REMOVE MASTIFF ! OMG !

102 damages with 2 shots in less 1 sec ? 

Still nothing for the MASTIFF there ? 

With 2 R99 close range not time to spread and i'm dead ? ahah ? 

@Ff3NiXx Mastiff can't shoot that fast and 2 blasts by a shotgun for 100 total damage is kind of weak. The PK did more damage than that with a single pull

The Mastiff is overpowered but mainly because of its unstable damage output and the fact that it recently came out of the care package drop loot pool so it still needs some changes and yes  I can agree that the mastiff is broken due to the 467 damage i dealt to a player (yes this really happend and it was a head shot) but eh mastiff is cool so I would love to keep it in the game. 

AND AGAIN ! 102 in less than 1 sec at 15 meters ! Could you FIX this WEAPON ! 

Recorded a death summary of the 10 last games:

Game 1: Mastiff

Game 2: Mastiff

Game 3: Spitfire

Game 4: Mastiff 

Game 5: Volt

Game 6: Spitfire

Game 7: Mastiff

Game 8: Mastiff

Game 9: R301

Game 10: Mastiff

Conclusion: No need to learn how to aim, just run triple mastiff and get up close. Easy dub every time 🙂

Game 11: Mastiff

Game 12: Mastiff

Im calling quits for season 7 now until they get that cancer out of floor loot. 

do you even consider adjusting your play?

if you think mastiff is very good and die to it constantly, MAYBE dont get too close?

the weapon is literally designed to burst you down at close range.

if you cant deal with it: dont let them come close.

soften them up with sniper rifles but do not play R99 + Flatline or something along those lines.

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@Triumphkutter wrote:

do you even consider adjusting your play?

if you think mastiff is very good and die to it constantly, MAYBE dont get too close?

the weapon is literally designed to burst you down at close range.

if you cant deal with it: dont let them come close.

soften them up with sniper rifles but do not play R99 + Flatline or something along those lines.

---

Didn`t you read like the 10 previous post mentioning exactly this ? Its annoying to read the same thing over and over again.

Your point doesn`t make sense at all.

Mastiff is broken. Its the weapon that allows you to kill way highly skilled player than you, even tho you are terrible and don`t move at all, you can still kill him, even tho he is done everything he needs to do.

And to not repeat the same stuff again i will just quote myself:

"I will add that, you can`t tell right at the moment, what weapons your opponent haves. So how can i decide where to take the fight, if i don`t know what weapons he have. The time he swap weapons, you can`t do a ...... 

And Mastiff range is ridiculous."

-------------------------

And lastly on that topic. Yesterday or like 2 days ago, there was 1vs1 Pro/Streamers tournament. Guess what the weapons was, Wingman + Mastiff. Funny part is people that was obviously worst, are trying to spam with the mastiff, and jiggle peeking and hiding. It was so obvious, and at the chat we were talking exactly at this. That the guy is just worst and trying to compensate by using a broken gun. This was everyone opinion, but it was so obvious. I mean some of the guys were straight up shooting with the Mastiff as a first, not even using the Wingman. This tells you the whole story.

@LordloshBang The video you showed does imply that it can be used at range but the player in the video failed each time. Most of his mid range shots hit for 13, 14 or 28 damage wish is unimpressive. The fact that he attempted to use it at that range does imply that it can be done but its inconsistent at best.

This is obvious but you don't have to anticipate what weapon your opponent is using. Stick to the strengths of your weapons and you wont have an issue unless your opponent has a stronger weapon at your chosen range. Combat is more fluid then this so it's an annoying topic to discuss.

Lastly, yeah a lower skilled player used a Mastiff over a Wingman. They'd likely use an alternator over one too since the Wingman is a high skill gun. That says less about how OP the Mastiff may or not be and more about how difficult the Wingman is to use.

---

@Zamaha400 wrote:

@LordloshBang The video you showed does imply that it can be used at range but the player in the video failed each time. Most of his mid range shots hit for 13, 14 or 28 damage wish is unimpressive. The fact that he attempted to use it at that range does imply that it can be done but its inconsistent at best.

This is obvious but you don't have to anticipate what weapon your opponent is using. Stick to the strengths of your weapons and you wont have an issue unless your opponent has a stronger weapon at your chosen range. Combat is more fluid then this so it's an annoying topic to discuss.

Lastly, yeah a lower skilled player used a Mastiff over a Wingman. They'd likely use an alternator over one too since the Wingman is a high skill gun. That says less about how OP the Mastiff may or not be and more about how difficult the Wingman is to use.

