Dropship vs Dropzone
I personally quite enjoyed the drop zone poi being preorganized prior to choosing characters. People that are complaining that its impossible to rush another team of bat or to take fights immediately...
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Thoughtful reply much appreciated.
And let me start by saying that I drone on here for quite a while, and not entirely clearly or coherently. So feel free to skip this and ignore me. I was mostly just trying to work out my own thoughts on the matter and you are under no obligation to go along for the ride.
I belong to the school of thought that says pubs vs. ranked is an illusion. (Yeah, I know I lost a lot of people right there....) They're the same game and I play them exactly the same way. I don't like it when the dev slowly starts to "evolve" ranked game play. I've been in games before that did this and it just exacerbates the "us vs. them" mentality of the perennial casual/competitive divide. Which is more in peoples' heads, imo, than anything else. Honestly, who isn't competitive in this game? No one signs onto a first person shooter because they don't like competition. In a broad sense, obviously. But the point is still the point.
"Obviously there are higher stakes at play [in ranked], such as skill or player progression"
And that's the illusion I'm talking about. Skill is skill, no matter which mode you're in, and seeking to improve is something we're all doing either way because, again, no one picks up a competitive shooter to try and get worse. And progression is an even bigger illusion. The dev, using their own set of criteria, judge your performance and assign you a number. The criteria are arbitrary and change from season to season, so many players end up feeling like they're chasing a moving target. Best example of this is the age-old "placement vs. kills" dilemma, but there are others. And in the end most players end up treating ranked play as a ladder to be climbed instead of as a description of where you are as a player compared to other players. And they end up using that "information" to try to modify their behaviors. Sometimes successfully, sometimes less so, sometimes completely misunderstanding which behaviors are in need of modification. But always, ALWAYS assuming that the pros and streamers and developer are valuing the "right" behaviors, the "best" behaviors, and in the process creating a "one size fits all" mentality of how to play the game. And the more they set it in stone and the more players buy into it, then the less tolerant they become of anyone who questions those standards or looks for their own way forward.
This is one reason why I think fixed drops are a bad idea. They force a player to adopt the conventional wisdom instead of inviting him to decide for himself whether it's wise at all. Often it isnt. Or rather, it is... for a certain type of player, for a more aggressive player. Who wants teammates that match his aggression. Removing latitude for an individual to decide for himself how hot or cool to play a given situation. Or the match as a whole. Or the game in general.
Sorry, that went on longer than I expected. My hat's off to you if you stuck it out for the whole thing.
"My reasoning is solely based on the fact that I have team mates therefore it is a team based game."
This is absolutely completely and irrefutably true. And yet... you bring up the single biggest issue that I've heard pro-preset drops people talk about: solo queueing. An argument could be made, despite what I just said, that this is really only a team based game if you know your teammates, communicate with your teammates, and gel with your teammates. Otherwise it's a free for all. And yes, that can apply to ranked as well. I'm not saying that mindset will get anyone very far up the ladder, but it's still a mindset that people come by legitimately. The player can ask himself not "how far can I go up the ladder if I do everything exactly the way I'm supposed to do it according to pros and devs?" but instead "how far can I go using my own best judgment and exercising my independence to that end?" Obviously the answer to the second question is "not as far as if you answered the first question." But which route might be more satisfying to the player? I guess that depends on just how independent-minded they are, on how much they trust their own judgment, on whether they consistently have their own judgment proved right on the battlefield. Because in the end, rank is just a number, and whatever number you get will still be a lot lower than a lot of other players. So, says me, stop letting other players tell you how to do it and start figuring it out for yourself. It's entirely possible that mindset will lead someone to be a better team player. It's entirely possible that it won't. But it should be the player's own personal journey, not a cookie-cutter "Apex for Dummies" approach. To put it another way: I'd rather lose on my own terms than... lose on someone else's. Assuming, as we all should, that in battle royale you are almost always going to lose.
In the end it isn't just that I think it's unfair to expect outliers to constantly conform to the mainstream. I think it's unrealistic. I think the mainstream is too often wrong to expect anyone to follow them. Preset drops can bend the curve a little, but you can't engineer individuality or free will out of the game. I don't think it's possible. But I could be wrong. It certainly wouldn't be the first time if I was.
Hey thanks for the response. I did add this post as what I thought would be a good topic to discuss, so I appreciate the replies.
Your reply mainly focuses on autonomy, individuality, and the idea that ranked versus pubs is mostly psychological, but I don’t think you’re really engaging with my original points. My argument is about practical consequences and teamwork in ranked, not about forcing conformity.
