Re: Lets Talk About 'Skill-Based Matchmaking'?

Hey @JiboTV I've looked at this thread since the very start and I must tip my hat to you. You Had to repeat yourself numerous times,something I would not have the patience for 😉 ! Regardless, this thread is about SBMM. I am an Apex Predator,#10,824 on XB1,K/d 1.41(Just so you can get an idea of the range im at in Apex). To start , I've started playing apex towards the end of season 2,at the start of the Voidwalker event. I don't know if SBMM was implemented during that time,but there was a post earlier that mentioned that the had a small chance of killing a squad,that was how it was for me. The matches I would get would consist of me being matched with people who carried me or the opposite and a win would ALMOST certainly mean that the next match , I would be melted immediately. I would say that the SBMM then( If it exisisted then) was fair.I would win some,but lose the most and would be going against people of my skill range, but most seemingly better than me. And even though I would get it handed to me, Apex was still a very fun and challenging game.Enter season 3 and things get really black and white. By the time this season started I was on the up and up in terms and skill and was able to hold my own against squads by myself and would be able to take out multiple squads in one match alone. Then out of nowhere I would be put into lobbies and get absolutely smashed,along with my teammates from teams that were extremely coordinated,so much so that they would be able to wipe my teams(for ex. all of us are purple.) within 10 seconds.After like 3-6 matches of that,I would get lobbies that are "fun"(fun being that my squad isnt creamed by any other squad in the firstt 20 seconds of the game and we actually get a chance to shoot back at the other squads ).Just for me to go back to lobbies that were extremely coordninated and get melted. I went to ranked for a big bit ,got stuck in plat for a big bit in the season, and eventually got to diamond,then pred.And my expierience is that ranked is the way I bellieve that Sbmm works as intended because althought those matches were challenging yet exciting ,like the later part of season 2 for me. But, regular matches are almost unplayable for me because everyone who I play against are diamond/pred level and are in pre-made squads.I can't even play  with my friends because they are in plat range and can't handle people of my skill level,espcially if they are coordinated.And I believe a lot of people in this thread and who play this game,understand how exhausting it is if you are a solo queuing predator.I dont want to stomp on noobs,I'm just looking for matches where I can have fun and not have to tryhard every game.I agree with how you feel about SBMM,I son't want it to be turned off because of newcomers,but its current state,its not fun for the people who are skilled at the game and like you said in your first post ,we get punished for getting better at the game."Get better or die." sums it up quite well.Sorry for the longwinded post,Keep doing what your doing,because you actually got me to join the discussion via how you approached it.

Just to add my 2 cent. I logged in for the first time ever for this.

The game is being ruined for me with SBMM. I have no idea how it is calculated, but I have k/d of 1.0, avg 350 dmg per game. Fallen from 1.7 and 480 dmg. Lately it's like this:

0 kill, 0 kill, 0 kill, 1 kill, 0 kill, 0 kill, 1 kill, 0 kill. Always low damage too.

It's not fun. I much, much prefer the system where you throw everyone together, you have some good games, some bad games, but it's always engaging and unpredictable.

Now it's very predictable. I just die all the time, constantly, getting murdered by clearly better players (so not sure how the sbmm is working, I have gone from 1.7 k/d to 1.0 and in freefall)

It's not fun anymore, I'm starting to dislike the game. Two of my friends stopped playing because they say it's not fun either.

I have bought all the season passes and some coins because I wanted to support the game but I won't be any more going forward.

A game should be fun. I understand matching people together in ranked mode, but what's the point of doing the exact same thing in public matches, the whole point is to chill out and have fun, not for every game to be a sweatfest and frustrating.

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@TerrorFirmerIE wrote:

0 kill, 0 kill, 0 kill, 1 kill, 0 kill, 0 kill, 1 kill, 0 kill. Always low damage too.