---

I think it was quite obvious Hal was trolling on that video and he was spamming with the Mastiff, without even trying.

I have previously showed a video of Hal and many mores with a very big range, and how Mastiff is shooting for 52 damage.

Here is the image i root especially for you:

https://imgur.com/XB83hb5

In this situation Hal hit 52 damage in a ridiculous range.

Everyone who are not biased and play this game enough, know Mastiff can take you down in a range, that it shouldn`t do even hit you.

And here where it comes the problem. That no skill players, that are hard to aim with a gun, and their recoil kicks and they can`t kill you, while you are running, they just spam with the Mastiff and you are killed in a big distance with a shotgun, while running away. Here where it comes the problem, as you see in the Hal video, he was just spamming with, without even trying. And this happen, because of the big spread of the mastiff. You got like 5cm crosshair, and even my great-grandmother(let her rest in peace) will be able to take them down.

I`m playing Bangalore. I`m a master in escaping tight situation. And 99% of the time when i`m low HP and they are aiming with a R99, Flatline or R301, they can`t kill me, cause i know how to move and make them miss in a distance. In 99% in the same situation, doing the same thing i die to a Mastiff, cause of its wide spread range.

Weaving left-right, doing all the possible stuff, ain`t helping.

As far as the suggestion to stick at distance, this is not how the game works. This ain`t Warzone. Shotgun weapons should be exclusively strong in super close range. They should not be effective at all lets say in a SMG range, and be zero effective in AR range.

Eva8 is like that, its effective exclusively in short range(still way way weaker than Mastiff), and do exactly zero at any different range than close one.

Mastiff needs to be the same. 

And lastly did you even read? It was a pro 1vs1 tournament.

Mastiff is broken, since it was introduced to ground loot. Every pro and decent player knows its super OP. Everyone admits it, just a low tier player don`t want, cause its their tool to play this game semi-effectively.

@Xx__Miku831__xX Too tired to read the previous page at the moment. Obviously you can't turn and run away from a Mastiff user mid fight since he can just switch to his secondary weapon and pursue you. It's disrespectful to imply that's possible like it's disrespectful to suggest the Mastiff is a mid-range threat.

It does/did more damage than it should at that range but so does nearly every other weapon so it seemed dishonest and insulting to focus on that. R-99, Volt, Wingman being the primary weapons that ignore their theoretical range which some members of the community accepts because it takes some degree of skill. Not much skill for 2 of those guns to be honest.

I've maintained that shotguns should dominate at close range but I'm open to the idea that the Mastiff does a little to well here. Instead of focusing on that we've derailed into a sniper Mastiff debate which is honestly laughable to me.

As @MartimRosat mentions above the problem can be solved by tweaking or removing the shotgun bolt. Weakening it at all ranges while maintaining high damage close range shots.

Eva8 does way lower damage in QC and it does zero damage at the range Mastiff hits you for 50+ damage.

That speaks for itself.

The easiest thing for them to do is to put it in the care package, that gun is comparable with the kraber and while the kraber is OP, it doesnt ruin gameplay and thats because there can only be one or two on the map at a time. I could see people being worried about the PK being on the ground again but i feel like that weapon would cause less issues than the mastiff simply off the fact that it needs to be upgraded. Its like the R-99 and the prowler, they're not OP but they're in the care package sometimes (which is kind of lame imo). The only thing that makes those guns so great when in the care package is that they're fully upgraded and you dont need to hold ammo for them. 

Just sad... third party is already annoying, but with mastiff... they rush in and there is just no way out.

Just cause ~ 100 damage with one hit ... clearly belongs in the Care Package, as quickly as possible, together with Aim Assist, the game just get boring because everyone simply takes advantage of this!

@Tom0ve 
Aim assist needs to be removed, if not all together then at least from PC servers (no matter what platform you're on, in PC servers you shouldnt have it) 

@Oyasumlpunpun Whoa man you've missed some changes. The Peacekeeper and Triple Take now come with the choke built in so the PK only needs a bolt like the Mastiff. The Devotion no longer needs a turbo charger to be effective but it helps. The Havoc still needs one so that's unchanged.

The Mastiff only has two notable advantages over the PK. The ability to fire after reloading one shell and a faster firing rate once it has a purple bolt.

The PK has superior range. Higher damage shots at range. Easier to use since its equally as accurate hip fired as it was ADS unless M/KB has some kind of difficulty with hipfiring that I'm unaware of?

Aim Assist is an odd thing to bring into the conversation though. Really just seems like you're derailing the topic while calling for anti Aim Assist players to support you.

