EA Nerf Wingman pls
Wingman is always OP in these seasons. High damage, no damage falloff and suitable for all range combat. Wingman is just a PISTOL, so please at least add the damage falloff like other guns. And in...
Forum Discussion
@HLNorsemaneFor the last point, I think you remember it wrong.
Both P2020 and Alternator have damage falloff. Both SMGs, LMGs, pistols have their damage falloff beyond 38 metres (except those care package weapons). So it is a little bit OP for wingman to have no damage falloff.
@Xx__Miku831__xX Can you give me any source to validate your information about damage falloff? Cause I can't find any. Not on the wiki and no videos on youtube about it either.
- @HLNorsemane It is better for you to try it yourself in the range.
I am too suck to tell if it is headshot or not as the game will only show the damage like the bodyshot if you land a headshot beyond 38 metres.
Anyway, I will try to put a video on Youtube if possible.
This may need some time. - @Xx__Miku831__xX There is only bonus damage drop off for headshots for ALL guns according to the article, but only drop off for body and head shots for 2 guns (havoc and charge rifle). That means that the wingman also has damage drop off if landing a headshot past the whatever its max headshot range is.
With that said, this whole debate is just nonsense. If a person can land a headshot on a target that is at a sniping range then he deserves to have that damage dealt to said person. Landing a headshot at that range is literally virtually impossible unless the target stands dead still. in which case he deserves to take massive damage and die lol - @HLNorsemane https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gho8DDpt0ss&feature=youtu.be
Sorry for the bad quality of video
I hope this video can help you to know my idea. Since the video quality is really bad, I would explain it here.
First, I used P2020 and wingman to shoot from 45 metres. P2020 lost its headshot bonus while wingman does not.
Then, I used R-301 to shoot from 44 metres. It did not lose its headshot bonus.Third, I used Splitfire to shoot from 56 metres, it did not lose its headshot bonus.
Then I used L-Star to shoot from 62 metres and it lost its headshot bonus.
Prowler also lost its headshot bonus from 42 metres.
Splitfire lost its headshot bonus from 72 metres, while wingman did not.Alternator lost its headshot bonus from 42 metres.
At last, PK did not lose its bonus from ~52 metres.
It is a little bit messy to read.- @HLNorsemane ~38 metres is not too far that wingman can still land headshots constantly with a little bit practice.
The most important thing is that wingman DOES NOT have a damage drop off from 38+ metres like other SMGs and pistols. You can still land a full headshot damage beyond that range. @Xx__Miku831__xX"38 metres is not too far that wingman can still land headshots constantly with a little bit practice." This right here is such bogus. You say "it only takes a little practice" and yet not even the best twitch streamers can consistently do it.. Meaning that you must be an absolute god with the wingman. You said it's easy, not me. So in the light of that I want you to show me "easy" and record yourself 2 tapping people at all kinds of ranges. If you are gonna be so bold as to claim it only takes a bit of practice then you need to back that up with some gameplay to prove your point.
I saw your video, but it definitely would be extremely difficult to consistently land headshots at your 38+ meter range. Especially if the enemy is strafing, and/or you are strafing.
It’s really not easy.
Its the best weapon ingame for sure, for multiple reason, aka insanely good in long, mid, and close range. Also its insanely useful, because of the high damage it does and that you don`t really need much ammo with it, which is a big factor. Another huge factor is the ADS speed that is 100%, which is insanely big factor, because you can strafe like madman with it . Firerate is another big factor for how good overall Wingman is.
I think they design this weapon to be at the top and be that powerful with a reason.
If they want to tune it down, leave it like now, just remove the skullpiercer and will be perfect. Still very powerful, but not overpowerful..
- @LordloshBang It is still very difficult to use at long range if the opponent is strafing or doing anything besides standing still.
People overrate the hop up though. It only does the full 100 something damage if they have no helmet. In what game would you not have a helmet? Just today, I shot someone in the head with skullpiercer, and I only did like 78 damage.
Even with a grey helmet, the easiest to find, it lowers the damage to about 90. (Looked this up). - @HLNorsemane You know that I shoot like a s*** in that video as I missed lots of shots even they didn't move.
