Inventory Change and Loot nerfs
The purpose behind this patch was to reduce grenade spam at the end of the match, the idea is fine but I think the nerf of ammo from 80 to 60 is an extremely bad move. Even reducing the amount of shi...
Forum Discussion
@Sir_Named yes you're absolutely correct, grenade now takes up 1 slot each and with ammo and heals nerfed there aren't enough space to carry grenades anymore.Also carrying them doesn't mean they'd do 100% damage on enemy, 90% of time my nades do barely 20-30 damage.
@SolitaryMassacre I started the thread mainly to point out the issues of ammo and heals nerfing which is a crap move and I am genuinely pissed because 160 bullets in 2 slots was perfect for me to use r99/flatline or 301/flatline combo but now 120 is not enough and 180 takes up too much space with a lvl 1 backpack. Same with heals you could heal 3 times to purple sheild with 2 slots but now it's just 2 which really sucks when you get third partied and are out of heals. I'm cool with the 1:1 grenade slot nerf though.
Also, saying this respectfully that if people do not like grenades they should really migrate to games which are purely based on guns, grenades were always a part of the game and it's always legit to carry a purple bag full of nades with no ammo or heals, it depends on the player itself. You don't do it, I don't do it doesn't really matter. But it's legit and we the people who carry no nades or 1 nade have no right to speak foul on them because we got rekt by some nades in a few match. I lose too man due to people throwing nades but I take it as a part of the game and move on to the next one instead of crying like babies that I got "grEnADe sPaMMeD"
@Sir_Named
So you are right with the situation, which is exactly my argument about it. Situations where people grenade spam are when the opponent is tucked nicely in cover, which is playing smart. So now they plant four grenades around you and boom you are dead. You can't even run away. If you limit to 2, then you can drop two grenades next to them (or more if you coordinate with your squad) but that is it
@Dokuganryu699
I know why you posted the thread, and I am saying the only thing they needed to change was adding a grenade pouch and limiting grenades to 2, and leave everything else alone. But the reason they nerfed the other things was to try and force you to choose, ammo, grenades, or heals? I always go heals and ammo.
Also, there is a difference of "loosing to grenades" vs "getting grenade spammed"
I'll explain it: "Loosing to grenades" - You do a lot of damage with your gun, but didn't drop them. They ran behind cover and now you can't shoot them but leaving your cover will get you killed. You lob one or two grenades into their cover and kill/drop them. Perfect.
"Grenade spammed" - You just finished a squad/set up your defense, you are hunkered down ready to take on the last few squads. Suddenly, out of nowhere (because you can chuck grenades for miles) you have 7 grenades land around you, now what? What in god's name are you gonna do? How, with how powerful and how wide the blast radius is, can you get away? If they tossed arc stars, yeah it may do 5 damage, but you are STILL slowed down a lot, now you are a sitting duck. Its just too easy and I accept they are part of the game too, but they make it too easy. My argument isn't about finding a new game, but about making this already good game even better by allowing more fun. Nobody likes getting dropped because someone threw something. Aiming takes skill, lobbing a grenade doesn't. It just doesn't make sense to have so many grenades on you.
So you are right with the situation, which is exactly my argument about it. Situations where people grenade spam are when the opponent is tucked nicely in cover, which is playing smart. So now they plant four grenades around you and boom you are dead. You can't even run away. If you limit to 2, then you can drop two grenades next to them (or more if you coordinate with your squad) but that is it
@Dokuganryu699
I know why you posted the thread, and I am saying the only thing they needed to change was adding a grenade pouch and limiting grenades to 2, and leave everything else alone. But the reason they nerfed the other things was to try and force you to choose, ammo, grenades, or heals? I always go heals and ammo.
Also, there is a difference of "loosing to grenades" vs "getting grenade spammed"
I'll explain it: "Loosing to grenades" - You do a lot of damage with your gun, but didn't drop them. They ran behind cover and now you can't shoot them but leaving your cover will get you killed. You lob one or two grenades into their cover and kill/drop them. Perfect.