And this is where I think we are looking at it differently. You’re saying that ranked creates a “one size fits all” mentality and that forces players to conform to standards set by pros, streamers, or even the devs. But if ranked and pubs are treated as psychologically the same, then you’re essentially forcing players who want to take the game seriously and those who don’t into the same pool with the same expectations. Ranked is completely optional, no one is required to que into it. Allowing ranked to be there whether or not for apex or any other shooter game allows for players who want that structure and a competitive environment where there is a shared expectation. If you take that away then youre now blending two different intentions and interests of the player into one environment and expecting them to essentially coexist with no friction.
Which brings me to my next question, you refer to rank as an illusion, which to me doesn’t make much sense, as ranked has real consequences like RP gain/loss and abandon penalties, all of which already justify expecting different behavior than in unranked.
As someone who has played my fair share of games solo queued, adapting to play with strangers is a real skill and a form of agency. I dont believe that teamwork only exists if players “gel,” you don’t need to like or know your teammates to function as a team as I believe blending into any squad is itself adaptability.
Regarding your point about skill and progression being an illusion. I agree, ranked numbers can feel arbitrary, but that doesn’t mean ranked structure or expectations are meaningless. Ranked is an optional space with shared accountability, and having clear expectations eg. coordinated drops.
Can benefit the teams function instead of leaving everything to chance.
I understand your concern that fixed drops might feel like they force players to adopt a single playstyle, but my idea keeps player choice as the main point but do not dictate exactly where anyone lands. This means a player can still decide how hot or passive they want to play a drop. That way the team benefits from having a shared starting framework. For ranked i would say this matters because you’re expected to coordinate with your teammates. My whole idea about having the dropzones is not about removing freedom, it’s about giving teams the structure they need to function effectively without limiting the decisionmaking, that way the aggressive players can still take high risk drops, and the passive players can play slower, and the system simply makes it easier for everyone to align early-game decisions with the team and not force them to conform to a single mindset.
I do want to point out that at the end of your post you acknowledge yourself that “Preset drops… can’t engineer individuality or free will out of the game,” which is fully aligned with my point that dropzones don’t remove player freedom. My post is about increasing practical play freedom in a way that allows all players to have a say within their team about where they land, while still providing a shared structure for coordination.
I completely get that you value your own judgment and having the ability to make your own decisions in the game, and I agree that independence is important. But in ranked, the reality is that you’re sharing a team with strangers, (unless a premade squad)and certain structures like having shared dropzones wouldn't take away personal freedom, they simply provide a baseline for coordination so that solo queueing players can blend effectively with their team. I’ve already mentioned that you don’t need to like your teammates to play well together, and the risk of solo queueing in ranked is a risk I’m aware of and willing to take. You can still make independent choices mid game, decide how aggressive or passive to play, the dropzones if kept should just reduce early chaos and help teammates land in a way that makes coordinated play possible.
Even highly independent players benefit from some structure in ranked, because it ensures that all three players are starting from a point that allows teamwork to happen, rather than forcing each player to gamble on others randomly landing far away or in mismatched locations. This doesn’t take away from the freedom of choice ingame, it just aligns player freedom with practical team needs, which is essential in a team based game. Independence and personal playstyle can coexist with shared coordination, and I think that’s exactly what my idea of having dropzones should aim to provide in a ranked setting.
I think that were are on the same page about dropzones. The dropzones aren’t meant to force conformity to the player, they simply provide a shared starting framework for teams in ranked, while still allowing each player to decide for themselves how and where to land. My post is about letting players have a say within their team and reducing early chaos, without limiting personal choice or creativity. Even with dropzones, players can play aggressively, passively, or however they like. The structure just makes teamwork and coordination more manageable, which is essential when you’re sharing the game with teammates you don’t know.
I do hope I was able to answer all your points.
Hands down, the most sensible commentary I've heard on this subject. And I've heard a lot of it. You actually said quite a bit that has me re-thinking how I look at a few particular aspects of the game. Some of them fairly fundamental aspects of the game. Like teamwork. Not saying I'll turn into a good team player over night. I won't. Or ever. Too many bad experiences with randoms have formed me into the lone wolf that I am today. But you were 100% on target to describe as a skill set the ability to work with two other strangers to accomplish a goal. That's a skill set I just don't have and never will.
I'll be coming back over the next day or two to re-read what you wrote - that's how valuable I think it is. So thank you again for taking the time to contribute something I hope others will find valuable, but which I find invaluable. Sorry I could only hit the like button once.
👍
Thank you for your reply, and I appreciate the time youve taken to read and reply to my responses.
And I get where you're coming from too. As ive had rough experiences with randoms and so i understand how that can absolutely push someone into that mindset. It's unrealistic for someone to become a perfect teammate over night 😆 i dont think indepence and teamwork are opposites. There are many ways or even opportunities where your own playstyle and personal judgement can sync up in a team.
Either way, i respect that youre open to questioning how past experiences have shaped youre perspective.
Thanks again for the discussion.
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