But I wanted to go back to the beginning: Both wingman and other pistols/SMGs are hard to land a headshot beyond a certain range, people need similar level of practice to increase their headshot rate, but why only Wingman does not have a damage falloff?
Actually the old PK (before season 5) also doesn't have a damage falloff, and someone had already suggested PK should add a damage falloff to prevent someone using choke to snipe people from far away (but actually bodyshot is already enough to deal massive of damage) and most importantly, EVA-8 has its damage falloff, so it would be unfair that only PK does not have damage falloff. But now PK is care package weapon, EA is too lazy to change for the PK #_#. - @Xx__Miku831__xX Wingman probably doesn't have the damage falloff because o the hopup and it's supposed to be fairly good. That, and/or the devs decided to allow players who mastered the gun to be able to use it at longer ranges.
@Sir_NamedThen why not set the damage falloff of wingman to 36 metres when there is no hop-up attached in it, and change that pop-up to "Increase headshot damage, increase the damage falloff range."
Maybe the maximum range of damage falloff for wingman with that skullpiercer is about 100 metres (cause I am very bad at calculating distance in game).
*The most important thing is that EA would not delete this pop-up in the future, or they may change the guns affected when it was removed.
*I don't know the falloff range of snipers, but I wonder if it is fine to increase the damage falloff range of Longbow.@Xx__Miku831__xX"Then why not set the damage falloff of wingman to 36 metres when there is no hop-up attached in it, and change that pop-up to "Increase headshot damage, increase the damage falloff range."
Maybe the maximum range of damage falloff for wingman with that skullpiercer is about 100 metres (cause I am very bad at calculating distance in game)."Because the way things are right now is how they decided they wanted it to be. Should be pretty self explanatory that one. And I still find it absolutely ridiculous you want this nerf so bad. It won't change anything really. Go look around at full vids of the top streamers using wingman, count the shots and observe how many shots actually hit and how many of those shots are headshots. You'll find that at most (and I am being generous here) 4% of wingman shots AT MOST over a full game are headshots and 70% of shots more or less misses the target.
Just go to youtube and watch any video of any streamer that isn't a montage, but a full game video in predator rank and you will see why wingman isn't anywhere near op. Also, that said, before you focus on the gun and the shooting, remember to pay attention to how these guys position and how they move. You should realize then that the gun (not just the wingman) isn't what plays the biggest role in why these guys dominate most opponents as hard as they do.
- @HLNorsemane You might be true that the headshot rate of wingman is only 4%, but these 4% fight might have a huge difference depend on how much do that headshot damages. As you know, 45 damage and ~75 damage (assuming there is a helmet) is a big difference that you are not using wingman ONLY or you may have your teammates. This ~30 damage difference may completely change the result of the fight. The range 36-48 metres is relatively a close distance in the fight, but wingman has a difference among all the SMGs/Pistols that can still deal headshot damage at that distance. Despite that the low headshot rate for players, it is so important in that specific fight.
- @Xx__Miku831__xX Jesus christ bro.. I just can't with you anymore. You are so incredibly narrow sighted and contradictive.
Far too caught up in your idea that putting damage drop off on the wingman being "the right thing to do" that you just don't give a flying eff about what others has to say no matter how thoroughly they point out just why the damage drop off might not be there.
I tried to convey the message to you that people miss about more or less 70% of their shots with the wingman, that the wingmans projectiles are slow, that the wingmans trajectory is steep at sniper ranges and that landing a headshot on moving targets at longer ranges is virtually impossible.
I given you footage, told you to go look at more footage, countered your every argument with valid points with proof (video) and you still keep insisting that you must be right about damage drop off being justified.
YOU ARE WRONG! Everything I shown you says that you are wrong, other people chiming in on the conversation attesting to that making those headshots being incredibly hard says that you are wrong, the devs feeling that an attachment granting 20% more headshot damage to the wingman being in the game is justified says that you are wrong. I will just tell you this, your cries will not be heard because they make little to no sense on the whole.
Also, you said earlier that you think a person should be rewarded for putting in the practice.. But again, this just proves that you do not really feel that way. You are being 200% contradictive to your earlier statement.
