Re: Aim Assist

@Sand_spitter

I would agree on the part that overall one mag takes time to practice.
I would disagree on the part about the experience. My and other people's posts probably as well regarding "old debate MNK vs controller aka AA" originate exactly due to this fact.

As I mentioned before all the negativity comes from the fact that you put in work, do training, have previous FPS experience and then you meet a childish behavior incompetent never caring player who doesn't even focus on the game and bang - one mag + controller comes up again and again and again, like they are winning jackpot every time or I just keep being lucky via being the target on their best time and date over and over again.

Strafing - sure, but it is overrated in Apex, we talked about that before. Here is example from yesterday: https://youtu.be/GSgo5LTTDag

As you see the fight goes something like this:

- I notice him first, start preaiming

- he catches me on counter movement and miss the pattern leading to missing all my shots
yet a note he missed all his shots as well shooting twice as many 5 vs like 10-14

- he tapstrafes to miss my last bullet, I messed up the positioning which forced open space reload

- he reloads while tapstrafing and gains the advantage + distance and now lands almost all bullets

- closes distance even more so, keeps landing bullets while I switch to prowler (usually good hipfiring) and still miss most of my shots

- I get knocked actually by the shot from his teammate yet I was still 1 hit before that and just broke white on Caustic = would not make any difference

Might seem like he moved great, yet in reality I just had 2x on a close range which is not ideal and messed up my positioning. If I would have been closer to the pipe aka cover during reload that fight would still be 50/50 despite him strafing and tapping and me just ADSing with Wingman.

Regarding distance - I personally don't do that unless forced by some factors like 3rd part. E.g. if I am on a distance fight with one team in a building that is strategically important and a 3rd party comes in - it becomes all or nothing and you have to force the issue because choice eventually is either you take a super disadvantageous position and die later but with 100% certainty (being sandwiched or eventually killed by the zone pushing in) or you take a risk and try to take the best position.

Another factor I am still trying to understand and fine-tune if possible is Apex way of displaying player models - I still can't get a smooth picture, people in a distance of 100+m look worse than Mario first game, here is an example: https://youtu.be/VYT2ood_H8Y
I broke the enemy, landed a decent amount of shots, yet those were totally shots in the dark - I could not really see the player's movement due to the crosshair size being bigger than the model, could not predict his movement - all shots were just blind guesses never the less.
Getting to my point - sometimes people with MNK close the distance because they don't see the enemy 🙂 probably true to Controller players which leads to the reality of Apex - most fights take place in close range aka Controller territory.

Also for me as a player who plays on a lower end sensitivity - 0.2 in-game + 3900 dpi with minimal mouse accel - close-range tracking is easier, it just feels more doable and when I move my arm not just fingertips I kind of feel the work being done and in most cases maybe track behind but definitely do not overshoot that often (actually seen in the clip with the Wraith killing me which was posted earlier - tracking was good just behind the target).

Other than that and the fact that I come from basically sniper mode Quake my range is 200m or so + Bow (2x/3x), Sentinel (3x+), G7 (3x+), Hemlock (2x+). Nowadays I make myself use Wingman with 2x (was actually very successful yesterday with it sniping people from the bridge between Climatezer and Epicenter, while they were camping with snipers and TT in the high ground tower in Epicenter...until they placed an Octane jumpad and Ash ported onto me in a second creating close range 3v1 which ended almost instantly.

@Eshshshssthat's happened to me so many times. But it actually proves the importance of movement. Also importance of getting your aim on point. From what I see he out maneuvered you. When I practiced aim I never stood still, ever. I always made sure to be moving so as to try and counter that scenario. Easier said than done, I know.

Use 1x or ironsights on Wingman only, after a while you'll find the gun easier to use like that no joke. Actually, just use ironsights and call it a day.

I 100% understand and agree with not being able to see people properly. I say it's just bad design cause things blend into the background way too easily. The colors aren't done right in Apex. So many times I have trouble seeing who shot at me and trying to rely on the audio to tell me where they're coming from when I get to cover don't work either. But when I say close I mean like punching distance, lol, some people like to get way up in your grill like that 😁

When dialing in my settings I just copied Lululuvely's lol, her's is a bit on the high end but felt right to me as I'm used to high - makes recoil control a freaking breeze. 1.5 with 800dpi if I remember correctly though not entirely sure, no mouse accel ever.

