Hemlok - How do we improve this weapon?

Question

I've read and heard before that the Hemlok was a strong weapon a couple of seasons ago, with the hip-fire being the main reason for its strength due to how accurate it was. Reading the old patch notes, Respawn proceeded to heavily nerf the hip-fire in Season 8.1 (Chaos Theory patch), make it a gold kit weapon in Season 9 which no one bothered to use, and in Season 10 introduced a hop-up (Boosted Loader) for it and returned some of its hip-fire strength. However, the weapon still feels lackluster to use.

In my games, I've seen people pick it up on drop and then exchange it for a Flatline/SMG immediately. And I wouldn't really fault them for doing that... It has a ~1.24s Body TTK against a Purple Evo whereas the Flatline has a ~0.96s Body TTK, nearly ~25% slower than an easier gun (Flatline) while requiring more attachments to be worthwhile to use. And with the nature of Burst weapons in FPS games, they can be hard to use while tracking someone, having only 1/3 or 2/3 of the burst hitting your enemy at times. This is especially so against strafing enemies too.

My question to everyone is this.. How do we improve the Hemlok so its a more fitting weapon to use rather than being outshined by the Flatline or other SMGs? I weighed some thoughts:

Hemlok can now fit either a standard stock or sniper stock (akin to the CAR being able to fit a Light/Heavy mag)
Boosted Loader reworked to provide more ammo (+6 to Mag size) on Hemlok rather than on a Boosted reload. Additionally, you no longer receive a Boosted reload while low. Instead, you get a Boosted reload after you down or kill an opponent.
(New) Improve TTK by ~8% (or shedding ~0.10secs off TTK) by increasing Rate of Fire. (~1.24s on Purp Evo -> ~1.14s on Purp Evo)

Ideas from others:

Reduce the ADS penalty for the Hemlok
Increase Bullet velocity

myname1snotjohn · Answer

@xDarkomantis I don’t feel that there’s anything wrong with the Hemlok now that the hip fire got rebuffed. To compare it to something like the Flatline is perhaps arbitrary simply due to it being a burst weapon; it is arguably a matter of preference. I personally cannot stand Flatline even though I know it is auto and hits like a truck, I will drop it as soon as possible for something like the Hemlok because I prefer it and because it is much easier to use.

The only weakness to me is the iron sights and as you mentioned difficulty with hitting bursts on moving targets at range but that’s why we have single fire. Also Boosted Hemlok is quite nuts honestly, never would have pegged it for that hop up but perhaps the devs were seeking to answer your question when deciding what guns to apply it to?

Obviously it may be wise to pair a burst gun with an auto weapon or shotgun that handles close range better, but I don’t feel that it is bad compared to certain other weapons to the point that people are immediately trying to swap it out, again I would argue it comes down to preference and comfort. I feel this is a good season for the Hemlok personally.

lordloshbang · Answer

Hemlock is fine as it is.

xdarkomantis · Answer

@MyName1sNotJohn&nbsp;It's not a matter of preference... That's you attributing your own casual experience to the weapon. You're too daft to realize that the Hemlok is put in the same category as the Flatline as an Assault Rifle. To not compare the Hemlok to the Flatline which is an AR, the most popularly used Heavy weapon, and has the best performance in the game is simply dumb.There is no good reason to use Hemlok when the Flatline outperforms it by being the easier gun, having ~25% faster TTK, requiring less attachments, and is effective at the same distances the Hemlok is supposedly good at. While the return of the hip-fire strength made it more worthwhile to use in pubs and slightly on drop, it's not consistent enough to use. Competent players know and are playing Flatline/SMGs among other weapons over the Hemlok.&nbsp;

desertdust91 · Answer

I would start from one statement - assault rifles is the most unpleasant weapon class to use.

There are two reasons for this. Tragic -50% ADS penalty and low damage per shot. You need to stand still to maybe hit for like 14(R-301)/20 damage, wow. Flatline is the most useful gun from that class. It at least deals proper damage. Even R-301 has low clip, low damage and eats ammunition way too fast. From every video you hear "oh its such a standard weapon, you can one clip with it" and so on. Well, not really. If you need to stand still, its better to use LMG's. L-Star and Rampage will do the job better than any assault rifle, and their ADS penalty is only a bit bigger(60%). They hit hard and are rather accurate at reasonable range.

And the problem with wingman. With a damn assault rifle you need to stand still and you maybe hit someone for 20 damage. Meanwhile, a player with wingman can strafe from side to side at full speed and hit you for even 90 damage. So - why someone should take a weapon from the assault rifle class, again? No wonder, that people don't want to use those weapons at all. Sniper rifles have ADS penalty too, but they hit hard. I think i would take sentinel or longbow over any assault rifle - except flatline. If you need to fight at close - take a shotgun. It won't disapoint you like an assault rifle.

We have the havoc, too. Some say "Flatline has difficult recoil pattern, you need to be pr0 to use it well". Have they tried havoc, perhaps? An assault rifle, too - a gun, which isn't used by anyone, unless the player has no other choice. It has terrible ADS penalty and extremely strong recoil, which makes it very difficult to hit at range. After firing some clips from havoc and changing to flatline, player won't feel any recoil - at all. It is essentially a maimed SMG. At point blank it may be useful. I though that assault class were designed to fight at medium range? Maybe i don't know what this means, lol.🤨

And the Hemlok - one thing which would surely encourage me to use it more often would be:

- easing ADS penalty for assault rifles to - 30/35% percent.

- Increase speed of bullets slightly. Now you fire and watch the bullets flying. Like shots from a catapult. Thats why bursts won't hit. It needs to be fixed.

These two things would make it so much better.

xdarkomantis · Answer

@DesertDust91&nbsp;I think it's fine for Assault Rifles to have -50% movement penalty but I think it'd be a good idea to ease Hemlok ADS penalty since it's an in-between of a precision and auto rifle. The increased bullet velocity is good suggestion too.&nbsp;

Forum Discussion

Hemlok - How do we improve this weapon?

8 Replies

About Apex Legends Feedback

Community Highlights

Breakthrough in the Beast Mode Event

Apex Legends™: Anti-cheat and Matchmaking Update

Things that could improve the Firing Range

Recent Discussions

Rework now Bloodhound

SEASON 26 and What I already hate :)

New legend Concept: Beast or Prowler

Matchmaking and TTK

Seer needs a rework ASAP