I am done arguing with you. You are wrong, PERIOD and that isn't an opinion, it's a fact based on what I seen of top streamers performances with the wingman, having calculated/broken down the numbers based on said full matches and it is telling me that the wingman is in an excellent place as it is right now. DEAL WITH IT and move on. - @HLNorsemane Wingman is hard to land headshots in long ranges, but this also applies to all other SMGs/Pistols. It is because they are not supposed to fight for long distances.
I keep asking the same question again, "Why Wingman is so unique that only it does not have a damage falloff, but not the good R-99, or the joke mozambique/RE-45?" All of them are hard to land headshots. If you really want to reward good players, then those Pistols, SMGs or even LMGs should have a longer damage falloff zone, but only the specific Wingman only. Back to season 3 and season 4 (before EA insanely buff the havoc), almost no one is using ARs as wingman is enough for them to fight (G7 scout is a failure that it is hard to classify it to Snipers/ARs). Yea, there will be always an exception like Shroud that may use Flatline for fighting. But they are just a small exception. In the world championship, each team is ALWAYS have people who used a Wingman, while ARs and LMGs only got less people choosing it. This shows the popularity of this specific gun.
Anyway, lets see if EA is going to change this gun in the next patch. Despite that wingman is often being nerfed in these seasons, I think it is still fine to nerf the headshot damage falloff in the future, and it should be fine for us if "headshotting people from medium-long distance is REALLY HARD". - @Xx__Miku831__xX Why can't wingman have 55 bullet mag size? Why can't it be geared with sniper scope? Why is it's projectiles so slow? Why is it's accuracy so trash after its first shot? If you can find the answer to those questions but can't figure out the answer to why it doesn't have damage drop off then you are quite frankly one of the dumbest human beings I have talked to.
Guns are different, they comes with different strengths and weaknesses, different pros and *.. Ok? That is the answer to your question. But for some god freaking reason you can not accept that. I given you plenty of reasons to justify Wingman not having headshot damage drop off at long ranges, but it just keeps falling on deaf ears.
"In the world championship, each team is ALWAYS have people who used a Wingman" Yes. And it makes strategical sense. One of the perks (pros) of wingman is that you don't need a lot of bullets. Something that allows you to have more space for shield batteries and such. Battle Royale games are survival games, the goal is to be the SURVIVING TEAM. So in the light of that you wanna make sure you have enough health and shield refills to endure a long fight. - @HLNorsemane Yea, you said it right.
But seriously, Pistols have its weakness against far targets. Wingman is described as "A powerful pistol", but it is still a "pistol", not a ARs that can shoot far targets and still deal the same amount of headshot damage.
For the second thing, since we only argue about the damage falloff, hence we haven't talk about the second suggestion at the beginning: Doubling the use of bullets of wingman.
You may refer to the beginning and see what I had suggested. I look forward for your idea. - @Xx__Miku831__xX In general, yes, pistols tends to be the weaker 2ndary guns in games, though there are however exceptions to that rule and that exception is socalled "hand cannons". These sidearms tends to not have that many bullets in their magazine, longer reload times, they have massive recoil and terrible bullet spread, poor accuracy and mediocre firing speed, but of course they hit like a truck.
As for the idea of making wingman eating 2 bullets instead of 1 isn't actually terrible per say. It is certainly doable if the devs wanna see even less potential for stacking shield batteries and stuff in the inventory. I don't use the wingman so for me personally such a change would not matter, but I am pretty sure that wingman mains would not be too happy about it. It is after all small modifications resulting in very big changes. @HLNorsemaneMy opinion is that pistols should be good at fighting at short range, able to fight at medium-short range and hard to fight at medium and medium-long range.
Since EA does not identify the positions of pistols well to players, hence it caused problems about the game balance. P2020 is fine after hammerpoint was added to the game, wingman done pretty well at all ranges except hitting those targets who 100+metres (seriously, this should not be identified as a fight when you shoot pistols to those far targets), RE-45 and Mozanbique? They are jokes.