"Grenade spammed" - You just finished a squad/set up your defense, you are hunkered down ready to take on the last few squads. Suddenly, out of nowhere (because you can chuck grenades for miles) you have 7 grenades land around you, now what? What in god's name are you gonna do? How, with how powerful and how wide the blast radius is, can you get away? If they tossed arc stars, yeah it may do 5 damage, but you are STILL slowed down a lot, now you are a sitting duck. Its just too easy and I accept they are part of the game too, but they make it too easy. My argument isn't about finding a new game, but about making this already good game even better by allowing more fun. Nobody likes getting dropped because someone threw something. Aiming takes skill, lobbing a grenade doesn't. It just doesn't make sense to have so many grenades on you.
- @SolitaryMassacre Well, depends on what situation you consider smart. Sure, it is smart as a solo caustic to camp a house, but I would think it is a viable play to throw a ton of grenades in order to flush him out.
Most smart places to hide or camp still allow you to escape easily. (And by smart, I don’t mean that you are trying to find the darkest corner in order to hide. I mean a good sniping position, or a camping position, or the high ground in zone.) @SolitaryMassacre Well man I won't mind or rather I do not mind at all if someone had stocked up 7 grenades by sacrifising ammo and their chances to fight with the last squad with gun. I don't mind mate. They can carry 0 ammo and 16 nades I won't mind. That's purely their choise. And tbh I very much do not understand why it pisses off people like you don't do it or I don't do it doesn't mean no one will do it. That's a part of strategy, maybe apex could have changed the accuracy of the grenade like you can't throw accurately from over a distance of 50 meters or something similar to that and it would have encouraged people to stop carrying nades and throwing them accurately from large distances.
@Sir_Named again I'd agree with ya, many people do camp with gold armors and fully kitted weapons at circle ending areas and it's really tough to break in through caustic traps so we do need serious amount of grenades at those times, 2 grenades won't do anything during those scenarios as you have like 10% chance to hit one of the three camping with 2 grenades and it's barely do 20-30 damage to them overall.- @Dokuganryu699
It doesn't "* me off" it makes the game extremely boring and not fun to play. All of you use the phrase "flush them out" etc, but you are missing the fact that the grenades (especially arc stars) do so much damage. If you are anywhere near it you get 70 damage done. Its like 5m I think. Not to mention the fact the arc stars slow you down like crazy. Even if they do 20-30 damage, YOU ARE STILL SLOWED DOWN!! You become a sitting duck and with how strong all the weapons are, its so easy to drop them
The best grenade in this game is the thermite. That grenade isn't "OP" or "UP". It is perfect. You block someone's path and if you run through it, you get a little damage over time, its not instant. I don't even think it slows you down so you can still get away. But you drop like 3 arc stars in the same area, you have to remember that the first one will go off, slowing you down (even if it only does 3 damage) but guess what, now the second grenade goes off, that one does 70 damage. OH YAY im slowed down again! :D Now the 3rd one goes off, does 70 damage again! Wooo. 143 damage. One shot from a longbow I am done, one shot from a sentinel I am done, one shot from any sniper I am done. How is that "strategical" you just threw grenades down that is all. You didn't shoot me, you didn't sneak up and ambush me, you just dropped grenades from miles away. And with the little arc that is drawn, it is so easy to plant grenades.
My problem is that grenades (mostly arc stars) are too OP. There are other ways of solving this than limiting players to 2, but I think that makes it better because you have a specific grenade pouch and it won't take up precious inventory. In reality, you don't need that much ammo in this game.. I always panic if I am under 100. But I have won matches with less and am starting to let myself carry more heals instead of ammo.
@Sir_Named
Those "ton of grenades" won't flush him out, it will drop him. And for the person who threw the grenades, how was that skill and tactical? How was that being smart? Being smart in your situation would be to ambush them. Draw them out. Shoot out his traps, run around the back (there isn't only one entrance to a building) and get him that way. Or even shoot through the windows. To flush someone out in your situation only requires one grenade. That is a tactical play, that is using your brain and being smart with the situation. By limiting grenades you make it more tactical and a smarter play then just tossing grenades.
Just the same as you can "camp" you can also corner someone with grenades, even if they are in the open. That is not playing smart. I am all about playing smart but use some skill and thought into it. More thought than just lobbing grenades.
Again, I mostly am talking about arc stars, not frag or thermites. So like I said before, there are other options to solve the problem I bring up. @SolitaryMassacre I can't imagine a Caustic leaving a trapped building to escape one grenade. Dodge the grenade or tank the damage but it'll take a lot more to force me out of a strategically strong position.
