I will say it outright, Hotdropping is the root of most problems in Apex:Hotdropping gets people so caught up in the chaos that they don't fear the ringHotdropping turns skill into RNG of getting a gunHotdropping turns teamplay into a gaggle of chickens running around with no headsHotdropping halves lobbies in the first ringHotdropping leads to cautious teams never seeing a fight until the very end of the matchHotdropping leads to nearly half the lobby dying before they have even had a chance to play the gameHotdropping leads to teams that don't bother to stick together even after the hotdropHotdropping leads to solo-droppers and impatient teammates who just rush off alone because half the lobby is already dead and they want a fight (but wont play arenas?)Hotdropping leads to unrecoverable teamates and instant-quittingHotdropping leads to not only ratting, but for people to hate on rattingHotdropping turns a battle royal, into crummy worse than arenas experience for the vast majority of the teams that will die in the hotdrop.Hotdropping leads to bad tactical mindsets and awareness, like the "just press w and delete them" mindset devoid of positioning sense.Hotdropping devalues the purpose of placement when getting to 10/20 just consists of not hot dropping.As much as it is a truly clunky solution, they should really test the idea of force-dropping teams into specific zones rather than the dropship flight path. That way you can spread out teams across the map and ensure more actual fights rather than one sided slaughter of people with no guns or ammo. It was always RNG what you would find or where you would be in relation to the first ring, so removing the choice of drop site really does not harm anything.Also there are some people out there who so clearly have never visited some parts of the map because the only hot-drop who could use a bit of map sense from the experience.

@Kinesis862You are 100% right that hot dropping is the root of all evil, and your bullet list should be added to the "Apex Basics" thread.But I have to say, you are 100% wrong to even suggest forced drops. People need to have the freedom to make the wrong choice, even if they make it seven thousand times in a row and learn absolutely nothing from the experience. Me, I'm an unrepentant solo dropper, and I'm not any more likely to let Respawn tell me where to go than I am my own jumpmaster.

@nebwiseThe faster rings are not really a problem if you are not dropped next to enemy players. I have been on plenty of teams that solo-drop the corner of the map, get a really unlucky first ring, but still survive the ring closing when we don't notice till its already on us. If people were forced to spread out then you could instill in players a willingness to pay attention to the first ring location and leave early rather than loitering for so long getting caught up in gun fights or over-looting and just start moving.The two issues most responsible is of course #1 hotdrops, but even if you completely and forcefully removed hotdrops issue #2 is just the loot pools hyper density on maps. If you dropped into a smaller POI then you will usually only loot for like a minute then get moving, but if you solo-drop a large POI then you can expect people to spend way too long trying to gear up. The gear ratio is so very densely in favor of large POIs.But in all honestly #2 is more self inflicted than #1. You can just look at the ring when you land and say "should probably get moving" so I don't really bring it up as much as hotdrops.Meanwhile hotdropping is symptom belonging to multiple causes:Players that should be playing arenas, but for some reason don't. (10 squads in the first 2 seconds of launch)Bad advice streamers saying "just drop hot and press W on those fools." (world's edge)"If you can't win a hotdrop your team is trash and you would have lost anyway" (self-fulfilling prophecy of "the wraith main")"I'll just escape on my own, if they don't too that is their fault" (Movement skill heavy meta, and difficult to revive/protect meta leading to frequent team abandonment)And of course the ranked mentality of "get a team kill from a hotdrop then rat to the end for big gains." (Symptom of placement being overshadowed by a need for kills, resulting in players taking the RNG based approach to securing at least one kill) [Honestly if it was not for all the 'rats are lame' complaining ranked could actually be about surviving as a team rather than just ratting alone in a corner after stealing one kill. Like why not do a "gain points for every ring your team is alive multiplied by the number of alive team members" system. Instead we get the "even if you lived to the end you get nothing for your time and effort to survive unless many other teams die."]

@reconzero Getting 15 kills is the point! Lol. That's better than winning. Of course ranked is different, I'll land safe and play for positioning. But pubs i only care about kills, damage or trying to get badges. In my mind ranked is for playing smart and pubs is for practicing gun skill and movement and stuff for ranked.

@Kinesis862 The faster ring encourages hot-dropping, by punishing players who land edge. If two teams land in the same POI, they have two choices: fight, and get stuck in the ring; or rotate, and get stuck fighting in the ring because every KC rotation ends in a bottleneck.

@reconzero Believe I have a simple solution to this dropping problem. Put it in the tutorial. Currently the tutorial is very basic and only slightly helpful. They should add a simulation match, with bloodhound directing you on the different places to land.Ex: (you ping a spot)Bloodhound: if you land near fragment then you may not move far from there. Landing in spots with lots of people is high risk high reward, choose carefully legend.Putting stuff like this in the tutorial would increase the logical process of players.

Kinesis862

3 years ago

Hotdropping is the root of most problems, including the ring complaints.

I will say it outright, Hotdropping is the root of most problems in Apex:

Hotdropping gets people so caught up in the chaos that they don't fear the ring
Hotdropping turns skill into RNG of getting a gun
Hotdropping turns teamplay into a gaggle of chickens running around with no heads
Hotdropping halves lobbies in the first ring
Hotdropping leads to cautious teams never seeing a fight until the very end of the match
Hotdropping leads to nearly half the lobby dying before they have even had a chance to play the game
Hotdropping leads to teams that don't bother to stick together even after the hotdrop
Hotdropping leads to solo-droppers and impatient teammates who just rush off alone because half the lobby is already dead and they want a fight (but wont play arenas?)
Hotdropping leads to unrecoverable teamates and instant-quitting
Hotdropping leads to not only ratting, but for people to hate on ratting
Hotdropping turns a battle royal, into crummy worse than arenas experience for the vast majority of the teams that will die in the hotdrop.
Hotdropping leads to bad tactical mindsets and awareness, like the "just press w and delete them" mindset devoid of positioning sense.
Hotdropping devalues the purpose of placement when getting to 10/20 just consists of not hot dropping.

