Re: Tap Strafe

https://medium.com/@swaysd0/lurch-and-tap-strafing-4b17ff63621e

From the last word we got the other week from Jay Biebs, it sounds like the removal of tap strafing is still in the works, just proving tricky to execute.  The solution by removing ability to bid scroll wheel?  On the face of it, it seems a simple solution.  I suspect that, were it that simple, it'd obviously already have been done and we wouldn't still be talking about it.   I have forgotten what the argument was against disallowing scroll wheel bindings, but I remember it being convincing enough.  I'll leave that bit to your own google searching.  Cheers!

If someone knows reason behind not simply removing ability to bind forward move on scroll wheel, then leave a comment, or link below.

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@SlivPTS wrote:
@Cheese9Man"it messed up the whole movement aspect of the engine/game."
why not simply disallow bind forward move on scroll wheel? It will not break anything.

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Then you merge from origin to steam and rebind it there.... or rebind your mousewheel in windows and go from there.

If you are to remove tap strafe you need to remove the move not the bind, but to remove the move that messed up the entire movement code of the apex engine so they decided not to touch it as cheese here says.

@ZkepzThey can fix problem in many ways. Not always hardest way is best way.

I hope they understand that longer it will take to remove tap-strafe = more negative backlash will be. To me it's weird that it takes so long.

Also they can check for scroll wheel input when strafing and ignore strafe when scroll wheel input is detected.

It can be as simple as:

void AirMovement()
if(scrollWheelInput != 0) return;
//streafe movement code here

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@SlivPTS wrote:

@ZkepzThey can fix problem in many ways. Not always hardest way is best way.

I hope they understand that longer it will take to remove tap-strafe = more negative backlash will be. To me it's weird that it takes so long.

Also they can check for scroll wheel input when strafing and ignore strafe when scroll wheel input is detected.

It can be as simple as:

void AirMovement()
if(scrollWheelInput != 0) return;
//streafe movement code here

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You havent done much coding have you :D

In your case if you use scrollwheel for instance to shift weapons like the default is, then while shifting weapons you cant move.. Also if that code is in the game it can only detect mappings done by the game, but not mappings done by mouse providers, steam and so forth. Remember when the mapping is executed outside Apex apex sees a tapped w not scrollwheel.

Its not that easy, and believe you me, I'm a chief architect and been a professional coder for 30 years next year, its never as easy as it looks, especially in complex state engines a small change can break down the entire thing. And the thing is, if they get it wrong Apex will be a desert.

I don't get this issue people have with tap strafe, if your on PC and use MnK you just sweated hard enough to meet them and it means you need to practice your aim, git gud they did when they progressed. If your'e on controller learn and tune your aim assist to get what you need and practice and you'll smoke them. I don't have a single issue with tap strafers at all, 99% of them just make themselves easier to hit, and you always have the customary 1%er who is really good that make it harder to hit for 1 single maneuver in the fight until you land your first bullet and they are slowed like the rest.

Steam can map scrollwheel, amongst other things steam can map for controller to access tap strafe. My mouse provider let me remap everything on my mouse for instance mousewheel to be w. Apex legends cant see the difference it reads the hid. Also making a small thing to give hid input from scrollwheel wouldnt take more then a few minutes for a coder for the people who dont have the options to remap outside Apex.

And the state engine dont have a spesific block to discern strafe or tap strafe, the entire move is a side-effect so its outside of code control.

If you for instance define strafe as hitting a and d, ok then you cant strafe while shifting from your flatty to mastif (shifting weapon means you stop and stand still, youre dead) and that is for people not using tap strafes. Its been done actual tests with actual people on an actual server to try different ways of stopping the tapstrafe and its proven extremely hard.

