Aim Assist
Haven't played the game for a while but with sadness I can see that the Aim Assist is still there, ruining the game to all M&K players. Not saying that you should remove it but in the way it is, it's...
Forum Discussion
@Eshshshss
1. No, just because the data was taken from multiple players it does not rule out variability in the data. You cannot use large case studies like this with limited control to analyze something. You need to pit apples to apples. This data does not take into affect (or at least I don't think it does) player starting health, player mag count, player movement (ie if the player(s) in the gun fight are moving), how many shots came from one another (ie a 1v1 or a 1v1+). The type of data used in this study is purely for insight (meaning, general explanation without knowing the root cause) which studies like this usually lead to more controllable studies which target specific hypothesis. "Is a controller dominating at close ranges" would be a very difficult hypothesis to answer. You need to refine the hypothesis, but use the data from this study to do so.
2. Agreed, its really hard to say. Not sure we can discuss that here unless we go into firing range and do our own tests.
3. Fair enough. 🙂
You wrote: "No one is saying that AA does the aiming for you like full-on aimbot does, yet it is as clear that it does help and borderline between it and softer settings on aimbot in hands of a good player (with tracking skills) are quite blurred."
This is where I disagree. It does not take a "good" player and make them pro. Nor would it make a "pro" player and turn them bad. Later I provide specific details into this statement I make.
You wrote: "...Thus my point was and still is that if I get my aim to the same level on the controller that it is now on MNK (and it is not godlike by far) majority of these shots would be on target and I would clearly back up the stats from the research = win more close-range fights..." -
This is not how AA works tho. If you are missing those shots, AA will not bring the reticle to the enemy and thus allow you to make your hits. I have proof later on this. In addition, resolution and monitor size to matter in terms of AA. This is what is known as DPI (dots per inch) how many pixels occupy an inch of the monitor. Now I am not saying one person on specific settings will get better AA than another, but what I am saying is your measurements need to be in pixels not mm of your monitor.
You wrote: "Finally about implementation..."
I do not think they use AA as an exploit for actual hacks. There are games like valorent and others that don't exist for console that still have aimbot. Hacks I find need to be another conversation, but they do not relate to aim assist. Also, its not coulda shoulda woulda, they can still implement ways to detect aim bots/hacking. However, on console, one could use a strike pack controller, this will be VERY difficult to circumvent. But this ruins it for all players not just PC players on crossplay lobbies.
Now, here I discuss a more appropriate study to help identify the aim assist ability. Instead of looking at win/loss of input types (MNK, Controller), we need to look at ACCURACY. This will tell us which one is hitting their shots more instead of who is winning the fight. One can win fights because the other is of lower health, being shot from multiple people, etc. This will also eliminate the affect of "one clip kills", cause one clip with a spitfire is nowhere near the same as an R99.
Here I made a video of me playing on PC where AA is supposedly 0.4. It does very little in helping me land my shots. This video is what I am talking about when I ask for evidence and unbiased details.
https://youtu.be/uyZw-3l4tus
Also, my arguments have never been against giving players the option to turn off cross play. My argument has and always will be about the performance of AA and players on controller.
1. No, just because the data was taken from multiple players it does not rule out variability in the data. You cannot use large case studies like this with limited control to analyze something. You need to pit apples to apples. This data does not take into affect (or at least I don't think it does) player starting health, player mag count, player movement (ie if the player(s) in the gun fight are moving), how many shots came from one another (ie a 1v1 or a 1v1+). The type of data used in this study is purely for insight (meaning, general explanation without knowing the root cause) which studies like this usually lead to more controllable studies which target specific hypothesis. "Is a controller dominating at close ranges" would be a very difficult hypothesis to answer. You need to refine the hypothesis, but use the data from this study to do so.
2. Agreed, its really hard to say. Not sure we can discuss that here unless we go into firing range and do our own tests.
3. Fair enough. 🙂
You wrote: "No one is saying that AA does the aiming for you like full-on aimbot does, yet it is as clear that it does help and borderline between it and softer settings on aimbot in hands of a good player (with tracking skills) are quite blurred."
This is where I disagree. It does not take a "good" player and make them pro. Nor would it make a "pro" player and turn them bad. Later I provide specific details into this statement I make.
