Forum Discussion

CapedCrusader42's avatar
CapedCrusader42
New Novice
10 months ago

Ranked SBMM

I understand the reasoning behind SBMM, and I think it makes sense in pubs, but not ranked. I know It’s to help new players against smurfs, but that’s part of the game. Respectfully, if ranked worked, the sweaty smurf accounts should progress quickly and get to higher ranks. So why further subgroup ranked?

Issue 1:

Respectfully, the new bar to show who’s in the lobby doesn’t answer our concerns. The concern is  that we frequently see people of higher ranked the season previously (diamond/masters/pred banner frame) throughout every level of our ranked grind.

Issue 2:

The second (and main) issue is that with SBMM, you have different “skill buckets” in the same rank. I play with a squad. One teammate is better than me, one is significantly behind us. Yet the one who is lower skilled has significantly easier lobbies (based on screen shot he sends when he wins vs when he plays in our lobbies) and is currently a higher rank than we are. Is that a fair ranked system?

I suggest doing placement matches to start off each season and split. This will separate the starting point based on skill. Could we also add just a smidge less points for placement so games go faster. Not a lot faster, but just to speed up the mid game. Love the game, the community, and big shout out to the devs for all their work!

Can anyone relate or is this just a skill issue? Lol

gameplay discussion

7 Replies

  • reconzero's avatar
    reconzero
    Seasoned Ace
    10 months ago
    @CapedCrusader42

    You've hit on several different factors that make rank grinding a misery, but you have to remember that they call it a "grind" for a reason.

    And there is nothing on your list that gets better if sbmm is removed. It only gets worse. With issue #2, for example, you're not calling out a failure of sbmm - you're calling out the failure of every single team-based shooter that ever existed. People of disparate skills playing on the same team is always a problem. In your example you think your lower-skilled buddy has it easy because he's currently higher ranked than you. But remember for a moment that when he plays with you he's in lobbies he can't handle. And if you and the other guy are just carrying him then very, very soon things will start to go poorly for him whether he queues with you or solos. These things are self-leveling, given enough time. Believe me when I say, nobody gets a free ride in this game regardless of rank or skill. Except cheaters. Which is a whole other problem we don't need to get into.
  • CapedCrusader42's avatar
    CapedCrusader42
    New Novice
    10 months ago

    Hi! Thank you for your response. While I totally understand and agree about it being a grind, my issue is with the subgrouping within ranked. Here is an excerpt from EA about the new ranked system:

    1. We are in the process of retiring our old Skill Based Matchmaking (SBMM) system for a new one that more accurately groups our players based on skill, and thus lets our matchmaking algorithm make better decisions when forming groups. The end goal is to create fairer matches and experiences that are more fun for all. 

    My concern is that if lower skilled people are paired in easier lobbies, they can make it farther than better players with just more time, not more skill. Similarly, higher skilled players are consistently grouped with high skilled players, even in lower levels. That Isn’t a true representation of your rank.

  • reconzero's avatar
    reconzero
    Seasoned Ace
    10 months ago
    @CapedCrusader42

    "My concern is that if lower skilled people are paired in easier lobbies, they can make it farther than better players with just more time, not more skill. Similarly, higher skilled players are consistently grouped with high skilled players, even in lower levels. That Isn’t a true representation of your rank."

    Your concern is legitimate if you believe that most lower skill players will remain lower skill forever. And that's not usually the case. Most of them will improve over time and start moving up the ladder. How far they move and how fast they get there is another issue. But it doesn't sound at all to me as if Respawn is attempting to assess skill early in the season and then just lock a player into perpetually easy or hard lobbies based on that early experience. It sounds like they're trying to match teams in the same way they match lobbies, which is to say all three teammates or roughly equal skill. I'll believe that when I see it.
  • r1ggedgame's avatar
    r1ggedgame
    Seasoned Ace
    10 months ago
    @CapedCrusader42 Just ask yourself the question :
    If the SBMM Blogpost from Samy Duc would reflect the InGame Reality ... why are there still so many rants on this Forum about the Matchmaking ?
    Simple Answer : The Blogpost doesnt reflect the InGame reality ...
  • CapedCrusader42's avatar
    CapedCrusader42
    New Novice
    10 months ago

    Thank you for taking the time to read and respond. I know I’ve said a lot, but what drove me to write this (in hopes respawn sees this) is I’m just pointing out a discrepancy in skill in my actual game play with my friends. Said friend is Plat 3, has over 100 games more than me on the season and does decent damage in games (600-800+) when playing alone (he sends screenshots). However, when he plays with me in my current “Gold 3” lobbies, he barely does 200-300 damage and doesn’t usually win 1v1s.

     

    He has always been stuck in Gold before SBMM but with the addition of SBMM, he is in Plat and has hit Diamond. This shows that even though he hasn’t been progressing in skill (with all love and respect, he hasn’t), he’s able to progress his rank anyway because SBMM is pairing him with other lower skilled players and his rank isn’t an actual representation of his skill, it’s more just a representation of how long he plays.

     

    Meanwhile, a more skilled player in silver and gold is hitting a wall due to their higher SBMM rating pairing them with better players vs using their actual rank to match players together. If rank actually represented your skill, you wouldn’t need to have a background SBMM operating in addition to your rank, right? You could just use placement matches to start everyone at different ranks at the begging of the season and fill lobbies by rank +/- 1 tier if needed.

  • r1ggedgame's avatar
    r1ggedgame
    Seasoned Ace
    10 months ago

    @CapedCrusader42

    Rank != Skill
    i also get ranked matches with people parading 20bombs and 4k badges , often same or higher "rank" and they just melt away in my lobbies, doing a fraction of the damage or simply doing the most stupid tactical decisions.

    The only rank seasons that are actually worth the rank in skill are the most hated by the so called "casuals" : S6, S13 Split 1, S18, S19.

    And guess which seasons are said to be the most easy ones ... S5, S12, S17 ... can you see the theme why the others got  hated 😉 ? 

    But on the other hand its a good indicator , if you see smb parading a s17 or s12 diamond/master badge you'll instantly know what to expect ...
    A real master would be embarrassed flashing that s17 badge ...

    Respawn SBMM deals you crap players or unfilled teams on purpose.
    Wouldnt look good if one of their content creators would loose 100s of games in a row, so you get to play as cannon fodder

  • OnclePicsmurf's avatar
    OnclePicsmurf
    9 months ago

    who care about ranks in apex legend anyway , it's the worst competitive game ever since solo player are mixed with 3stacks , if anything  it's a handicap to grind in this game since you get to play against more cheaters/3stacks the more you climb.

    then ppl wonder why everyone smurf  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    peak design failure

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