Finisher or opener? 12 bullets of 45 damage a piece (not counting headshots) isn't a finisher or opener. It's enough to kill a fully kitted person with potato aim before you have to reload and 2 people if you have good aim. At all ranges. While sprinting. You want to give it the Mastiff reload, I disagree. Let them reload the entire mag. Just reduce the damage to 30. Solved. Let the Wingman kids run around at * speeds while mashing away with the weapon. Just don't let it autokill people for them.
30 damages means 7 body hits to kill a player with epic / legendary armor, can you guys just stop suggesting random damages values ? Because it is obvious that you are not being impartial and you just hate this gun to the point where you want it to do no damages anymore which is like removing it from the game really, it doesn't help the devs at all...
If the wingman damages had to be nerfed it would need to be something like 42 damages instead of 45, this way it would still down an epic armor player with 5 shots, blue armor would require 5 shots too instead of 4, but white armor would still require 3 shots that seems like an acceptable damage nerf to me which is actually more like buffing blue armor against the Wingman, but 30 damages is just delusional.
And yes even with 12 bullets it would be a finisher or opener weapon without the speed loader, it would be very useful early game because of it's high damages but mid to late game it would be way less interresting and practical to use just the Wingman considering you would be facing players with high tier armors.
The only real problem of the wingman is people running arround and doing spray and pray untill they kill you or luckily hit you enough times so that their team mates can finish you.
Removing the speed loader would fix this because this kind of player usually have to empty 3 full cylinders of 12 cartridges to put you down, but without the speed loader they would not be able to do that anymore.
( It makes me think about another idea, while manually loading the cartridges in the cylinder, it would be impossible to sprint ).
I am good with the Wingman but I am not using this weapon anymore because I find it quite boring after a while but I have used it long enough to know what makes it a bit too overpowered and it is clearly not its damages, I sometimes get frustrated when I am doing epic actions and get killed by a low level player spam firing a Wingman but just because I am getting killed by a Wingman does not mean I want to penalize players who are skilled enough and enjoy playing with the wingman, this weapon needs to be balanced so that each shot counts, that's it.
On a sidenote I think that the hipfire accuracy nerf was not enough since it is only effective for very long distance shooting, it is still accurate enough to hipfire at 20 meters.
42 Damage is the exact same as 45 damage, as is 40 damage. Let it keep most of its ammo (10 maybe?) on an extended mag if its going to keep it, 39 damage and the skullpiercer back to 2.5x would put this gun in a spot where you can't just spam it and win a fight like almost every single player does with it right now (and every single player IS STILL * USING IT). You would HAVE to be accurate with your shots and aim for the head, which seems to be the point of this gun. 30 damage is WAY too low for this gun.
If you're just landing body shots on 39 damage then you're much more likely to lose the fight. That's 6 body shots to kill, 1 headshot + 3 body, or 2 headshot + 1 body are the possible kill times with the gun at 39 damage and 2.5x skullpiercer assuming a purple armor and helmet on your victim (I don't know how the damage is calculated so I assumed purple helmet + 2.5x skullpiercer = 2.25x multiplier?). This also lets it retain its 3 shot kill potential which is actually rewarding the people that are good with the gun as people just spamming away are much less likely to get those quick TTK. If I get domed twice and then die then I guess the guy was just better than I was, but I would feel much more confident fighting against this gun KNOWING that my opponent is going to need to have somewhat decent aim. Right now it feels like I have to be WAY better than the other person to be able to peek and land enough shots to push them off their position or outright down them.
I think this would be the most reasonable change for the gun as there's nothing wrong with having a high skill cap weapon in the game, and currently its a low skill floor + high skill cap weapon that anybody can use effectively and I can't imagine anybody enjoys running into this gun right now. Watching people like shroud and mendo, even they get annoyed when they're running a train on a team and then suddenly they're dead to a pack of wingmans out of nowhere. They know the gun is powerful, they use it often, and they know how annoying it is to run into this weapon. Not that its all about the streamers, but even the best players acknowledge there's problems with it.
Not bad, but I thought is was fine before and they've already nerfed it. I wouldn't be against taking all the guns back to their original state. I would prefer it actually. Idk why so many people are scared of this gun.
@akasakiishin The fact that players are "scared" about this weapon is totally justified, what is not justified is the players who want to nerf it to make it useless.
Without the speedloader I would agree that the nerf could be reverted ( except for the hipfire ).
@LuckyCanuckLuke Even with 6 rounds cylinders the Wingman would still be problematic since the reload time is very quick anyway. You could still kill entire squads while playing only with the Wngman.
I fail to understand what is wrong with having to do 7 body shots to down a fully kitted player with a headshot oriented weapon that has 12 bullets in its mag, literally doesn't miss the target if you're not terrible at the game because it's 100% accurate with no mods and lets you move around like you're nearly full sprinting while firing. There aren't that many weapons that down an enemy with a single mag in reality. Most can, but they require your opponent to be significantly out of position and generally also force you to stand still to reduce bullet spread or make you walk at a slug's speed so you're vulnerable too.
Something needs to go on the Wingman. And I want this game to have relatively high TTK so it's more skill oriented and less "wait for others to start fighting and backstab them for a guaranteed win" oriented. So the damage needs to be gutted, not the mobility. Let it be a high mobility hand cannon that pew pews people while you're a dodgy * with basically no attachments required. Just at significantly lower damage. Not 42 or 39, that's not a proper nerf. 30 damage is a proper nerf. 7 body shots isn't bad, at all, considering all its other perks.
30 damage is a proper value considering it's A SIDE-ARM. NOT A PRIMARY. And the strongest side-arm in terms of that cause even at 30 damage, it rivals a semi-auto sniper by the name of the G7 Scout (same damage to body). Right now, it almost rivals a Longbow in terms of damage because it's only 10 damage away from doing the sane chest damage and actually has more limb damage than the Longbow, which is a legitimate bolt sniper archetype. That's ridiculous in any sense you can put it. It doesn't suit realism at all, if that's what they're trying to aim for. A .50 cal sniper does more than a deagle ever does in any instance.
So, call me crazy. But surely the sensible thing to have done with this gun would just be to make it a 6 round gun, incapable of attaching an extended mag to? Much like you cant put a barrel on the havoc or flatline. That way it also outperforms many guns at low level, but requires near perfect aim for higher tier geared enemies? I also think the hipfire reduction was a good call. But changing damage etc. takes away from the gun, in a bad way imo just runs the risk of having a game full of mozambiques long term. and seriously. who wants that?
I agree with everything you said. But I have to say, it's hip fire, just because you're not ADS doesn't mean the bullet shouldn't come straight out of the barrel.
But yeah 30 dmg is preposterous. I've also found myself dropping fully kitted wingman over hemlock or 301 lately because like you said, end game, thick armor, room for error is thin a paper. I'm super salty about the peacekeeper being buffed and the other shotguns just, stalemate. The eva -8 is straight garbage, I've emptied two clips on a guy and he still killed me, wtf! I don't mean I was grazing him either, maybe 2 max 3, taking 7 damage.
If you shoot somebody with bird shot at a distance with a 12 gauge they're going to the hospital. I've pumped 5 shots at short range direct chest shots and the last one had his entire head in the hit box, got that last shot off and I died. That's dumb, I didn't think the peacekeeper was strong enough before the nerf then they nerfed it anyway.
Either way, what a fantastic game right? But we do need people to complain, but they also need people like us who don't just whine about a gun because people keep killing them with it. If you can't beat'em join'em.
I honestly think they've tried it, couldn't hit their shots but keep getting melted by it because they don't know how to strafe.
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