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Re: EA it’s not Rocket science under 100k on steam …

@ComicBookGuy2727 The MM issue makes the cheating situation worse. Really cheaters should be getting tons of kills and high placements so if MM put them in the proper bucket only the best players would see them. But because the the MM stinks they end up in all lobbies. And because the MM stinks people get frustrated and are more likely to cheat.

13 Replies

  • @hayhorI absolutely despise cheaters, but this is the first game that I find myself thinking, "I would just be evening the odds".

    Like you said, the MM is terrible. I also think the server performance is all over the place. They're too generous with the Lag Compensation in this game. 20 tick rate servers isn't acceptable for a twitchy, fast paced shooter. Especially when it's being pitched as a competitive title.

    When you make a game competitive, and the average player can't figure out what to do to improve because they're just dying instantly to either high level sweaty 3 stacks, or cheaters, you're then incentivizing others to cheat.

    This industry wide trend of every FPS needing to be an esport isn't helping in my opinion. It's raising the bar, and leaving no room for people that don't want to live in a game all day. It just cultivates cheaters. People will always cheat, but when fail to design something that isn't satisfying unless you're winning, it again incentivizes people to cheat.

    It's just all adding up. I'm personally fed up with getting damaged instantly every single round. My teammates can move like bots, stand still, and it takes them a second or two to die. I'm tap-strafing, sliding, crouch strafing, and I'm almost exclusively dying in a single tick. I'm doing half the damage of my opponent even though I'm hitting them first without missing, and with the same weapon.

  • RockDokRock's avatar
    RockDokRock
    Seasoned Ace
    8 months ago
    @WhoopFighter I think it's just down to character. When lobbies are sweaty and clearly stacked against me I just go play or do something else. I've never felt the compulsion to cheat. Those that do... lack of character. Poor upbringing? Crap ethics? I don't know but that won't bode them well in life.
  • hayhor's avatar
    hayhor
    Hero
    8 months ago
    @WhoopFighter The thing is it all compounds on itself. We all know how hard this game is. If I don't play for a few weeks and come back my skill has noticeably deteriorated. So now I'm in bad MM, expected to carry 2 newer players. I know it's going to be the case so I work to shake the rust off. Most won't tho. They'll just get mad again at the MM, even if it was better that game and stop playing.
  • @RockDokRock I'm not going to cheat, nor have I ever. However, we can't ignore that people are cheating. Understanding why people are cheating can help prevent it.

    We still have to think objectively on why it's happening. Trying to base this debate on "character" is very subjective and won't get us very far.
  • @hayhor All I'm trying to say is that for Apex to survive, or for any large game that requires thousands of players online, you need to make space for casual players. If you can't capture that market, your game won't sustain. The population left in Apex are mostly sweaty players and cheaters, how do you maintain, or even grow a game if you don't give space for casuals? That's part of the reason for the population decline in Apex.

    Even adding in a solo queue ranked would probably be very helpful.
  • ComicBookGuy2727's avatar
    ComicBookGuy2727
    Seasoned Ace
    8 months ago
    @hayhor Agreed. I saw a post from a someone that said "may or may not be a former dev" from epic. Whistle blower - Regardless whether he was or wasn't, his words felt exactly what some companies do, and titles.
    Basically went on to say that most companies don't want to just "Ban" all cheaters, but more to understand the reasoning behind it. This person said their studies showed that on average cheaters spend more money. I mean, to cheat in the first place you must have specific traits.
    And lets face it, if a large portion of your player base is cheating and you ban them all - well you just banned a huge percentage of your income.
    This person claimed that the reason MM exist more so is to push the cheaters up to the highest MM bracket where they basically fight other cheaters (he claimed a 60% cheater base at the higher levels- hence the cheaters are happy cause they can still play and the casual player base is happy because most never reach those brackets or buckets anyway.
    However, he explained that with this comes the fact that their is now a cap on how far a casual's skill level can go - if you become good enough over time to reach these top brackets you just lose to cheaters.

    With fortnite you can tell, when you get high enough you die to top pros or cheaters for awhile, then the MM drops you down so you can get some wins and crowns and then back up again to be demolished. Rinse and repeat. However, even that is better than whatever Apex is doing with their MM.

    And yes the cheating in Apex seems to make the MM much worse than it already is.

    What are your thoughts on this, out of curiosity? I'm not sure what to think. although I play alot of fortnite zero build and I can say without a doubt, everything he mentioned about fortnite is exactly what it feels like.
  • RockDokRock's avatar
    RockDokRock
    Seasoned Ace
    8 months ago

    @WhoopFighterIt is subjective but what in what I've said isn't true? It's down to the person who thinks it's morally ok to cheat and have a totally unfair advantage over others. If that is what people choose (it's a choice) then what else can you pin it on?  You're just kind of a crap human then.