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It looks exactly like my average game evening before SBMM was implemented. 👿

I really don't understand how SBBM is working, because I just started playing ranked instead and I'm currently in Platinum III and progressing, my k/d there is something like 1.5 and average of 600 dmg per game or so. 

When I play public, the game is just impossibly hard, the enemies are so much better than me, and way better than average game in Platinum. Keep in mind I'm a 'normal' player with a k/d now of 1.0 but this is the adversity I'm getting in public.

I honestly have no idea what way it's working with public but it's really baffling. I also noticed that lots of people in my lobby have trails which I believe means they are diamond or apex predator?

But like why an earth are these people constantly appearing in my lobby when I'm an average player with a k/d of 1.0??! It's not fun. I just get wrecked every single game

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@wattzon16 wrote:

Hey @JiboTV I've looked at this thread since the very start and I must tip my hat to you. You Had to repeat yourself numerous times,something I would not have the patience for 😉 ! Regardless, this thread is about SBMM. I am an Apex Predator,#10,824 on XB1,K/d 1.41(Just so you can get an idea of the range im at in Apex). To start , I've started playing apex towards the end of season 2,at the start of the Voidwalker event. I don't know if SBMM was implemented during that time,but there was a post earlier that mentioned that the had a small chance of killing a squad,that was how it was for me. The matches I would get would consist of me being matched with people who carried me or the opposite and a win would ALMOST certainly mean that the next match , I would be melted immediately. I would say that the SBMM then( If it exisisted then) was fair.I would win some,but lose the most and would be going against people of my skill range, but most seemingly better than me. And even though I would get it handed to me, Apex was still a very fun and challenging game.Enter season 3 and things get really black and white. By the time this season started I was on the up and up in terms and skill and was able to hold my own against squads by myself and would be able to take out multiple squads in one match alone. Then out of nowhere I would be put into lobbies and get absolutely smashed,along with my teammates from teams that were extremely coordinated,so much so that they would be able to wipe my teams(for ex. all of us are purple.) within 10 seconds.After like 3-6 matches of that,I would get lobbies that are "fun"(fun being that my squad isnt creamed by any other squad in the firstt 20 seconds of the game and we actually get a chance to shoot back at the other squads ).Just for me to go back to lobbies that were extremely coordninated and get melted. I went to ranked for a big bit ,got stuck in plat for a big bit in the season, and eventually got to diamond,then pred.And my expierience is that ranked is the way I bellieve that Sbmm works as intended because althought those matches were challenging yet exciting ,like the later part of season 2 for me. But, regular matches are almost unplayable for me because everyone who I play against are diamond/pred level and are in pre-made squads.I can't even play  with my friends because they are in plat range and can't handle people of my skill level,espcially if they are coordinated.And I believe a lot of people in this thread and who play this game,understand how exhausting it is if you are a solo queuing predator.I dont want to stomp on noobs,I'm just looking for matches where I can have fun and not have to tryhard every game.I agree with how you feel about SBMM,I son't want it to be turned off because of newcomers,but its current state,its not fun for the people who are skilled at the game and like you said in your first post ,we get punished for getting better at the game."Get better or die." sums it up quite well.Sorry for the longwinded post,Keep doing what your doing,because you actually got me to join the discussion via how you approached it.

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@wattzon16 Thanks for your time in writing that out - I understand where you are coming from and it does take patience to discuss these topics. Patience with the developers and the players who are and aren't experiencing these issues as much. What you say is echoing that idea I have heard that you bounce around above and below skill ceiling within unranked matches outside of what might expected in ranked. This can explain why some people are suggesting ranked might be easier at times and furthers my point that you need to get better or die. You also mention the sad fact of being unable to play with friends, I touch on this numerous times in this post and wish people could understand the impact on being unable to play with friends or newer players generally. I think it contributes to why people look at stats and badges of the kill leaders and wallow in despair for a minute when they see high stats or badges.

Sorry if I couldn't respond to all of what you wrote, but I think I got most of it! Thanks for taking your time to give feedback. 