- @SolitaryMassacre Well, how else would I flush out the Caustic? The only main counter would be a Crypto EMP, and even then he can place more traps afterward and/or use his ult. Sure, you can shoot through the windows, but the Caustic will just stay away from them and put his traps out of the way. Plus, if you keep shooting, you are likely to get 3rd partied.
Besides, if it’s a medium sized house, one grenade won’t be enough. The Caustic could hide behind some terrain inside the house, or change floors.
Sure, I could try some 500 iq play and flip flop around all the entrances, but that would take a significant amount of time and effort just for a single Caustic, and it could even get me third partied.
Sure, you could get arc stars landing all around you, but there is usually some kind of cover, even in a relatively open area. Even if there isn’t, or you can’t get to it, you have legend abilities. Many legends can reduce or nullify the effects of grenades using their abilities. Granted, getting hit by grenades deals a lot of damage, but getting one shot while low with a sniper isn’t unusual. The Sentinel can 2-3 shot you normally, the Longbow takes 2-4, and other snipers are around that. The point of snipers is to deal a lot of damage per shot. Heck, with just one of any grenade, the Kraber can 1-shot you to the body. You don’t even need the grenade if you hit head.
Also, if you are getting grenade spammed from long range, your teammates should be able to revive before the enemy can reach you.
I also don’t really see how it is just arc stars. Frags actually do more damage, and knock you back a little. If they threw 3 frags in the same area as you, it would seem like it would have a similar effect as 3 arc stars. @Zamaha400 yeh even I won't leave my camped place unless I'm being thrown grenades in, and that too like 7-10 grenades, otherwise I see no reason for anyone to leave their perfectly camped place and that too if the ring ends there itself.
@Sir_Named Man it seems like you're speaking exactly what my thoughts are. Most of the legends can nullify effect of grenades and as I said grenades hardly do 30 damage most of the times as they don't blast right on the enemy. And about legends nullifying wraith can just run through nades I saw a random teammate I got run over 3 arcstars in the house while we got slowed down a bit.
Also agree fully to the fact that long range grenade hits can be avoided or teammates can be revived and the people who spam can also get blown up by their own grenades if played wisely.@SolitaryMassacre does it really make the game boring? and does majority of people playing with r99/pk combo doesn't make the game boring? anyway, i personally don't take any offence if I'm drowned in grenades so I don't think it makes the game boring plus I've quite easily dodged and have seen my teammates dodge arcstars (3-4 in a row) many times, most of the times they don't hit you as i said before and if it does you're in bad luck lol. otherwise it's easy for most of the legends to just run past them before they detonate.
And infact the thermite grenade is a bit OP, it surpasses and hits you over doors, that's quite OP but yet again I don't mind as grenades are part of the game and there you go.I do like grenade pouch idea and have even suggested it before in this thread but if you're limited to carry nades then wattson's ultimate becomes mostly useless . Think about everything, wattson was made to counter grenades.
Also, it's not about being under 100 but it's more about having the freedom to use two automatic weapon of different ammo type. It could be done previously, a r99/flatline or r99/301 combo with 160 ammo (5+ rounds) on each guns. Now it's just 120 each which isn't quite sufficient in case of a third party invasion and having 180 in 3 slots is luxury i.e. dedicating 6 slots to ammo with a level 1 backpack is serious luxury and with heals being nerfed too it causes quite a problem especially during third party scenarios which is very frequent in game.
- @Zamaha400
One well placed grenade, is much more tactical then throwing 5+ grenades. If you know the caustic is on <insert floor, area here> then throw the grenade there, He clearly will move. If not he will tank the damage, great! Now you can go in and kill him even with his traps. Shoot out the ones in the area and go get him, you are a squad of 3, not 1v1. And like I said, if you have 2 grenades, you can easily get him out of there. Secondly, I hardly ever carry grenades, only in the beginning will you see me with grenades. That being said, I never have any trouble with a caustic (or whole squad) camping inside a building. Hell, your caustic could be camping with a Wattson and her ult. Now your grenades are useless. Now how you going to get them out?
