What Would Save The Sims For You?

Here's a current thread on Sims 5 features wanted.

https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/997710/sims-5-dealmakers-vs-dealbreakers/p1

I'd like it to be more like Sims 2 in gameplay and Sim personality and romance. I don't really want open world if it's going to be like Sims 3 because I play rotationally, which doesn't work well with it and I absolutely hate rabbit hole venues, so I'm fine with closed worlds. I'd like community lots to be more flexible though and capable of multi-purpose venues as well as an option to be partially residential. And definitely world editing tools because I can't stand that we can't change anything in Sims 4.

I also don't like CaST in CAS because it clutters, but I think it should be an external feature the way Sims 2 body shop was, so it doesn't bog down the game, but it should allow players to recolor anything in the game, maybe even have a mesh altering program to make our own CC and the ability to import into the game.

I just want the main focus to be back on Sim simulation and relationships and personality depth. Going back to the roots of the original game concept with expansive modern improvements would be awesome. Taking a step back into the direction of fictional satire where the player is "the Watcher" and not the center of the universe, and having the Sims be in their own fantastical universe instead of making the game about real life socio political trends, could make me quite happy.

@LiELF

I was interested in reading your comments. I don't play rotationally myself, so I'm genuinely interested in why an open world (Sims 3 style) adversely effected your playstyle. Was it the story progression?

"Kironide;c-18079382" wrote:
@LiELF

I was interested in reading your comments. I don't play rotationally myself, so I'm genuinely interested in why an open world (Sims 3 style) adversely effected your playstyle. Was it the story progression?

The SP was definitely a part of it. So to fully understand why I shy away from Sims 3's features so much, I'll just explain a little about my experience. Sorry if this is long...

I'm not sure when you started playing Sims 3 and if you're aware of this, but when the base game launched, there was no rotational play whatsoever. The game had been originally designed completely without it. So you can imagine my confusion after coming from Sims 2 where I had a bazillion households that I played, all who often bumped into each other in public venues and kept me entertained, to being suddenly forced to play just one. I remember starting over with a new Sim, trying to figure out what I was missing, talking to myself and thinking I just wasn't understanding the new UI, lol. I finally looked on the forums for information and saw several threads of other angry players discussing that it no longer existed. It was shocking to me because I had been so excited to start a new iteration and see how the game had been expanded. I tried it anyway, I wanted to give the game a fair chance, and I took my Sim out into the world and found a book store (If I remember right) where some sims were gathering so I stopped to interact with them. I liked the expanded conversations with other Sims. But then I sent my Sim into the shop and they disappeared and I sat there moving the mouse around, looking for them, wondering why I couldn't see them, what was I doing wrong? It's funny to me now, but I was starting to nerd rage pretty badly, lol. I didn't understand the rabbit hole venues or why community lots were suddenly unplayable. And it seemed to take forever for my Sim to walk all the way back home while getting hungrier and sleepier and I got annoyed at the distance too. It was an overall bad experience for me, I felt like the game had nothing in it, nothing to do, so after a couple of attempts, I closed down the game for good and went back to Sims 2.

Whenever a new pack released I got interested again and retried the base game but just didn't like it. It was sad because I absolutely loved the EP themes. When rotational play was added I tried again, attempting to play with two separate households in the game, but it was so unintuitive and clunky and I couldn't click on the other household at all or find my other Sim and the world was so huge it was its own obstacle. I tried playing the game again a couple of years ago, even picked up some of the EPs I wanted when I found them for $5 each, but Into the Future glitched on a quest and I couldn't complete it, I still couldn't find my other Sim, and the nightclubs were empty except for one Fairy and the staff. I shut it down after 16 hours of play. It's just not my game. I'll probably try again because I want to find a way to like it and play it, with all of the awesome packs and more interesting Sims (than Sims 4), but I don't know if it'll ever stick. Also, I hate the store and the need for "Sim Points" so the principle of forcing people to overspend just to get the extra content they want, rubbed me the wrong way, too.

So anyway, I just get filled with a little trepidation when I see mention of Sims 3 mechanics because I just don't like them or the general base game design. It doesn't mean that modern technology can't improve them of course, and do them differently, and it probably would, but I don't really have the faith in it, especially after the way Sims 4 was treated and released. I hate to be so negative about it, but I just feel like the franchise has gone in crazy directions that didn't intuitively follow a natural progression of the early games. It's kind of like how I feel about the Alien movies; the first two were masterpieces but then creators got all artsy and took liberties and stopped really following the formula so the later ones don't make as much sense, they're missing the heart and soul of why the series was awesome in the first place.

In the end, I don't think it will matter much for me at this point what they do with Sims 5, because I'm not planning to move forward anyway. The game has changed too much, so I think I'm just going to collect my favorite mods and when Sims 4 is no longer developing I'll load it up with my own preferences of customized craziness, lol. :)

@LiELF

Thank you so much for taking the time to explain. I myself started playing the Sims with Sims 2, but I only had a few packs and I didn't play rotationally, so no I wasn't aware of that effect in Sims 3. I became a true fan in the Sims 3 era buying all the packs and learning the lore. I've always played my own stories, often supernatural, but not always and I wasn't even really aware of rotational playstyle until later.

I can certainly empathise with your frustration however as I have had similar feelings about significant changes made to games that have removed features that I had previously loved to play.

And incidentally the first two alien films just happen to be two of my favourite films, because they are so raw and honest, characteristics that the later films definitely lack. I can also understand your feelings about the Sims 5 too. It isn't looking good is it? Thank you again for sharing.

