TS4 needs a difficulty system.

"Nindigo;c-17339221" wrote:

"sam123;d-970036" wrote:
I hope you guys read the first paragraph!

"sam123;d-970036" wrote:
Okay I think most of us can agree this game is painfully easy so my suggestion is to add a difficulty system in the game. One mode can be the current mode of how the game is now however if you increase the difficulty you tend to have to work to unlock different types of features in the game. For example;

You say 'most of us', but you can really only speak for yourself. And 'painfully easy'? That's a personal opinion. Also, you already unlock stuff through careers and skilling up. Have you checked the list of in-game achievements as well?

I'm sorry, but I still disagree :)

I am speaking for myself and what I see when I read through the forums, comments on YT videos, and other media. I see many people stating that the game really is too easy. Have you seen many people complaining that the game is too hard? I have yet to see many of these types of comments... Having an OPTIONAL difficulty increase for players that want more challenge does not affect your game play at all. :)

"LiELF;c-17338945" wrote:

"invisiblgirl;c-17338887" wrote:

"Nindigo;c-17338825" wrote:
I disagree with OP.

The Sims is what you make it to be. You can impose all kinds of rules on your play to make it difficult - take on challenges and whatnot. Try a challenge on short lifespand, etc.

The Sims is like a virtual dollhouse. If you get bored playing, find a different game to test your limits. The Sims is not about difficulty. It's a game of creativity and living out ideas.

Exactly what I was thinking. One of the best things about S4 is being able to switch aspirations on the fly. You can always impose rules on yourself to make it more difficult - there is nothing stopping you from making a rule in your game that aspirations can't be changed. Just because a toddler or kid can take care of herself doesn't mean you have to play it that way - my parents spend most of their time teaching and caring for their toddlers, and they always help with homework and projects and have family meals together.

Will Wright imagined players as the director - it's not a game in which you cope with whatever the game throws at your Sim, but rather, a game in which you decide what to throw at your Sim.

This isn't quite correct. Will Wright's original intention for The Sims was to explore states of failure because it was more interesting and engaging than consistent success. The purpose of the actual gameplay was for the player to decide if they would allow Sim needs and aspirations to bottom out, resulting in Sims having breakdowns or dying, ...or if they would care for their needs and goals, resulting in happiness and fulfillment. It put the player in the position of a God. The entire premise was to put the fate of the Sims in the player's hands, and when you activated live mode, the game would creep towards failure without player intervention. And there were higher chances of random failure and disaster from unskilled Sims. The player creativity came mostly from build mode and the extra content, but the essence and the core of the actual gameplay was to simulate ultimate failure if left to its own devices. It was more about getting through life's obstacles and the struggle to succeed and meet fulfillment while confronting fears and failures, so when the player finally got their Sim to reach their end goal in their aspiration, there was a sense of accomplishment and reward. It was satisfying because it had challenge and purpose.

The game used to be a lot more than a simple virtual dollhouse of happiness. It used to be an actual game. The devolution of the series has led it to become more of the opposite of what it used to be; it's now a Utopia simulator with the option of failures that actually need to be more forced into happening, which is why people get bored all the time. The challenges and obstacles have been neutralized. It has completely lost its way from Will Wright's original design. And I'm not saying many people don't enjoy Sims 4 for what it is or are wrong for doing so, but it's definitely not the kind of game that Will Wright had intended.

“Instead of putting players in the role of Luke Skywalker, or Frodo Baggins, I'd rather put them in the role of George Lucas.” Will Wright.

It's never been a game to me - it's always been about telling stories through my Sims. In previous iterations, I used a number of mods to take out things that I found difficult or not suited to my storytelling. (For example, I always eliminated the requirement of making and keeping eight billion friends in order to get promoted. In S4, if you like that sort of challenge, you can try the 'Friend of the World' or serial-romance aspirations, or simply set a goal for your Sim to make a certain number of friends. Why does this have to be imposed on those of us who don't like that aspect of the game?)

That's what makes the Sims different from every other game - there are very few game-imposed requirements. You decide how to play, rather than the game making up scenarios for you to navigate. That's the difference between being the director and a role-player.

I loved the 3 active jobs in ‘Get To Work’ because I saw them as a type of challenge for my sims. I thought they did a good job with the work places too. But so many people complained that they weren’t sand box enough and next thing you know all the following active jobs became semi active. It was so disappointing to me. I don’t mind a work at home option. But, the active part just got so watered down it was no longer a challenge. I would have loved to see the politician job a real active career with a workplace. The same with the military career.