You wrote: "...Thus my point was and still is that if I get my aim to the same level on the controller that it is now on MNK (and it is not godlike by far) majority of these shots would be on target and I would clearly back up the stats from the research = win more close-range fights..." -
This is not how AA works tho. If you are missing those shots, AA will not bring the reticle to the enemy and thus allow you to make your hits. I have proof later on this. In addition, resolution and monitor size to matter in terms of AA. This is what is known as DPI (dots per inch) how many pixels occupy an inch of the monitor. Now I am not saying one person on specific settings will get better AA than another, but what I am saying is your measurements need to be in pixels not mm of your monitor.
You wrote: "Finally about implementation..."
I do not think they use AA as an exploit for actual hacks. There are games like valorent and others that don't exist for console that still have aimbot. Hacks I find need to be another conversation, but they do not relate to aim assist. Also, its not coulda shoulda woulda, they can still implement ways to detect aim bots/hacking. However, on console, one could use a strike pack controller, this will be VERY difficult to circumvent. But this ruins it for all players not just PC players on crossplay lobbies.
Now, here I discuss a more appropriate study to help identify the aim assist ability. Instead of looking at win/loss of input types (MNK, Controller), we need to look at ACCURACY. This will tell us which one is hitting their shots more instead of who is winning the fight. One can win fights because the other is of lower health, being shot from multiple people, etc. This will also eliminate the affect of "one clip kills", cause one clip with a spitfire is nowhere near the same as an R99.
Here I made a video of me playing on PC where AA is supposedly 0.4. It does very little in helping me land my shots. This video is what I am talking about when I ask for evidence and unbiased details.
https://youtu.be/uyZw-3l4tus
Also, my arguments have never been against giving players the option to turn off cross play. My argument has and always will be about the performance of AA and players on controller.
1. sure we can nitpick every detail like that, in this case, no study actually shows anything except ones that can be replicated to a 100% accuracy, same variables over and over again... geez.
Plus your arguments posted here can work for and against each input, that's why it is a study, which on the one hand tries to get as much data as possible at the same time not surveying for 100 years to cover all possible scenarios which in turn is done via data extrapolation.
I brought this up either in this thread or similar before - you can't just clone two players and make them 100% equally skilled, then give one MNK other controller and get final results regarding what is better, not in this world.
2. regarding the all points made about AA... dude clearly you are preaching your idea and missing a lot of points that I make during my posts. Please re-read my posts, don't want to rewrite them with highlights, etc.
Thanks for the video, comments on that one from my side:
- you are playing arenas - in my opinion, less competitive environment than BR plus most of the fights take place in close range no matter the map or team composition - can't compare how good/bad players are in mid/long range
- you are playing regular arenas = skill level of yours as well as enemies are questionable here, as said in my previous posts I would tend to think that controller = AA makes an average player reach a good player level almost instantly, yet in the hands of a bad play it is still bad
- regarding what AA does, here is my explanation using a screenshot from your video: https://prnt.sc/25opgjl <- green line is the path of your cursor, red lines are what usually happens with me on MNK. AA does implement a slight delay, let's call it breaks when you approach a target and while MNK just overshoots it most of the time, the controller player has constant feedback that "hey you need to slow down now" which is the essential part in close range fights. Here is me with Eva on D4 level: https://youtu.be/io5UXU1J2o0 <- slow it down if needed and see how I overshot all 4 times, potentially getting 1 complete no-reg, potentially 1 more partial which would not make much of a difference to be honest.
Official reply https://answers.ea.com/t5/Bug-Reports/Shots-not-registering/m-p/10701930#M69733 game has predictive logics, crosshair can't be trusted, if you hipfire bullet spread is not indicative to the crosshair. Basically what I get out of this info and more I read on the topic is that in Apex due to how servers work when you shoot an enemy game still predicts a lot of stuff like was enemy actually there, how random was bullet spread if you did hipfire, accordingly it can reg full hit, partial or no-reg.
In my opinion (guess and potential discussion for the next topic) - AA also helps, forces the game to predict hits more accurately more often than not. E.g. you have 1v1 with Eva - you keep hitting 7s and 9s while other player hits 60+ constantly thanks to AA/game prediction.
@Eshshshss I appreciate that you show a little of what a typical PC player can do in close combat. It's nowhere near enough but it's helpful to compare what PC is capable of at both ranges for these discussions.
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