@Sir_Named
The cover is useless when it comes to arc stars. I don't know if it was a glitch, but I still got hit by an arc star through cover. The electric part went through the wall and got me. Granted the damage was very low but it also slows you down.
And I have listed ways to get through the caustic in a building. I will say it again. I never have grenades at the end of a game, I have dealt with caustics camping a building, I have got them downed/dead. I did not use grenades. Grenade limiting will cause you to be more creative and strategical with your game play instead of simply throwing a crap ton of grenades. If you get third partied, then you retreat. Simple as that. Let the caustic deal with them. I hate when my squad and I get 3rd partied and I'm halfway across the map healing and they all go in and try to fight, its pointless. But you guys keep bringing up other situations about the grenade problem. The whole "3rd partied cause I had to shoot the caustic traps" like, bro, you get 3rd partied for grenades too.
And you bringing up the point of "one grenade" and body shot from kraber will down you is exactly what I was talking about in my previous post, when I said arc stars slow you down so much it makes it extremely easy to laser them with any weapon and down them.
It is just arc stars because of the slow down effect. Frag grenades can hit hard yes, but the fact they yeet you is actually kind of nice. I have used this to my advantage many times. In that case, 4 frags were thrown my direction, I got yeeted by the first one, and guess what, I was well clear of the other 3 and was closer to the cover I was running too. I got clear of the enemy and was able to heal. So frag grenades would not have a similar effect as arc stars. If those were arc stars, I know damn well I would have been dead lol.
Also, where are you getting this whole "Legends have abilities to nullify grenades" idea from? I can think of ONE legend - Wraith. Pathfinder, yes can zip away, but its not a nullifier, leaves him opened to gunshots. Octance, same as pathfinder (even worse cause your health took a hit). So I don't think the whole "legends can nullify grenades" holds any water.
@Dokuganryu699
Yes it makes the game boring. We are talking about grenades in this thread, go to my comments on the other threads about the PK and R99. (PK is very boring yes, R99, at close ranges is good, if I get lasered from 50m+ by an R99, *.) Back on topic......
But thremite isn't OP, yes it can go through doors but so can arc stars. Thermite is perfectly balanced. It does damage over time, and it blocks your path. I got dealt 50 dams from it when I ran through one to revive my squadmmate. But I easily used 2 shield cells when I got to cover (because I wasn't slowed down by dumb arc stars lol)
For a legend to "easily run past them before they detonate" I don't understand. If they threw grenades around you, the blast radius is so great you have no time to run through the blast radius without receiving significant damage, even if you receive a little damage, the arc star slows you, a lot. I think you all keep forgetting about that.
I was making the reference to the ammo count not as an argument really, just something I have noticed of myself. I'm not for or against anything here, just stating the nerf to all other inventory items was to hopefully make players leave a grenade down and pick up something else. I read in a review that the entire inventory changes were 100% made to combat grenade spam.
However, it didn't work because grenades (mainly arc stars) are too OP, hence why I liked the grenade pouch idea. And this wouldn't break wattsons ult because you can get more than one squad on you when you are setup, it actually is better to stay where you are camped then to leave if wattson has the whole area locked down. So limiting grenades via a grenade pouch is not going to break or make wattson's ult useless.
All of you also state "20-30" damage, well that is a lot in this game. Not only that, multiply that by the 5 you just threw... yeah now what? And if they were arc stars, you are slowed down so much you have no way of getting out of there. With this, I have been downed before the last arc star even went off because of how much it slows you down.
You all also say "it is part of the game" or "i don't mind it" my guess is you are the ones spamming grenades xD. And like I said before, it just requires zero skill or planning with 5+ grenades. They are so OP.
Another thing I want to make note of is the fact the arc stars are slowing you down, AND do damage. Every other game has a "lethal" and "tactical" grenade type, I wish this did too. Arc stars are both and deal a serious amount of damage. Again, nerfing them would also help the grenade spam, and I am not against other methods of fixing grenade spam (because yes it is an actual thing in this game, it is not just people complaining) I just think the grenade pouch was the easiest and best way to help solve it. @SolitaryMassacreWell, first, you won’t know exactly where the Caustic is. (Unless you have crypto or bloodhound). Chances are, the Caustic could still get behind cover or avoid the grenade even if you know where they are.