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@TerrorFirmerIE wrote:

I really don't understand how SBBM is working, because I just started playing ranked instead and I'm currently in Platinum III and progressing, my k/d there is something like 1.5 and average of 600 dmg per game or so. 

When I play public, the game is just impossibly hard, the enemies are so much better than me, and way better than average game in Platinum. Keep in mind I'm a 'normal' player with a k/d now of 1.0 but this is the adversity I'm getting in public.

I honestly have no idea what way it's working with public but it's really baffling. I also noticed that lots of people in my lobby have trails which I believe means they are diamond or apex predator?

But like why an earth are these people constantly appearing in my lobby when I'm an average player with a k/d of 1.0??! It's not fun. I just get wrecked every single game

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      Point-blank, I cannot give you all the answers. Your feelings are exactly why I made this thread with hopes in the back of my mind of potentially receiving developer response. If you are skilled average within your skill range and are fighting the average level of player within your skill range, you will come to expect a low K/D around 1 to be normal. 

Thank you for taking the time to write out this information and offer your perspective.

@JiboTV 

I also appreciate how you’ve approached a lot of this. Out of my group of 7 friends that play I tend to do the best. BARELY made Diamond 4 (All I wanted was the trail) with a KD of 1.35 lifetime/1.8 Season 3&4. But I can’t play with my friends anymore because I’m not good enough to carry them through the hell that are the casual lobbies I’m dropped into. I cannot even begin to compete with even Diamond 1’s and 2’s consistently, let alone premade Pred Squads. Yet every game, that’s all I see, to the point where my group dreads queuing with me. 

Interestingly enough, in my one and only ranked match this season, in Gold 2, I was immediately placed in a lobby with exclusively SEASON 4 diamonds and preds. Season 4, meaning they’d already hit that rank THIS season, not last. I was befuddled. And subsequently demolished. But this led me to understand that the game has absolutely no idea how to MM certain people, casual or ranked. I literally cannot seem to get a match with anyone not above my skill level/consistency(with this being the major issue for me).

@S8N_Spawn 

I agree with you and I think everyone in this thread against SBMM would agree with you that when you are a certain skill level, you should absolutely be matched against similarly skilled players. The whole point of our argument, however, is that we have a ranked mode where this is and should exclusively be the case. Ranked did not always exist, so initially SBMM made overall more sense since there were only public lobbies. Now, however, there is a MM option for ranked games with rewards where the competition is comparable and a MM option for casual games with no rewards. The frustration many people find is the lack of parody. Why include a ranked option at all if all of the games played are the same anyways? A BR game is designed to be random and RNG based. If you have a dedicated mode for aggressive, sweaty play, then keep the general mode actually randomized. 

An as for that ranked game, I agree it’s early, but my point was not that I was already playing with Diamonds and Preds, which I expected, but I was playing with Season 4 diamonds and Preds, meaning they’d already hit those ranks this season, but last. That’s what confused me. I knew I’d be playing with diamonds at least this early on, but I expected those diamonds to still have gold/plat ranks for season 4 since I’m still only Gold. 

I hope this makes sense. I can appreciate your point of view and I think you make some valid points, but it’s the overall setup that has a lot of people frustrated. 

@CheeseyPos_3wtwThe problem is that the “Ranked” mode is not a true SBMM ELO. You can straight up camp from zero tier to Platinum IV without hardly firing a shot. It is far from skill based.

There is zero question that SBMM needs to be in the core mode. The issue is, is it really even there? I’m seeing, like a lot of others are, a huge disparity in skill of the players in any given match. An example: the highest level of my two random squad mates will be, say, 36. The Champion squad will have a guy with over 12k kills, another with half that much, and the third with well over 1000. How are these people on the same field together? It doesn’t appear the SBMM is implemented at the moment.

Come on EA fix the damn problem man it can't be that hard to fix!! im lvl 30x and play with players lvl way under 100