In my opinion, the franchise needs to move on and find a new good ground to stand on. The Sims 5 needs a stable engine which they can build upon. We can't stay stuck in the past and try to catch up to the older games.

It feels like both Maxis and the community want everything in The Sims 4 (preferably everything that has been in the older games). That's never going to be possible, it's a game, it has limitations, it can only do what it was built to do. Turns out that it does CAS, Emotions, Relationships and Build/Buy mode pretty well. But it's not so great when it comes to doing things from the old games, making things like ladders and bicycles was apparently a coding nightmare. It was not built for it.

Better to focus on whatever this generation does well, and try to expand on it. Then move on to a new generation and work with that. The next game will have other strengths and weaknesses, maybe it will do ladders and bicycles better? But instead struggle with relationships and CAS? Who knows?

Personally, I feel that this generation has run out, and we need to move on to a new generation and develop new foundations that we can build upon. We can't look back at 10-20 year old sims games and long for that to be somehow redone in the Sims4.

Sometimes new stuff turns out great, sometimes it turns out bad. But I am not in favor of sticking with the old for as long as possible until it crumbles after 10 years of spaghetti code and technical debt.

"logion;c-18079876" wrote:
In my opinion, the franchise needs to move on and find a new good ground to stand on. The Sims 5 needs a stable engine which they can build upon. We can't stay stuck in the past and try to catch up to the older games.

It feels like both Maxis and the community want everything in The Sims 4 (preferably everything that has been in the older games). That's never going to be possible, it's a game, it has limitations, it can only do what it was built to do. Turns out that it does CAS, Emotions, Relationships and Build/Buy mode pretty well. But it's not so great when it comes to doing things from the old games, making things like ladders and bicycles was apparently a coding nightmare. It was not built for it.

Better to focus on whatever this generation does well, and try to expand on it. Then move on to a new generation and work with that. The next game will have other strengths and weaknesses, maybe it will do ladders and bicycles better? But instead struggle with relationships and CAS? Who knows?

Personally, I feel that this generation has run out, and we need to move on to a new generation and develop new foundations that we can build upon. We can't look back at 10-20 year old sims games and long for that to be somehow redone in the Sims4.

Sometimes new stuff turns out great, sometimes it turns out bad. But I am not in favor of sticking with the old for as long as possible until it crumbles after 10 years of spaghetti code and technical debt.

It is a balancing act and some of those old features may do a new version good for me. I read a lot of people asking for more space and more tools such creating their own neighborhood which was available before it was deleted. Some wanted to make their items their own outside of the primary colors and that too was available and that too was deleted. Some cannot do w/o some old features especially when the creativity level is lowered. now more can be done than what was available back in 2014 and to say one can't do more without at trying to do so for me make it look like one does not want to move to the next level and use what technology is available today and this where challenge everything comes into play instead come half stepping. EA/Maxis does not tweak or use what is available today other than going to 64 bit and as far as Sims 4 goes Imo it is a little too late to take Sims 4 to the next level so must wait to the next version or until another developer does it. What new features can be brought to Sims 5? you can evolve a program for so long, and even if some of the features that allowed me more creative control than what Sims 4 could possibly have may breathe new life into a new version for mixture of new and old has been a staple of other franchises and also tweaking and fixing what is wrong is also essential as well going outside of the box sometimes.

"Kironide;c-18079860" wrote:
@LiELF

Thank you so much for taking the time to explain. I myself started playing the Sims with Sims 2, but I only had a few packs and I didn't play rotationally, so no I wasn't aware of that effect in Sims 3. I became a true fan in the Sims 3 era buying all the packs and learning the lore. I've always played my own stories, often supernatural, but not always and I wasn't even really aware of rotational playstyle until later.

I can certainly empathise with your frustration however as I have had similar feelings about significant changes made to games that have removed features that I had previously loved to play.

And incidentally the first two alien films just happen to be two of my favourite films, because they are so raw and honest, characteristics that the later films definitely lack. I can also understand your feelings about the Sims 5 too. It isn't looking good is it? Thank you again for sharing.

@Kironide Thank you for giving me a chance to explain my perspective and for being understanding, I truly appreciate it. <3

It's also lovely to meet another Alien fan!

For the developers to go back to the fundamental concepts and vision that made the game great in the first place, not wildly chase every fad and fancy that comes along. There is a reason the early games still have passionate followers, and it's not the mechanics.

I agree with most of the comments here. But there's something we can't ignore in previous versions of The Sims. There was immersion, even with all the flaws, code limitations, adaptations by the players, there was always something new to try. I don't know how many people here actually played The Sims 2 or just watched videos. But there were unique interactions, so many that you could easily miss them, even playing every day. The Sims 4 has indeed brought improvements, especially in construction and CAS, but what I hear from most players is that they get bored right after starting the game. Isn't it strange that most The Sims 4 Youtubers spend more time on their channels bringing new sims or new builds than new types of gameplay? Isn't it strange that there are always the same "trend" of challenges or scenarios to play in The Sims 4? For a game that is constantly being updated it still feels ridiculously robotic and antiquated in AI. I mean, which of you go to a community lot or a party and really feel immersed? I don't know, but in my gameplay I ALWAYS turn down calls to meetings or events, because in them there is absolutely the same thing going on. My game urgently needs more drama. And when I say drama, I mean please bring our Sims to life. More interactions, more animations, more random events, more consequences of our actions (No text bubbles with the same messages), more places to explore, more secrets, more body expressions, more illnesses, more hobbies, more interactive and functional objects, more details , more customization, more IMMERSION.

If we can't have so many new things improved in gameplay, at least bring the good old features back. It's the least they can do to try to fix this mess in The Sims 4.