I also remember one of the older games where you had to buy your clothes and keep them in a dresser. You also bought jewelry and accessories. It not only made the game more of a challenge, but it actually made it more fun to make clothing stores. The same with babies and toddlers in the sims 2 you had to actually work at taking care of them, I enjoyed the challenge. You had to hire a babysitter if you worked. It was just so much more challenging.

Even strangerville was much less of a challenge than I was hoping it would be and I was sure hoping the military career would be an active one with a base.

"invisiblgirl;c-17339780" wrote:

"LiELF;c-17338945" wrote:

"invisiblgirl;c-17338887" wrote:

"Nindigo;c-17338825" wrote:
I disagree with OP.

The Sims is what you make it to be. You can impose all kinds of rules on your play to make it difficult - take on challenges and whatnot. Try a challenge on short lifespand, etc.

The Sims is like a virtual dollhouse. If you get bored playing, find a different game to test your limits. The Sims is not about difficulty. It's a game of creativity and living out ideas.

Exactly what I was thinking. One of the best things about S4 is being able to switch aspirations on the fly. You can always impose rules on yourself to make it more difficult - there is nothing stopping you from making a rule in your game that aspirations can't be changed. Just because a toddler or kid can take care of herself doesn't mean you have to play it that way - my parents spend most of their time teaching and caring for their toddlers, and they always help with homework and projects and have family meals together.

Will Wright imagined players as the director - it's not a game in which you cope with whatever the game throws at your Sim, but rather, a game in which you decide what to throw at your Sim.

This isn't quite correct. Will Wright's original intention for The Sims was to explore states of failure because it was more interesting and engaging than consistent success. The purpose of the actual gameplay was for the player to decide if they would allow Sim needs and aspirations to bottom out, resulting in Sims having breakdowns or dying, ...or if they would care for their needs and goals, resulting in happiness and fulfillment. It put the player in the position of a God. The entire premise was to put the fate of the Sims in the player's hands, and when you activated live mode, the game would creep towards failure without player intervention. And there were higher chances of random failure and disaster from unskilled Sims. The player creativity came mostly from build mode and the extra content, but the essence and the core of the actual gameplay was to simulate ultimate failure if left to its own devices. It was more about getting through life's obstacles and the struggle to succeed and meet fulfillment while confronting fears and failures, so when the player finally got their Sim to reach their end goal in their aspiration, there was a sense of accomplishment and reward. It was satisfying because it had challenge and purpose.

The game used to be a lot more than a simple virtual dollhouse of happiness. It used to be an actual game. The devolution of the series has led it to become more of the opposite of what it used to be; it's now a Utopia simulator with the option of failures that actually need to be more forced into happening, which is why people get bored all the time. The challenges and obstacles have been neutralized. It has completely lost its way from Will Wright's original design. And I'm not saying many people don't enjoy Sims 4 for what it is or are wrong for doing so, but it's definitely not the kind of game that Will Wright had intended.

“Instead of putting players in the role of Luke Skywalker, or Frodo Baggins, I'd rather put them in the role of George Lucas.” Will Wright.

It's never been a game to me - it's always been about telling stories through my Sims. In previous iterations, I used a number of mods to take out things that I found difficult or not suited to my storytelling. (For example, I always eliminated the requirement of making and keeping eight billion friends in order to get promoted. In S4, if you like that sort of challenge, you can try the 'Friend of the World' or serial-romance aspirations, or simply set a goal for your Sim to make a certain number of friends. Why does this have to be imposed on those of us who don't like that aspect of the game?)

That's what makes the Sims different from every other game - there are very few game-imposed requirements. You decide how to play, rather than the game making up scenarios for you to navigate. That's the difference between being the director and a role-player.

In theory, yes, we should be able to direct it as we wish. That's what we were able to do in past games (although I agree that the requirement to make a bazillion friends to network in order to get promoted was annoying) but the thing is, I'm not finding this to be true of Sims 4 at all, because this game is actually more restricting in the direction it wants the player to go. Sims 4 doesn't start off in a neutral state and let the player choose if they want to be benevolent or malicious toward the Sims. It begins with the scales already tipped in favor of consistent happiness. The default emotion is "Happy", not "Fine", as it should be. There are happy buffs just for having full needs. There are happy buffs just for eating a good meal. There are happy buffs for having a picture on the wall. This is what makes the game feel like it's in easy mode because a player just begins playing and there's hardly anything to strive for. It's like the game says, "Here's a bunch of happy buffs - you win! Happy Sims! That's what you want, right?"