  • ComicBookGuy2727's avatar
    ComicBookGuy2727
    Seasoned Ace
    8 months ago
    @RockDokRock It would stand to reason, for me anyway... that if someone cheats in a video game, most likely their reasoning in their own mind is justified and I would assume these are the type of people that cheat in almost all forms of life. Cheat their friends out of something, cheat on their partners, cheat on exams, sports and any and everywhere in life that can provide them an advantage.
    Its sad, a low form of scum. These are people you don't want to work along side in any profession, or have as a life mate, a parent, or any family member.... definitely not as a friend.
    There have always been these people in gaming, just nowhere to the degree we see today.
    Don't hold your breath moving forward that it will ever get better. Remember, these cheaters are going to be the parents of our future lil humans. These are the people that will be raising the next generation.
    Anyone want to guess where the gaming industry will be when their children rise up to become gamers? : (
  • WhoopFighter's avatar
    WhoopFighter
    8 months ago

    @ComicBookGuy2727 wrote:
    @RockDokRockIt would stand to reason, for me anyway... that if someone cheats in a video game, most likely their reasoning in their own mind is justified and I would assume these are the type of people that cheat in almost all forms of life. Cheat their friends out of something, cheat on their partners, cheat on exams, sports and any and everywhere in life that can provide them an advantage.
    Its sad, a low form of scum. These are people you don't want to work along side in any profession, or have as a life mate, a parent, or any family member.... definitely not as a friend.
    There have always been these people in gaming, just nowhere to the degree we see today.
    Don't hold your breath moving forward that it will ever get better. Remember, these cheaters are going to be the parents of our future lil humans. These are the people that will be raising the next generation.
    Anyone want to guess where the gaming industry will be when their children rise up to become gamers? : (

    Went off the rails there a bit bud, this is a forum for a game called Apex. You okay?

  • Airish85's avatar
    Airish85
    8 months ago

    @ComicBookGuy2727 

    I remember "cheating" in some games I played as youngster 20 years ago...
    Friends/Web told you how to put godmode on in Duke Nukem 3D. Or resources code for CC Red Alert.
    At this stage I had already played through the SP campaign about 100 times or something. 
    Why did I then choose to cheat? 
    For the fun of it. I think I turned out okay. Id be more worried about the things I write below regarding the gaming kids of today.

    You get no relaxing from games the same way you could get back in the day. Modern online gaming is highly stressful.
    High stress -> Bigger dopamine rewards -> addiction. Thats the recipe. 

    Want to remove the stress = use cheat and you are now playing in Easy mode. 
    PvP enviroment means there will always be someone who is not winning and will feel get their feelings hurt so cant really blame matchmaking. 
    In that sense should the MM work perfectly, if you are the worst of the worst you would only lose (if we take out RNG). 

    "Faulty" MM also means everybody in every skill level suffers. Whether its because of bad teammates or good opponents it happens to everyone. 

    I think one of the main reasons why people cheat is that they want to play easy mode on the popular games. 
    Thats why we have multiple season preds and 0 skill people who have been caught cheating. 
    Everytime you load up into Apex you never know what kind of matches you are going to get. 
    Its another gamble with your mentals since you dont know if you are going to feel better or worse after playing the game. 

    Got me started so offtopic rant starts 😃:
    Thats just the way the current games are designed.
    Devs also love to add as many gambling type of things games as it also gets people addicted. Events are always a gamble on how many packs you need to open to get the main prize.
    People are losing all of their savings on buying CS packs because of legalized gambling.
    Some countries like Belgium have identified the gambling in the packs and you are not allowed to buy packs in Belgium. 
    Wonder why...

    Modern online gaming rides on two things: Stress and gambling addiction.
    End of rant. 😃


  • ComicBookGuy2727's avatar
    ComicBookGuy2727
    Seasoned Ace
    8 months ago
    @WhoopFighter Did I reply to you? Are you a little butt hurt because I called you out for your "I smurf alot" comment?

    I replied to Rok, about exactly what he was talking about - people who cheat, moral reasoning et cetera.

    Are you ok?
  • ComicBookGuy2727's avatar
    ComicBookGuy2727
    Seasoned Ace
    8 months ago
    @Airish85 I can understand people cheating in single player games, campaigns, it doesn't come at the expense of another person. I see no issue with that. I'm talking about competitive multiplayer PvP games. I find there is a significant difference here.

    I still remember back in the PS2 days, there was lots of people using the game shark and game shark version 2 to cheat in PvE games. Mind you the single player campaign games back in the day were pretty hard to beat lol.

    There are multiple reasons people cheat today in PvE games, and F2P, I feel the addiction aspect of collecting badges, stats, and more so, show casing them for bragging rights and swag is high among the reasons.
    Others are
    - The ones addicted to badges and stats
    - The ones addicted to unlocking everything the game offers
    - The ones that have a platform in which to make money off of / streamers, content for a paycheck.
    - The ones that like you said, want an easy mode or don't wish to sweat to hard but still wish to win.
    - The hardcore competitors hell bent on winning at all costs.
    - The ones that do it for the feeling of power.
    - The ones that are fed up with cheaters and feel there is no other option left other than to quit or cheat, and are looking for a equal playing ground. (These are the ones I understand the most)

    There are a few others I'm sure.
    And you are bang on with the modern games today - stress and gambling addiction lol.

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