Also, arc stars shouldn’t be hitting you through walls and stuff. If they are, it’s less that the arc stars need to be nerfed, and more that they need to be fixed.
Sure, one really well placed grenade is good, but you know what’s easier? A couple of less well-places grenades.
Yeah, you’ll get third parties for throwing grenades, but at least you can deal damage easier, and the hope is you kick the Caustic out or kill them. With a gun, you need line of sight, which would be difficult to get in this situation.
The arc star does slow you down, but it is for .75 of a second, which still allows you other options. (I tested this, but I don’t know the exact number. It’s a bit less than a second though.) You could crouch and jump to throw off their aim, or use almost any legend ability.
Speaking of Legend abilities, I also said that they can reduce the effects of grenades. Gibraltar has his gun shield, and his dome shield. Pathfinder can grapple away. Bangalore moves faster when she’s * at and when grenades are thrown at her. Wattson has her ult.
Besides, you don’t even need to be that far away.
(Look at the image I attached)
You could easily make up that distance by running.
I don’t think I said 20-30 damage anywhere, but 20x5 is only 100, and 30x5 is 150. This is much less damage than someone should be able to do with 5 grenades, and you can easily heal that damage with a 5 second shield battery and a few syringes.@SolitaryMassacre Look man, every game has something 'S' tier stuffs that's being favoured by everyone over other stuffs. Although I simply hate people always using pk/r99 combo and offer no variety to the gun fights makes the game boring for me but does that stop people from using the combo of pk and r99? Nope. And do you see me going in forums or other platforms crying about this? Nope you won't see me doing that. Why? Because I know that I might hate it but people love using it. Likewise arcstars are popular mostly due to the fact that they slow you down, I personally do not care for an arcstar to hit you, I'm very cool with the 20-30 damage it does and once it slows you down that's my chance to empty a clip on you so even if you or others feel that it makes game boring you shall accept it and not cry to the devs that I don't like this or can't deal with this so pls nerf nades again (said this since you said grenades are boring in gameplay)
You do not understand the run past grenades part? You see thermites detonate almost on impact while frags and arcstars takes a few seconds to detonate. I have seen and I myself do it now after observing good players, they simply move on from the part where you threw the grenade and just dance towards you or move aside even if you pull out 4-5 grenades. Most people do not throw the grenades in a line so I've seen them side stepping atleast 4 arcstars and it's more easy to do the same with frags, just a few days ago I saved myself from 3 frag grenades while I just landed and had no sheilds on.On the ammo count most of the people I guess would like to have 80s stack back, I personally would love the same just to use my favourite gun combos again.
Also you're wrong on Wattson't ult part, now it helps counter the arcstars thrown in at a camping squad but if you nerf the number of grenades more by introducing grenade pouches then the ult becomes useless. A legend's ult can't exist just to succ up 2-3 grenades lol. And you don't get third partied while you're fighting with a squad, most third party wait for you to finish and then jump on you so it's extremely rare that 2 squads will attack you and that too with grenades.
Multiplied it by 5, so what? 100-150 damage if 5 of the arcstars manage to keep that guy in their blast radius but no one throws grenades with that much plan so it's more like random and you're like about to get hit by half of the grenades thrown at you so you'd barely recieve 60 damage and a bit of slowdown but you can literally run for cover after that and with a purple sheild and the max evo sheilds now 60 damage isn't really a big deal unless you're in top 5 and are equipped with a lvl 1 sheild (happens i've been unlucky a few times with sheilds too)
I say "I don't mind" at both situations or rather all situations that's legal. Unless it's cheating or some bug that's been abused (which is again some form of cheating) I really don't mind people using things and strategies. I hate the pk/r99 stuff as it offers no variety I'm okay with that too, I myself get rekt by grenades in some matches I'm okay with that too. And I do really think people should stop crying about stuffs just because they got rekt or lost. If it's cheating cry, just don't cry but shout and do whatever you want but man if it's legal way pls stop.
Also I manage to store just 3 arcstars now after the inventory update in a purple backpack so if you call throwing 3 arcstars at a squad "grEnADe sPAmMiNG" then hell yeah i do it. With blue and lower backpacks I usually can't carry nades due to space management.
Also take a look at what @Sir_Named said above this, that's exactly what my thoughts are about kicking out a caustic camping inside.