But what if that's not the story I want to direct? If I want to play a lonely, gloomy Sim who lives in a mansion, the decoration buffs are going to make him happy. So I have to take all the decorations off the walls? Give him lousy furniture? I have to make sure that somehow his cooking never improves because that's going to make him happy too? And his needs can't be full? How does any of this even make sense? Why aren't these things in a neutral position, and buffs determined by the traits that the player gives them? This is why people want another play mode for the game. It is, by default, on "Happy" mode. That's not leaving the direction in the player's hands.

Here's another example. I have two Sims in Uni who are friends. One has a good reputation, is a goofball and genius, the other has a slightly bad reputation, is a mean genius, and they were out by the statue at night when a Sim from the opposing school came to deface the statue. I wanted to have them both yell at her and picked a fight, with the mean one escalating to violence. Well, the good one wandered off somewhere after yelling, which is fine, but after slinging insults with the mean one, as soon as my selected animation is done, the game controlled idle chit chat takes over and suddenly they're having a pleasant conversation and smiling at each other and building the relationship back into the positives. So I have to fight against the game to get my Sim to behave in accordance with the traits that I, the player, selected for her? That's baloney. I should be able to do it easily.

I've never seen so many players talk about boredom in reference to a Sims game as they do with Sims 4. There's definitely a reason for that. For anyone who wants actual drama in their gameplay, or obstacles, or challenge, it's a challenge in itself to get the game to play out that way. Even during the SimGuru Garage streams with Morgan trying to kill off Sims and display deviant play, you can see that she struggles to get something to happen and ends up having to force it because the game fights for it's Utopia. There's a complete lack of drama.

The game always pushes for happiness, success, friendship, and living without consequences. Many players like this, it's true. And I honestly do find ways to enjoy the game or I wouldn't be here. There are a lot of things I think are great about it. But I get frustrated with it on a regular basis and I have to agree with the OP that the base game could really have used some "difficulty" settings to make it more flexible for those who don't like to play "happily ever after". Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure that ship has sailed. Difficulty settings most likely would have had to be built into the base game before launch, so I don't think it's something we'll ever see.

I think it already can be very difficult depending on how you play. I tried mods but didn't like most of them, except a couple little ms sam ones I use to run a foster home and daycare in one save


Often I play a single aim with 6 or 7 babies and toddlers and it is hard haha but other times I just like to play easier files and just focus on one kid or something.

I do like that we can switch aspirations though and it's easy enough to not switch if people want to complete one at a time. More get to work style jobs would be great though

Real life is hard, full of challenge and death. I don't want that in my game. I like my utopia where everyone lives forever, happily ever after. When I want challenge, I create something like an ambitious elder with eight toddlers, starting out with $100, attending school to better herself while working to survive. Or I create internal rules, like charging my Sim money if they leave the lot. Or I create a hotheaded loner who wants a million friends but yells at everyone. Simply creating a household with seven pets presents plenty of challenges! Sims spend all their time cleaning up and trying to keep the pets from running away!

I agree that more active careers would be nice. I really enjoy them.

Playing families with pets, toddlers, kids and adults with careers is a challenge when you rotate through each family and you know you have to return to each household within four Sim days or your toddlers don't learn skills, the kids don't go to school and the adults don't advance in their careers while not being active. And the pets are sick or starving with full bladders. I use a mod that keeps househod funds at a realistic level by donating more to charity which raises their good reputation level. The biggest challenge for me, is trying to find workarounds for the glitches and bugs, or adding new gameplay, better personalities, and fixing bugs through the use of mods. I wish this use of mods wasn't needed in order to tweak the game into something I can be happy with. But it has become the way of things with Sims4.

I test my skill as a player by adding certain rules for myself. No extra money cheats, adding mods that only alter gameplay, fix bugs, or end irritations. And giving each family a lot to do and accomplish requires a lot of effort and thought, too. I take advantage of the vacation worlds even though it takes me out of my comfort zone when I am focused on reaching a certain promotion, skill level, or things have become stale and repititious in a certain household. I use mods that do away with certain buffs so keeping my Sims in a happy mood takes a bit of juggling. There are ways to make the game more of a challenge. The trick is finding what will make it a challenge for you. We cannot rely on the teams to make the game more complex and challenging. The past couple of packs proved that to be a fact. It is up to us, the players, to find new ways of playing in a way that adds difficulty and surprises. The fact we have an entire discussion on this forum devoted to mods clearly indicates EA is aware Sims4 needs help, and has made it easier for players to openly discuss mods and share how these mods changed their game. There are many player-created challenges that are fun to play, and can keep a player busy for weeks. I stopped expecting the teams to bring the kind of gameplay I would like to see, a long time ago. It isn't going to happen. Not in Sims4.

I use mods to make things more difficult, but it would be nice to have a lot of parameters I could change in-game.

