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megastug's avatar
megastug
3 years ago

Re: Hybrid implementation (Regen and boost) is incorrect and bugged in several ways

Handbrake disabling the boost is conformant to the regulation, I believe.

I don't quite understand why the regulation says 30% throttle is allowed, and the game says 10% (after patch). Did the regulation change?

I agree that the car is very difficult to drive while staying under that 70% throttle mark, it feels like the throttle doesn't work linearly, i.e. the first half of throttle movement isn't very effective and the car only accelerates properly above the 70% throttle mark.

Maybe it's a problem with the pedals (and triggers) used for gaming behaving differently from a real rally car's throttle pedal.

@Codemasters: Please test this with

a) a cheap Logitech pedal set

b) a gamepad's trigger

and see if it's behaving as intended?

Perhaps they're testing with some super expensive simracing gear, which most players probably don't have.

14 Replies

  • bn880's avatar
    bn880
    3 years ago
    @megastug wrote:

    Handbrake disabling the boost is conformant to the regulation, I believe.

    I don't quite understand why the regulation says 30% throttle is allowed, and the game says 10% (after patch). Did the regulation change?

    Why do you believe that on the handbrake, it's not in the FIA PDF.

    The regulation has not changed on 30%, that is in the PDF and in 2023 WRC footage.

  • EvolutionXJ's avatar
    EvolutionXJ
    3 years ago

    It is in the pdf. Specifically, in the valid regen, it says

    The handbrake can be used as an input to disable hybrid
    torque.

    I attached an image with that section highlight

  • bn880's avatar
    bn880
    3 years ago
    @EvolutionXJ wrote:

    It is in the pdf. Specifically, in the valid regen, it says

    The handbrake can be used as an input to disable hybrid
    torque.

    I attached an image with that section highlight

    That's misinterpretation.  That is under the regen section, so it is talking about braking torque of the hybrid motor.   And also it says "CAN".  This is very specific wording in regulations, even those by the FIA, it would be optional for a team.

  • 5852d265035b381's avatar
    5852d265035b381
    3 years ago
    @bn880 wrote:
    @EvolutionXJ wrote:

    It is in the pdf. Specifically, in the valid regen, it says

    The handbrake can be used as an input to disable hybrid
    torque.

    I attached an image with that section highlight

    That's misinterpretation.  That is under the regen section, so it is talking about braking torque of the hybrid motor.   And also it says "CAN".  This is very specific wording in regulations, even those by the FIA, it would be optional for a team.

    You are correct. The handbrake doesn't have anything to do with losing earned boost or valid regen. However, teams could design their cars to stop commanding torque from the hybrid system when the hand brake is pulled. It isn't required, but some teams or drivers may want to do that to make the cars easier to drive. The FIA rules specify exactly which sensors and inputs teams are allowed to use to determine how much torque is output from the hybrid system's electric motor. This section is there to say that a team is able to use handbrake as an input to their software that determines hybrid torque command if they want to.

    With that in mind, Codemasters can choose their hybrid implementation to stop commanding hybrid boost and regen with the handbrake is pulled if they want to. Most people don't pull the handbrake with the accelerator pedal over 70% anyway. But pulling the handbrake should not make you lose remaining boost energy or have an impact on valid regen. 

  • Peter_Mathen's avatar
    Peter_Mathen
    Rising Scout
    3 years ago

    I tried yesterday the WRC1 cars after watching the Japan Rally, but the implementation of boost and regen is buggy and not conform to regulation.

    The joke to note in the patch notes that Devs have changed to 10% braking power allowed for regen if the real regulation says 30% is unbelievable.

    I've already added the link to the official FIA PDF regulation document for 2023. 

    The Devs could also watch a onboard stage to see that the boost is available in nearly each corner because of the fast regen with low brake pressure and not how it's it's implemented in the game.

  • EA_Groguet's avatar
    EA_Groguet
    Icon for Community Manager rankCommunity Manager
    3 years ago

    Hey there,

    Thank you all for your report and your feedback. This issue has been raised and it is being investigated by the Game Team. I will update you on this thread as soon as I have more info.

    -Groguet

  • 5852d265035b381's avatar
    5852d265035b381
    3 years ago

    I noticed the following fix listed in the 1.4.0 patch notes coming out on the 14th:

    "Fixed an issue on WRC cars in which hybrid deployment would cancel when throttle was released below boost threshold point, instead of when throttle input reaches 0%."

    This is an improvement and I am thankful for it, but it is still incorrect. Hybrid deployment should only be cancelled when you start to regen, not just because you lifted off the throttle pedal. The simplest implementation of this would be to always regen when FIA conditions allow for it: throttle input is less than 30% "and" the brake pedal is applied (front brake pressure over 5BAR, which is very little). Even this isn't completely accurate because real teams don't have to regen when the brake pedal is applied, so you can technically lift off the accelerator pedal and press the brake pedal in a real car and not cancel your hybrid deployment sometimes as long as your ECU software didn't start to regen. This is maybe a little advanced for this game, but WRC Generations has this modeled and you have to brake harder to start regen when you have a lot of your hybrid boost remaining. Even with the simple implementation where you always regen when accelerator input is less than 30% and brake pedal is applied, you should still be able to use some of your hybrid deployment, lift completely off the accelerator pedal, then go back and use more hybrid deployment as long as you don't press the brake pedal while you are lifted off the accelerator pedal. The exception to this is for the initial launch hybrid boost, which will get cancelled when accelerator pedal is less than 30% or the brake pedal is applied whether you regen or not.

  • bn880's avatar
    bn880
    3 years ago

    Yes indeed, there remain many issues with it.  Not the least is control of boost level past the 70%, the gutted engines below 70% throttle (so you can delay deployment)

    the amount of brake pressure required to even start regen in the game, and so on.  The points are on the first page.

    This should be fixed/implemented to just work as close to the real thing as possible, It's not really some massive and super expensive challenge, and there should be some authenticity to the driving.

  • StingerMarc's avatar
    StingerMarc
    3 years ago
    @EA_Groguet wrote:

    Hey there,

    Thank you all for your report and your feedback. This issue has been raised and it is being investigated by the Game Team. I will update you on this thread as soon as I have more info.

    -Groguet

    Please also fix the problem where sequential transmission cars have some bizarre clutch behaviour (for launch) that seems to be muddled together with the wrong implementation of how the hybrid cars should work.

    The manual transmission/H-pattern cars have no fundamental programming error--they just suffer from the game-wide poor implementation of dead zones, saturation and controller calibration.

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