Forum Discussion

Re: Another MnK vs Controller thread (Developer addresses the issue)

I play on PC using MnK and also own both Xbox Elite 1 and 2 wireless controllers but haven't really bothered using them at all. I have also played on console, mainly Playstation in the 1990s and 2000s, using a controller. Before that we used home computers such as the Commodore or you played on cabinets in arcades (hence 'arcade' games). And at the beginning there were simple console type things like Atari and Binatone for playing tennis on your TV. But never one against the other.

Now you can play on your console versus PC players. Which is fine when you're equal. But when you have aim-assist against someone who doesn't it is not fair. In Apex Legends you don't even have equal aim-asisst between controller users on PC and consoles. There's not even an attempt at fairness. Which I believe is an American trait of some kind. Fairplay doesn't seem to either matter or even be a concept over there.

I hate this situation with aim-assist versus MnK, though. I hate the injustice of having no choice but to play against a weaker opponent who has been artificially boosted to be able to beat me. It is completely unethical. It also causes technical problems.

When a player using aim-assist is shooting me, my ability to move my player is sometimes affected. It's as though the control I have over my players causes conflict with the predictive compenent of aim-assist. I am also shot behind cover because of aim-assist for the same reason. It is essentially an aimbot. Impervious to flaws. Nobody who has played on PC over the last 15 years can tell me that there is any objective difference other than the strength it is set at. In Apex the console aim-assist is 60%. If it was 100% it would be a total aimbot without doubt.

So when somebody says: "honestly it's simple when roller player destroys an MNK player with whatever luck, skills, aim, or movement it's always the AA to blame." it is a fact that aim assist always helps you when you have it. Because aim assist is always on or off. So when you defeat an opponent using aim-assist some of the credit must always go to the system. This is not true of MnK. When you kill someone using MnK all the work is done by the player leaving zero room for any doubt. If a player who uses MnK has problems with lag it can be very difficult to hit a target. With aim-assist it's not necessarily a problem because it will do a lot of the work for you as the system will still predict perfectly.

This is the problem with aim-assist. It is machine perfection versus human imperfection. It is not fair and it is an ongoing insult to pretend it is. I can only assume that the incentives to maintain this stupid situation are financial for EA. Or that somebody in that company actually thinks that console players are somehow victims of MnK players. It is the most braindead thing outside of loot boxes quite frankly.

9 Replies

  • @warslag I've always supported keeping systems separate and I can see your frustration of losing to a mechanic unavailable to you. Most of that is just PC elitist nonsense though. I don't believe there can be a fair fight between controllers and M/KB with or without Aim Assist given the difference in how the two can potentially perform is still too great.

    If you think removing Aim Assist will balance the playing field then you're another poster willing to ignore all the advantages on your side and claim while claiming every win you have "fair." If you support separating the input devices then I'm with you. Apparently the PC crowd has been suffering for a while but I don't know how the majority of PC players really feel. Only people who complain come here so there will always be biased answers.

  • @warslag MnK uses aim assist as well - 0.4 to be exact. That pretty much throws your whole statement out the window. You know... "This is not true of MnK. When you kill someone using MnK all the work is done by the player leaving zero room for any doubt." - that part.
  • @NickBeam27  that is incorrect, there is no aim assist for mouse. If you are referring to the exploit by using a controller while playing on MnK thats something else.

    Or perhaps you are confusing the aim assist on controller on PC and think mouse actually has it too. But no that is not the case - and yes Warslag statement still holds true.

  • NickBeam27's avatar
    NickBeam27
    3 years ago
    @NitromethaneAP I was always under the belief that PC was pre-set to 0.4.
    However if I am wrong than I apologize and yes, than Warslag statement would be accurate.
    My apologies again.
  • pandareno1999's avatar
    pandareno1999
    Hero+
    3 years ago

    Sounds like my previous effort to turn this to an informed discussion has perhaps gone unnoticed.  Here it is again.  Please consider giving it a view.

  • Sand_spitter's avatar
    Sand_spitter
    3 years ago

    @pandareno1999Nice vid, basically covered everything. Point is, the one clip rates are almost double of that for mouse. I think that's what a lot of people are losing their minds over. *Only way to fix this is to split the lobbies*. End of discussion. When I see people arguing about inputs being unfair/better/worse, I see it similar to someone in the Marines arguing with someone in the Navy about who does a better job. The argument itself is brain dead and spawns out of pure ego.

  • Sand_spitter's avatar
    Sand_spitter
    3 years ago
    @Sand_spitter Something that just came to mind...I wonder how players would feel about aa being slightly lowered up close and slightly boosted at range? If the problem is indeed cqc and the limitation of the controller being long range I would actually like to see what this could do. I'd still say just split the lobbies 1st, but it would satisfy my curiosity just to see if that wasn't an option.
  • pandareno1999's avatar
    pandareno1999
    Hero+
    3 years ago

    @Sand_spitter

    I get the privilege of not really caring all that much, because I play on console. Simply put, it's not my problem! You are absolutely correct - as long as there are mixed inputs in PC lobbies, there will always be arguments and an inherent sense of unfairness. But I also believe that Respawn has made it abundantly clear that they have no intention of changing this. They have moved in the opposite direction, arranaging things so that even console players can participate in competitive play.

    Where this leaves us? I dunno. All that I really care about in this thread is that people present their opinions based on being informed of how these things work, instead of based on what X streamer says, or misconceptions repeated online until they become "facts" to the average player who does not take effort to inform themselves.  I mean, somewhere back there, someone said that controller needs aim assist because MnK has an advantage in point blank encounters. 

    Cheers, man! I do wish that you could opt of out cross play and mixed input lobbies. It seems the fairest solution to me.  But it's not going to be a reality as far as I can see.

  • Sand_spitter's avatar
    Sand_spitter
    3 years ago
    @pandareno1999 LOL no opt out needed, but thanks, I'm on console too. I played on PC for some time too, with both mouse and controller, but just gave up on that dream...that platform was pure hell, laser beam heaven that I've never seen in a console lobby ever. Once you reach a certain level it's game over. Console is more forgiving. But thx anyway 😉

    I think another thing that would help solve the issue is having exclusive pro leagues / competitions for games. Console / controller only and pc / mouse only competitions. I don't even know of one major console only comp for a major game, all the money is put into PC so it's no wonder that the talented controller players are feeling left out and are joining pc teams as a result. I think everyone would be happier this way and might even grow their idea.