I am surprised that you talk about the damage falloff first before the increase bullet use of wingman. I think this is much more terrible as it really affects the gameplay of wingman users more than just adding a range limit of headshots. Remember the reasons of EA introducing sniper bullets to the game, as they use fewer bullets when compare to all other types of gun (except shotgun), so they added this in order to reduce the chance of stacking more explosives/healings. But I mentioned before, EA failed to classify G7 as it used to be a sniper rifles that used a lot more bullets than other sniper rifles. Wingman faces the same problem, can deal the highest amount of damage per bullet use among guns that use light, heavy and energy ammo, and it is 1.5 times of the second highest damage gun (G7 scouts). It might be really harsh for wingman users that suddenly they need to bring 2 more stacks of heavy ammo to fight, but we cannot adjust the bullet use to 1.5 ammo/shot.
*Actually I want EA to fix this gun instead of putting this into care package, throwing all the problems into care package does not solve the problems. It is funny to see a pistol inside a care package, although I think that Wingman has similar strength when compared to the Devotion.No its not difficult at all, if you have good aim. I`m still new to the game, but i came from CS:GO and i won`t lie i`m very good at aiming, cause i practice a lot on aim trainers, but i don`t use Wingman, except for a 5 minutes warmup routine on the dummies at firing range, but i don`t play it in game, and still if i got it i got zero problem landing my hits on close, mid or long distance. Have in mind that balance is made at the highest possible level of play. So just because bad aimers can`t land their shot with Wingman, doesn`t mean a *. And yeah you won`t land 8 out of 8 shots from a distance, but you need just 2 headshoots to kill someone with white armor and just 3 shots to kill someone with blue/purple/gold and even evo and this is with level 3/4 helmet ...
And still all of the points that i make stand.
And helmets reduce damage for every weapon you know that, not only Wingman?
Also it does more damage to LP legends as well, the situation there is not fun.
In most situation is way better weapon than snipers. It does insane damage, firing rate is insane(for such weapon), and you have 100% of your movement speed while ADS.
Thats why every good aimer is having a lifetime moment when find one. And its quite common as wel.
Again i`m not calling for nerfs or anything i just state that Wingman is hands down best ING. Tho its open for all, so i don`t have problem with it. As i stated if they decide to tune it down, a good way will be to remove the hop-up, let him have season 4 damage, and make him more of a mid range weapon, which will mean to tune it down his power at close and long range a bit.
@Xx__Miku831__xXTruth be told, you need to ignore the fact that Wingman is a pistol. While I agree with your opinion and most FPS games follows that philosophy, this one just can't.. Reason being is that other games restricts you to be able to carry one primary weapon (AR/SMG/Sniper) and one 2ndary weapon (Pistol).
This game does not follow that rule, here you can carry "two primaries" and because of that all the guns in the game kinda has to be within a stones throw away from each others in terms of power, while still maintaining their own identity and their own uniqueness..- @HLNorsemane I agree with your idea that pistols in this game should not be acted like a secondary weapon as they should have distinct advantages and disadvantages against different targets when they are available on the battlefield for them to choose. But wingman is a little strange about that, it acts as good as LMGs/ARs at the medium range (at least you can have a reasonable win rate against them), although you can't really compete with the SMGs/shotgun when you need to fight in short-ranged battle, but it is better than LMGs/ARs in that close range as you have a higher chance to headshot someone. For overall advantages, pistols should have their position between short-ranged weapons to medium-ranged weapons, which it should not act better than SMGs at close range and ARs at medium-long range, but it should act better than SMGs at medium range and ARs at short-medium range, which is similar to LMGs, but having different style of damage output.
- @Xx__Miku831__xX The Wingman is a hand cannon. Because of that, it is viable at medium ranges. But it really depends on what you want for the situation. An auto weapon is more forgiving if you miss, plus you can keep the pressure on. You really need aim.
And because it is a hand cannon, it works somewhat well in CQC. The other LMGs/ARs also work fairly well. All of them aren't as good as a shotgun or SMG. @Xx__Miku831__xXThere is always gonna be a favorite amongst the majority of people, that will never change. Take away wingman and boom, another gun steps up and takes the wingman's place amongst 80%+ of the player base. And then we'll be arguing about that gun instead of the wingman. As much as people loves the wingman though it is not the holy grail of all guns, if it was then you would see people not running around with not just 1 wingman, but 2 wingmen xD
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