Job payment, bill costs, new tuition costs, bill defaulting punishments, harder to make friends, harder to repair relationships, easier for sims to lose their job, etc.

Things like that could be edited on a save-per-save basis and keep the game fresh w/o mods.

"sam123;c-17339695" wrote:

I am speaking for myself and what I see when I read through the forums, comments on YT videos, and other media. I see many people stating that the game really is too easy. Have you seen many people complaining that the game is too hard? I have yet to see many of these types of comments... Having an OPTIONAL difficulty increase for players that want more challenge does not affect your game play at all. :)

Only a fraction of the total sum of Sims players can be found on these forums and social media. People who aren't complaining usually don't have a problem. How many are not complaining compared to how many are? You see "many" people stating the game is too easy? How many are we talking? Please don't pretend to be the voice of "many" unless you can back it up with solid fact. So many do this and it's so wrong.

I personally don't want a difficulty system of any kind. I think people need to get creative with the game as it is, or seek their challenges elsewhere. That's my opinion.

"invisiblgirl;c-17339780" wrote:

"LiELF;c-17338945" wrote:

"invisiblgirl;c-17338887" wrote:

"Nindigo;c-17338825" wrote:
I disagree with OP.

The Sims is what you make it to be. You can impose all kinds of rules on your play to make it difficult - take on challenges and whatnot. Try a challenge on short lifespand, etc.

The Sims is like a virtual dollhouse. If you get bored playing, find a different game to test your limits. The Sims is not about difficulty. It's a game of creativity and living out ideas.

Exactly what I was thinking. One of the best things about S4 is being able to switch aspirations on the fly. You can always impose rules on yourself to make it more difficult - there is nothing stopping you from making a rule in your game that aspirations can't be changed. Just because a toddler or kid can take care of herself doesn't mean you have to play it that way - my parents spend most of their time teaching and caring for their toddlers, and they always help with homework and projects and have family meals together.

Will Wright imagined players as the director - it's not a game in which you cope with whatever the game throws at your Sim, but rather, a game in which you decide what to throw at your Sim.

This isn't quite correct. Will Wright's original intention for The Sims was to explore states of failure because it was more interesting and engaging than consistent success. The purpose of the actual gameplay was for the player to decide if they would allow Sim needs and aspirations to bottom out, resulting in Sims having breakdowns or dying, ...or if they would care for their needs and goals, resulting in happiness and fulfillment. It put the player in the position of a God. The entire premise was to put the fate of the Sims in the player's hands, and when you activated live mode, the game would creep towards failure without player intervention. And there were higher chances of random failure and disaster from unskilled Sims. The player creativity came mostly from build mode and the extra content, but the essence and the core of the actual gameplay was to simulate ultimate failure if left to its own devices. It was more about getting through life's obstacles and the struggle to succeed and meet fulfillment while confronting fears and failures, so when the player finally got their Sim to reach their end goal in their aspiration, there was a sense of accomplishment and reward. It was satisfying because it had challenge and purpose.

The game used to be a lot more than a simple virtual dollhouse of happiness. It used to be an actual game. The devolution of the series has led it to become more of the opposite of what it used to be; it's now a Utopia simulator with the option of failures that actually need to be more forced into happening, which is why people get bored all the time. The challenges and obstacles have been neutralized. It has completely lost its way from Will Wright's original design. And I'm not saying many people don't enjoy Sims 4 for what it is or are wrong for doing so, but it's definitely not the kind of game that Will Wright had intended.

“Instead of putting players in the role of Luke Skywalker, or Frodo Baggins, I'd rather put them in the role of George Lucas.” Will Wright.

It's never been a game to me - it's always been about telling stories through my Sims. In previous iterations, I used a number of mods to take out things that I found difficult or not suited to my storytelling. (For example, I always eliminated the requirement of making and keeping eight billion friends in order to get promoted. In S4, if you like that sort of challenge, you can try the 'Friend of the World' or serial-romance aspirations, or simply set a goal for your Sim to make a certain number of friends. Why does this have to be imposed on those of us who don't like that aspect of the game?)

That's what makes the Sims different from every other game - there are very few game-imposed requirements. You decide how to play, rather than the game making up scenarios for you to navigate. That's the difference between being the director and a role-player.

Exactly; it was never meant to be a game game, it was supposed to be a sandbox. They started adding more and more goals as time went on to try and get more traditional players, I think. I get people wanting some games to be harder, and I hear it all the time (in Fallout, etc). It's just really not what the sims was ever supposed to be about (winning and all those little endorphin rushes). But yeah, unpredictability, more variety in how sims act so they're fun to put in different situations, and being surprised is what should be keeping the game interesting. Something closer to a good role playing game, maybe.