I’m gonna be honest this topic just turned into a 7 paragraph controversy back and forth so I didn’t read 60% of it... and just skimmed it

Contoller players on pc do in fact show the pc symbol instead of a controller symbol if that was never clarified

Aim assist slows down your cursor speed and ‘’curves’’ around your opponent but doesn’t aim for you and in my experience only helps in close range fights while at midrange the recoil is all over the place because it doesn’t really help even with an R-301 but personally I hate R-301 and have better recoil control with a flatline at close-mid ish 

I will say this though, I was outside of a building and I heard someone inside and when I used ADS towards a window I was still receiving that aim assist curve effect like you see on the dummies in the firing range despite not physically seeing the player inside of the building so I’m not sure if that was just a bug or what because it was the first time I ever noticed it but I was also like 5 m outside of the building so I was pretty close

@Palette24caratsplease list all things AA does not just cherry-pick, see @TheApexLegendNub that adds significant and in my opinion very valuable mechanics. If you see my vids posted earlier and comments (again) then you will see how these mechanics could have or would have helped me to compensate for my mistakes and actually land more shots on target potentially even winning those hopeless fights.

Also, don't forget that MNK can do both you said but it is I would say almost impossible for a normal human, definitely not me. What I mean in theory if you google "perfect game sens" you will get guides for MNK which start at "put your mouse on the one side of your mouse pad, pull it in a linear motion to the other side, set sense so that it does 360" meaning that 180 would be done either way on half a mouse pad.

In reality, that sense (unless you have a full-size table for a mousepad) means that your sens will be on a high side which in turn will make a minor movement like 1/8 inch impossible and I mean impossible.

So for MNK there are 3 solutions:

1. play high sense and lose the ability to track

2. play low sense and lose the ability to do quick movements like 180 or actually even just looking left right up down when people get out of your FOV

3. play on low sense with mouse accel and good luck mastering that one unless you have some sort of software that limits mouse accel at a certain speed so you can flick as hard as you want but cursor motion will always be constant (what pros usually do as far as I know unless they go with option nr.2 because tracking is way more important than 180, as they say if you need to do 180 it means you read the map badly and deserve to die)

Finally real-life situation = me: I have a 120 cm wide table with a 30 cm mousepad (might have room for an extra 10 cm at most but that position is just not comfortable for me). Currently on 0.2 sense with 3900 dpi which gives me ~105 degrees from one side mouse pad to the other, and honestly you see from my aiming that in close range my sense might actually need to be even slower. To do 180 in half swipe -> my sense should go up 4-5 times. I guess you can figure out the rest about how godlike a mouse is in the hands of a simple player and compare that to the controller and what I have said before.

What I do is use mouse accel yet that works in a linear fashion meaning if you make an extra X movement actual under/overshooting in the game is multiplied by the accel = I am trying to get some speed for the cost of a lesser room for error when tracking. Thus all these clips.

@Sand_spitter 

Regarding movement - what's the point of it if that dude outmaneuvers himself as well = misses all his shots? The deal-breaker here was my reload and positioning and his teammate coming from behind, not his tapstrafe or strafe (which would have ended if I would have guessed the pattern =50/50 case).

Wingman - yes, I use 2x only rarely even though I like it, but sense just messes it up too much, this time it was just on, had no time or intention to remove it, didn't expect that dude to pop-up so fast so close.

Seeing people - I actually improved my graphics today (what a coincidence), realized that unfortunately, most popular google results on how to fine-tune the Radeon card for Apex were incorrect, and I mean first few pages of google results with various keywords. Sad but I learned the lesson, at least today it feels like so, will see in a long run.

How do people on PC know that they were killed by the controller player on PC - because you see them push like braindead and they land a half/full mag on you or 3 shot you with Wingman or Eva like nobody's business. That's what this discussion is about. In some cases, you reach out to those players e.g. via discord / get paired up in the following lobby and they confirm their input device.

@EshshshssThe point is not missing while moving = making other person miss instead while you are being accurate and evasive. I never noticed crouching while you strafe either. I can't stress firing range enough in this game and I suspect most never go into it. Also, 1v1's in firing range = God mode eventually in game given time, but no one does it and I honestly don't understand why. There's a reason guys like Imperial Hal do it all the time. Like @E9ine_AC said, practice is key. You might get away with not doing it in something like cod but never in Apex and applies to both inputs equally. You won't perform well, or better overall just by picking one or the other up and hoping for the best, neither input is gonna hold our hand here.

Another thing - bad movement also doesn't equal bad aim - can't really judge overall ability based on movement or lack thereof alone. And I see this argument many times. "He moves like a noob, but one clipped me - he must be cheating or it's aa". That is simply untrue. I'm not one for bouncing off walls and sliding all over the place either, doesn't mean I'm gonna miss. 

Ok, so at least some of the time people are guessing that they were killed by controller based on movement and close range accuracy alone? Interesting. This is new to me and makes a lot of sense as to why we see these discussions (or assumptions) about aa so often. However, this can also be incorrect, at least in some cases. And I don't think it's a far reach to think mouse players can indeed also play like that given the high skill ceiling and different play styles this game has and allows. Have a look at guys like Dizzy and Aceu - those guys are maniacs compared to most players and pretty much pushes and one clips everything they see. It's an extreme example but at least something to consider also. Then you have a guy like Dellor who moves more noobish but has good accuracy and is also ex Pred level player..

