Re: Knockdowns and damage give RP in ranked

@Balladalidila

I understand your thought process completely bro trust me, but what if there's a cap to the damage that grants RP and you get a placement bonus based on the most damage done in your squad, and a smaller one for 2nd most? A knock isn't "worth nothing unless you capitalize on it". You just capitalized. It's worth nothing if your teammates don't capitalize on their end and pull their own weight. The ranking system has to be slightly inaccurate because of this. They gave people knockdown shields because they wanted make gunfights happen quickly. If you push on your own that's another story. If you take ranked seriously you should be communicating with teammates and coordinating but those randoms annoy tf out of me. For that I'd say there could be a requirement for a minimum distance of 30 to 40m or so from teammates and enemies to get damage bonuses, and that would fix range-camping too. Even though that's really not a viable strat since you barely fight at long range or if you do people push the first knockdown a vast majority of the time. Octane, Pathfinder, Loba, Horizon, Wraith, and sometimes Bangalore if your team fires at her all have really quick and/or safe pushing potential. I do also understand how did just pull your weight and I see a lack of reward for doing exactly what you're supposed to do and then some while your team can't, at sheild and health disadvantage. You had to deal with at least 1 whole other potentially healed guy. What if your tm8 gets knocked super fast and dude Stims, Jump Pads, Grapples, Ziplines, Gravity Lifts, Voidjumps, Burglar's Best Friends, Smoke Launchers or Double Times their way to you and you definitely can't shield batt, let alone cell/syringe. I'm out here capitalizing man I'm CAPS LOCK BRO AND MY TEAMMATES lowercase af lmao. It's definitely better for the pace of this game.

@kellanammann 

Seems to be that your issue is more stupid and unskilled random teammates rather than the RP system, which I totally agree on =) Thats why I very rarely put myself in that hell on earth that playing with randoms in ranked really is. Anyhow, if they started to give out RPs for just knocks and damage, they would have to adjust the system so that it overall didnt reward MORE total RP, just distributed them differently based on another system and that is probably a very hard nut to crack.

So even if I see your point (and your frustration), I stand by my previous objections;

1) This would even further make the "hold position with mid-to-long range weapons without pushing"-meta even stronger, which already is the case, starting in Platinum. 

2) In the long run, the big damage dealers will get more kills thus more RPs that the small damage dealers. 

@Balladalidila It really isn't that hard I listed above everything they would need to do to balance it out and prevent ranged damage farming. The fact of the matter is that a guy doing more damage should be rewarded more than a guy doing less. It's simple maths lol. In the long run, from my experience, teammates more often than not get the same reward for doing less, and that simply needs to change.

     I also thought I did a rather good job of clarifying that this wouldn't make the ranks inaccurate or too easy to climb, because if everyone got the same reward, everyone would increase or decrease at the same speed as everyone else if they're doing more damage. It would balance itself out, even improve rank accuracy. Maybe they could make ranks limited to a certain number of players and make it so that if you pass the guy at the bottom, they get demoted, but I don't think they would need to.

@kellanammann 

I dont agree that it would be that simple, and frankly, none of us could even try to predict how such changes would affect the overall RP distribution since we do not have any data. How can you predict the outcome of a a model with only unknown variables?

To even attempt to formulate this new ranked system, we would need to know (on average) how many knockdowns that doesnt lead to a kill/assist point, how many knockdowns that the kill point is awarded to someone else who just executed (pretty common in hot drops when teams gets eliminated before they get to finish knocked players), how much damage on average that leads to a kill, how much damage that is just traded, i.e healed up again and MANY MANY more variables like that. 

"In the long run, from my experience, teammates more often than not get the same reward for doing less"

Well that is the opposite of my experience. I played 100% of my ranked matches with only one premade IRL friend for one season. Not a single match without him. He is not as good as me and before he reached Diamond 4 from Gold 2 on his account had I ranked 2 accounts from Gold 2 to Diamond 4 and was on my way (like mid plat) on my third.. So obviously, I had a much, much quicker RP gain because I constantly performed better than him. My generally higher dmg lead to generally more kills that lead to generally higher RP gain.

@BalladalidilaI just did predict the changes, the result is more accurate rankings. There are no variables left. In the thread above, I've covered everything you just said about max damage bonus per enemy with the help of other's constructive criticism. I already said we can agree to scrap the idea of knockdowns earlier but you clearly didn't read the rest of the thread, so go back, read it, and then give your thoughts. I've concluded that just damage should be rewarded.

You were playing with a bad player so it's easy to get more kills than him. Whether you'll admit it or not, it still had to be frustrating on some level when you knocked your guy and possibly one other, and the 3rd guy or last 2 kill you at low shield and/or health, cause your teammate was a potato, and you got no RP for any of it, just lost it because there's a buy-in cost. I don't care if you GENERALLY get more RP than teammates because you GENERALLY get more kills. That's not the case for me. It's really hard to get kills when your team is garbage and both knocked right away leaving you to a 1v3. Even if you get lucky and the other team chokes allowing you to clutch it up, your teammates could have done literally 2 points of damage, and you're telling me that they deserve to get the same amount of RP for it that you did ? Ridiculous. I feel like we should, not "generally", but DEFINITELY get more RP for doing more damage than teammates. What's so unacceptable about this ?

I am still yet to hear a good argument against the implementation of RP for damage that I haven't found a way to work around. Just "oh well if you do more damage you'll PROBABLY get more RP".
BS. Probably isn't good enough.

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@Balladalidila wrote:

@kellanammann 

That suggestion would literally make the incentives 1000 times stronger for people in ranked to just grab a Charge rifle or another sniper and just trade dmg on long (safe) range and never push and actually go for the squad wipe.  Knocking an enemy gives you a significant advantage which you and your team may or may not be able capitalize on. A knock is NOTHING if you dont do something with it and its exactly the same for just dealing dmg. It means, and SHOULD mean nothing unless you can convert the dmg dealt to a kill.

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True that sir, that might give some room to people who play other weapons than f-in shotguns...

No, there should not be a 'timer'. The 'point' you tried to make is a logic fallacy. The current system is flawed and should be changed to a regulated system.