Sidenote: many people shift weapons on 1,2,3, ok try check how many percentage that is, ill promise you most use scrollwheel today as it has become some sort of defacto standard in misc shooters. Btw do you know why some people spend thousands and thousands of hours in some games, I am soon over the noob mark in Apex - just passed 1800 hours and soon claiming the 2K mark, its one reason and one reason only, I can still progress, there is always something new to master. If that complexity is removed from the game i do think it loose its edge against other titles, today there is several ways of becoming insane in this game, insane aim, insane movement, insane placement or a combination of the 3 - this is what makes apex ahead of the curve on the rest of the titles in the category, loosing one of them and they compete at the same level as the rest, this is why Respawn is very very careful around this, they are fully aware of why they are no1.

I think this is a guide from 2017:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=861113264

Also you should check the tapstrafe binding for controller on steam:

https://www.reddit.com/r/apexlegends/comments/phl2bt/yes_you_can_tap_strafe_on_controller_no_excuses/

I use origin myself so just picked some quick googles for rebinding mnk and controller there were hundreds of hits.

I mean outside of Apex, im sure some hw can aswell havent researched but for sure drivers and software can and you been able to for many many years. On console however there are limits to what you can do with the HIDs without having a strikepack or some hardware to help you. I just mentioned steam spesifically since you got a full guide how to configure a controller for tapstrafing in Apex if you use steam. There is a myriad of alternatives to go around that simple scrollwheel test inside apex 😉

read my previous posts wher I explain in detail why mousewheel check wont work.

Yes I worked on online games for a long time but not professionally, lately I only made safe games for my daughter until she got old enough to join the online community, now I am making support systems for deployment of autonomous vehicles and smart infrastructure systems. Medical diagnosis born nerd, going to die nerd.

Edit: Comment on your simplification. A strafe is defined as movement left right left right to make yourself harder to hit, tap strafe is named because you can strafe one direction while slide jumping, so what you do is hols a or d while hitting multiple forward, to utilize one of the features of the engine which is to give direction boost forward on initiation (a lot of movement is based on this exact feature, like standing still and initiating a side slide when fighting which you learn quite early.) so what happens restricting mousewheel for tap strafe like you define will nerf normal strafe as its the same criteria. For the game engine to simulate movement and physics these are normaly done outside of the update loop (perhaps in their own thread even) fro the character and suddenly you got a complex mess to handle when it comes to how to stop that tap strafe, and this is also why the features of the common movement have side effects that is possible to use to create new movement tech like tap strafe for instance, its not a simple issue.

Ok that was the technical discussion of it. However how big is really the problem inside the game, I played shitloads with PC when on console I had no issues with tap strafers at that point, I played only on PC after moving to PC with a controller, still no issue. Now I play PC with MnK and yes I have a bit more issue with the 1% since I am not yet fully proficient with the snap and can overdo it a bit (too long dependant on the aim assist, guilty as charged, but that is on me). Yes I matchmake with diamond and some masters and occationally preds (my sky looks scary) so pretty much 80% of my lobby tap strafe in pubs. I dont tap strafe in fights, I use it to keep flow when running from point to point because I basically suck at it under preasure and I dont really think I need it to win fights, but its nice to be able to adjust your angle when sliding down these insane slopes in SP without stopping and walkin, it just gets clunky instead of flowy and pleasant. Only thing I think they could address is the jump pad strafe which is a bit nasty, that one makes so its not possible for a controller to follow a mnk player, it gives him a free get out of jail card which the other one cant counter, however normal tap strafes dont really give you much when people are at the same level.

Not medical stuff, just stating im a nerd and cant really disguise it (my nerdy way of trying to be funny), been a nerd since I was a kid and will go in the grave as a nerd, oh and a gamer - I will play competitive fps til I am not able anymore, and I hope that will be many years to come still :D

Actually punch boosting has some exploitable aspects however it is  situational, some places in SP its way OP, at the same time I am scared of getting it removed as its been my counter against mele trains for a couple of years already. Still there are some aspects of it I feel is a bit strange, when removing tap strafe because its not intentional the punch boosting is even more strange come to that argument.