Would you like to have more trait slots for your Sim?

"JoAnne65;c-17410872" wrote:

"Naus;c-17410807" wrote:
Only for roleplaying reasons. The way traits are coded in The Sims 4, they don't really make a difference in their personality. For traits to truly affect the game the way they do in TS3, they have to be accounted for in EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF CODE.

This what The Sims 3 does, every interaction and situation in-game has one or multiple checks for appropriate traits.

Something as simple as the "pillow fight" interaction checks if any of the Sims involved has the "Proper" trait before deciding whether the Sim is going to accept or reject the interaction:
https://i.imgur.com/m9chjvT.png

The crazy thing is that "Pillow Fight" is a Generations interaction, and Proper is a Supernatural trait. So they went back to this interaction and modified it to add this check and make the Proper trait more meaningful. There are countless of examples like this.

This is why personalities in The Sims 3 are so unique. Because they took the time to write the necessary code to make traits matter and the system was 100% designed around traits.

The Sims 4 in contrast is designed around EMOTIONS. The problem is that there are only 16 emotions, and most of the time Sims are either happy, angry, sad or tense. So you end up with Sims that are carbon copies of each other. Traits in The Sims 4 do absolutely nothing more than regulate the rate at which Sims gain certain skills, the default emotions, and maybe add one or two interactions. They don't even affect autonomy that much, as I tested myself here.

I don’t even think traits influence emotions in any way do they? Like, I could imagine a friendly person wouldn’t get angry so easily, but I believe there’s no difference in that respect. The emotion system is exactly the same for a sim with friendly traits as it is for a mean or an evil sim? Or is there some influence in that respect?

Actually, they do - 'loner' Sims get tense around crowds or meeting new people. 'Outdoors lover' Sims don't get tense during thunderstorms. Loner Sims are also more likely to get embarrassed. 'Family oriented' Sims get sad when they don't interact enough with family. Sometimes these emotions are overridden by emotions from other things, but not all the time.

That said, I would like traits to have more influence - a heavier weight in comparison to, say, a painting. That's a matter of tuning - there are some objects that specificially are meant to influence emotions, such as emotional paintings, and they should have a heftier weight when turned on. Random objects should have a very small influence in comparison to traits.

"invisiblgirl;c-17410996" wrote:

"JoAnne65;c-17410872" wrote:

"Naus;c-17410807" wrote:
Only for roleplaying reasons. The way traits are coded in The Sims 4, they don't really make a difference in their personality. For traits to truly affect the game the way they do in TS3, they have to be accounted for in EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF CODE.

This what The Sims 3 does, every interaction and situation in-game has one or multiple checks for appropriate traits.

Something as simple as the "pillow fight" interaction checks if any of the Sims involved has the "Proper" trait before deciding whether the Sim is going to accept or reject the interaction:
https://i.imgur.com/m9chjvT.png

The crazy thing is that "Pillow Fight" is a Generations interaction, and Proper is a Supernatural trait. So they went back to this interaction and modified it to add this check and make the Proper trait more meaningful. There are countless of examples like this.

This is why personalities in The Sims 3 are so unique. Because they took the time to write the necessary code to make traits matter and the system was 100% designed around traits.

The Sims 4 in contrast is designed around EMOTIONS. The problem is that there are only 16 emotions, and most of the time Sims are either happy, angry, sad or tense. So you end up with Sims that are carbon copies of each other. Traits in The Sims 4 do absolutely nothing more than regulate the rate at which Sims gain certain skills, the default emotions, and maybe add one or two interactions. They don't even affect autonomy that much, as I tested myself here.

I don’t even think traits influence emotions in any way do they? Like, I could imagine a friendly person wouldn’t get angry so easily, but I believe there’s no difference in that respect. The emotion system is exactly the same for a sim with friendly traits as it is for a mean or an evil sim? Or is there some influence in that respect?

Actually, they do - 'loner' Sims get tense around crowds or meeting new people. 'Outdoors lover' Sims don't get tense during thunderstorms. Loner Sims are also more likely to get embarrassed. 'Family oriented' Sims get sad when they don't interact enough with family. Sometimes these emotions are overridden by emotions from other things, but not all the time.

That said, I would like traits to have more influence - a heavier weight in comparison to, say, a painting. That's a matter of tuning - there are some objects that specificially are meant to influence emotions, such as emotional paintings, and they should have a heftier weight when turned on. Random objects should have a very small influence in comparison to traits.

That’s indeed what I meant. It’s good at least there is some connection then. And yes, I agree with the rest.

I'ld like to have more slots but traits need to matter. Otherwise it won't mean nothing in the game.

I felt Sims 3 was great as far as how many traits are allowed for each life state and wouldn't mind that system returning for 4, but I agree with everyone saying that such a change wouldn't amount to much given how uninspired the traits are in 4.

One example I always used of a good trait was hothead because of all the little things that hothead sims get angry over which makes them feel distinct from other sims, an example being them getting angry instead of happy with the first snow of the year. Now, I don't know if I imagined that response from my sims (entirely possible, my imagination has a tendency of getting ahead of me, lol), if it was from a mod or if this was simply changed, but I've recently noticed that hothead sims become happy with the first snow of the year, just like every other sim. I know it's silly to be so affected by a mere game but I am not exaggerating when I say I was crestfallen. It felt like a slap in the face, like one of the few genuinely good, fun, unique things in this game was yet again dumbed down for no apparent reason. This is just one less reason for me to care about the hothead trait, or any other trait for that matter.

We DESPERATELY need a trait overhaul. I've been looking more into Sims 2 and the differences in how sims with different personality traits acted and reacted. They had real personalities and, dare I say, EMOTIONS, and those little differences went a LONG way towards differentiating each sim in a meaningful way. Things like shy sims getting upset at having to make first contact with another sim, or neat sims actually being excited and happy at the prospect of cleaning a dirty toilet. For all the talk of "emotions" and smarter sims, we have nothing to show for that in Sims 4.

I'd say emotions are actually part of the problem. It isn't that I want them gone, but they take too much priority in determining how a sim behaves. In real life, two people may express anger or joy in radically different ways. A truly "good" person wouldn't dare kick their neighbor's trash can over when angry because they don't want to burden that person or pollute the environment, while a really "mean" person may be more inclined to playfully (or maliciously) provoke someone when happy than have a pleasant conversation with them. Emotions should work with traits to define the sim, not override them. If anything, traits should take priority over emotions as they are supposed to represent the sim on a deeper level from the emotions that ALL sims experiences.

I guess this was all just a long-winded way to say, yes, I want more trait slots, but I'd prefer if we had improved traits first.

Can't vote as there's not an option that fits me.

I only want more if they change the code to give personalities more strength than they do now. Right now emotions just overpower personality traits and there isn't much difference between Sims - even those with opposite traits. Otherwise there's no point in giving more slots.

3 is the same as 5 slots if the emotions are just going to be in control of behavior.

I'd like 5 traits. I'd be ok with adding traits through behavior.