Also, cheating is definitely a thing too and may or may not always be obvious. When I started recording my matches on my previous server I was shocked to see afterwards just how many players were using strike packs with turbo crouch enabled. I didn't even realize it in real time in most cases. Point is, if people don't wanna get caught it's pretty easy not to, making aa an easy go to assumption.

@TheApexLegendNubThat "curve" you mention I always refer to as a "slight pull".

Go into firing range and look straight ahead near a dummy, now move left and right past the dummy with left stick without touching the right stick and you get that pull or curve effect up close. The thing with that is, try doing it while giving input to the right stick to try and keep cross hair centered on the dummy and you'll notice that it completely overrides that curve effect making it useless.

This is how people play in game - with input to the right stick in order to track and control recoil so in essence it doesn't really serve any meaningful purpose imo.

I honestly don't know why this effect is in the game cause imo it creates a perfect platform for misunderstanding. I always see people use this as "proof". "Look what happens when I run past my friend, his reticle / cross hair moved proving that aa does all the work and tracks for you". And I'm like, yeah, try pulling the trigger and see how many shots he lands when that happens with no input to the stick... 

@Sand_spitterfor me ideal strafing, movement is actually about both - making my opponent miss while I compensate for my movement and hit my shots WHILE moving. Otherwise given your point only viable tactic is to take a risk of the enemy missing and punishing him/her while reloading - similar to what happened with me in this clip with Caustic.

Yet if they execute their movement well, you will end up in cycles where the enemy reloads behind cover and you will be forced to dodge multiple times in a row... 1v1 may be possible but if teammates are alive they will for sure get you sooner than later.

To sum up about movement and it, in my opinion, being overrated - you can jump, slide, crouch, tap whatever you want as long as you can't hit your shots WHILE doing that as I will just stand still behind some cover and spam you as soon as you stop or make mistake in a movement, potentially disrupt it via ability, granade, TT or any other means.

I was not crouching because that episode is just not the best of my plays for sure plus I was feeling (and only rewatching demo confirmed) that Caustic is bad hitting his shots and I knew that I have the advantage just needed to land my shots which I did not. Crouching would only make things worse.

1v1 - I agree, but many people indeed don't spend and don't want to spend time in the Firing range. Also in my experience, it is somewhat annoying especially at first if the skill gap is big e.g. you and your teammate go into 1v1 and one person dominates. One that is better gets bored hitting you "easy", you get frustrated and do even worse when being knocked down time and time again. Takes some effort yet provides a lot of benefits.

Regarding bad movement being an indication of controller player - no, I am talking about basic things like people running in a straight line while enemies are around, not using cover, standing still ADSing, messing up easy jumps, etc. As I agree and play similarly - I never trained to do those parkour movements in-game yet I am able to land some good shots in the meantime. Again getting back to my opinion of movement being overrated.

Also, a tell-tell sign is how linear movement is - with controller players usually move in a straight line no matter the direction, I guess that's how controllers work, while mouse movements will have much more jitter, curves, weird patterns in them as e.g. I can't even do a parallel swipe across my mousepad even when in Paint, not to talk about Apex :D

You know dezignful? 

[CM - Edited to remove image containing profanity]

@Palette24caratsI don't and I already don't like him :D

Comments like these are just childish and totally worthless.

Saw similar Pred yesterday in one of the Discord channels - dude got aped while trying to get banners and then he went to the discord and called out the player for being "hardstuck Master" (well dude had 10044 RP but still) and commenting that his tactics = camping banner while in the zone, are dogs#$%... yet it worked and the dude was ~#90 current Pred. Just shows how godlike Preds feel yet how limited is their mental capacity after comments like these or this dezingful dude.

Updated: Actually just checked out the dude you mentioned stream from 16h ago... same thing man:

- no super brainy plays more like the exact opposite

- most fights he just "lucky" (combination of skill and AA) to hit Wingman shots

- his team Preds yet they go by the same moto "s#%# on kids, omg they are D4 hardstuck" <- all after they just not paying attention in game, talking about random stuff and then get arcstared as they would deserve

I mean I am not trying to undermine his skills, probably he is better than me and has like thousands of hours in the game, etc., yet what I don't like about these people is that they get the Pred badge and get too coocky. I said this before - in a ranked difference between D4 and 10k Master in my opinion is mostly having a set Squad and to be honest my guess would be that 10k vs Pred is quite similar but more related to actual time spent in the game meaning that 10k people might be just as talented just not have 24/7 to be in the game and play like twice as few hours as Preds thus not being able to break into Pred ranks even though e.g., in this case, ~270 something pred has 12k RP which is not a huge gap vs 10k hardstucks...