As much as it is a truly clunky solution, they should really test the idea of force-dropping teams into specific zones rather than the dropship flight path. That way you can spread out teams across the map and ensure more actual fights rather than one sided slaughter of people with no guns or ammo. It was always RNG what you would find or where you would be in relation to the first ring, so removing the choice of drop site really does not harm anything.

Also there are some people out there who so clearly have never visited some parts of the map because the only hot-drop who could use a bit of map sense from the experience.

maps

16 Replies

reconzero
Seasoned Ace
3 years ago
@Kinesis862

You are 100% right that hot dropping is the root of all evil, and your bullet list should be added to the "Apex Basics" thread.

But I have to say, you are 100% wrong to even suggest forced drops. People need to have the freedom to make the wrong choice, even if they make it seven thousand times in a row and learn absolutely nothing from the experience. Me, I'm an unrepentant solo dropper, and I'm not any more likely to let Respawn tell me where to go than I am my own jumpmaster.
nebwise
3 years ago
@reconzero The idea that "people are making the wrong choice" is a bit off base. Many, many players simply don't want to wait any length of time to fight. They play AL strictly for the gunplay, and have no interest in tactics, strategy, or winning. They believe they are making the "right" decision, and there is no learning curve or map design that will change their minds.
nebwise
3 years ago
@Kinesis862 The faster ring encourages hot-dropping, by punishing players who land edge. If two teams land in the same POI, they have two choices: fight, and get stuck in the ring; or rotate, and get stuck fighting in the ring because every KC rotation ends in a bottleneck.
reconzero
Seasoned Ace
3 years ago
@nebwise

"The idea that "people are making the wrong choice" is a bit off base."

It's off base if you do not accept that the object of the game is to win. I agree that many people don't act as if it is and don't care that it is, and I respect that as far as it goes, even when they're my squadmates. I won't help them commit suicide, and I won't let them take me down with them, but I let them do whatever it is they feel the need to do and I don't yell at them about it or call them idiots. Even though that's often what I get called for "not having their back." But none of that can alter the immutable truth that this game is designed to be won, and behaving in a contrary way will not suddenly make the game anything other than survival-based.
"Many, many players simply don't want to wait any length of time to fight."
These players should probably be playing in arenas, or in some other arena-shooter game. CoD. Halo. Overwatch. Whatever the flavor-of-the-month happens to be.
Kinesis862
3 years ago
@nebwiseThe faster rings are not really a problem if you are not dropped next to enemy players. I have been on plenty of teams that solo-drop the corner of the map, get a really unlucky first ring, but still survive the ring closing when we don't notice till its already on us. If people were forced to spread out then you could instill in players a willingness to pay attention to the first ring location and leave early rather than loitering for so long getting caught up in gun fights or over-looting and just start moving.
The two issues most responsible is of course #1 hotdrops, but even if you completely and forcefully removed hotdrops issue #2 is just the loot pools hyper density on maps. If you dropped into a smaller POI then you will usually only loot for like a minute then get moving, but if you solo-drop a large POI then you can expect people to spend way too long trying to gear up. The gear ratio is so very densely in favor of large POIs.
But in all honestly #2 is more self inflicted than #1. You can just look at the ring when you land and say "should probably get moving" so I don't really bring it up as much as hotdrops.
Meanwhile hotdropping is symptom belonging to multiple causes:
Players that should be playing arenas, but for some reason don't. (10 squads in the first 2 seconds of launch)
Bad advice streamers saying "just drop hot and press W on those fools." (world's edge)
"If you can't win a hotdrop your team is trash and you would have lost anyway" (self-fulfilling prophecy of "the wraith main")
"I'll just escape on my own, if they don't too that is their fault" (Movement skill heavy meta, and difficult to revive/protect meta leading to frequent team abandonment)
And of course the ranked mentality of "get a team kill from a hotdrop then rat to the end for big gains." (Symptom of placement being overshadowed by a need for kills, resulting in players taking the RNG based approach to securing at least one kill) [Honestly if it was not for all the 'rats are lame' complaining ranked could actually be about surviving as a team rather than just ratting alone in a corner after stealing one kill. Like why not do a "gain points for every ring your team is alive multiplied by the number of alive team members" system. Instead we get the "even if you lived to the end you get nothing for your time and effort to survive unless many other teams die."]
1unown1
3 years ago
@Kinesis862 The S in FPS is shooter and that's the fun part of the game. Most people are going for kills and damage most don't care about winning.
1unown1
3 years ago
@reconzero The idea that if people want to fight they should play arenas is crazy. Fighting in BR's is the most fun. Arenas is just holding angles. I didn't know so many people were concerned with winning. I mean what's the point if you only get 4 kills and win. I consider that a loss
reconzero
Seasoned Ace
3 years ago
@1unown1

"what's the point if you only get 4 kills and win."

What's the point of getting 15 kills and losing? I consider that a loss. And so does Respawn.
BigMacAttack8u
3 years ago
@reconzero Believe I have a simple solution to this dropping problem. Put it in the tutorial. Currently the tutorial is very basic and only slightly helpful. They should add a simulation match, with bloodhound directing you on the different places to land.
Ex: (you ping a spot)
Bloodhound: if you land near fragment then you may not move far from there. Landing in spots with lots of people is high risk high reward, choose carefully legend.

Putting stuff like this in the tutorial would increase the logical process of players.
reconzero
Seasoned Ace
3 years ago
@BigMacAttack8u

Absolutely great idea. I wish there had been something like this when I started playing.