@Zamaha400 

The triple take coming with the choke doesnt make it op in the slightest, it just makes it useable. The PKs range only comes with it being charged so it takes actual time and skill to use outside of a mastiff which holds strong range without needing to be charged. 

The fact that you dont know what things are like on M&KB means you're a controller user so it makes sense on why you've been so defensive this whole thread, you obviously dont know how the game works because your aim assist plays the game for you. Probably why you're getting so defensive over the topic being brought up in the first place. I was replying to someone else commenting on aim assist btw but i forgot to tag them so no, its not an odd thing to bring up. Especially when it comes to people talking about automatic guns being op or how you should deal with a mastiff. A player with aim assist can deal with a mastiff easier because they literally dont have to aim to get shots in where as a M&KB player has to properly aim and hit all shots accurately to be able to have a fighting chance against a mastiff (and even then you still get over whelmed by the DPS that gun can pull). So calling aim assist into question while you have people who use controller defending the mastiff is a big thing and should probably be discussed heavily. 

@Oyasumlpunpun Didn't say the Triple Take was OP just mentioning what happened to the precision choke and why the PK needs the same # of attachments as the Mastiff. The Triple Take is irrelevant just felt weird not mentioning the other gun precision chokes are attached to.

I'm going off of memory but I believe the PK hit 70+ damage shots at range even without being choked. 110 when choked I believe but again this is going off of memory from seasons ago.

Aim assist derails this topic. Has nothing to do with my stance on it or the Mastiff. If it's as strong as people imply it is then most controller players would prefer the Volt/R-99 anyway since those guns beat anything if you don't miss. 

I'm not that good of a player but I'm prideful. I won't use anything that gives me an unfair advantage. If Aim Assist gives me an unfair advantage I'd demand to be separated from PC players and deny the idea of including it in tournaments. Im already not a fan of combining PC and Console.

Most People that mention Aim Assist being a problem ignore the advantages of M/KB so its hard to take them seriously. I'll own up to any flaw on my side of the argument but most others won't but....

I didn't want to discuss it because it brings us WAY off topic.

@Zamaha400 
It is on topic simply for the fact that the people who argue to "just stay away" from the mastiff are probably the same people (like yourself) who use aim assist. Aim assist is an unfair advantage, theres a reason why its used by a major number of tounry level players over M&KB, its so they can ABUSE the aim assist. There are high level Japanese players that do insane things with aim assist that they can not without it. How does this connect itself to the mastiff conversation? Simple, people who use it have an easier time killing and dealing with people who use the mastiff. Making their arguments less as strong when they argue for the mastiff "not being so powerful" or "not being in any games". If people arent seeing mastiffs, maybe they're on console where the mastiff is out matched by literal in game aimbot? Are you seeing my point? Also btw, i have a friend who is stuck on console atm, i 1v1 him a lot. His aim assist does magical things with the shotguns that a M&KB takes a lot more effort to pull off. Everything aiming wise is increased with the aim assist so speaking about it while talking about how broken the mastiff is, is very relevant.

@Xx__Miku831__xX True. I can't imagine a Mastiff without its high damage potential at close range but nobody likes losing a fight they never stood a chance in. Reducing its rate of fire would badly hurt it's raged fighting potential and punish Mastiff users more for missing shots but it's not enough to keep the community happy.

The only thing I can think of is trying the same thing they tried with the Sentinel. Give the Mastiff insane damage against armored opponents (110 or 130 max I don't care) but 70-80 max damage against flesh? Personally hate this idea but it weakens the weapons potential on the drop. Reducing the ammo capacity to 3 or 4 shots might also make it more punishing when it misses while the fact that it can fire after reloading one shell will keep it viable.

@Oyasumlpunpun Yeah... Massively off topic. There are two videos of Aim Assist in Apex that are passed around. One where the gun sticks to a target like glue even when the player doesn't do anything. Another where the gun SLIGHTLY slows down when the player physically drags it across a target. The community can't even agree which video is accurate or which system gains greater benefit from Aim Assist.

If you're talking about the glue-like Aim Assist then its incredibly OP and should be removed. Everything else above just seems like you're attacking players based on the wild assumptions you're making. Mainly me just because I disagree with you. I think I disagree with you? I'm not even sure what your point originally was since we're so off topic.

 @Xx__Miku831__xX Typed out a long reply that didn't go through for some reason. People dislike losing to anything with no chance of fighting back but it's hard to keep a high damage weapon in the game without creating that situation. The few Ideas I have aren't well thought out enough to bother posting them again.

I hoped that removing the bolt from the equation (like @MartimRosat  mentioned earlier) would be a significant nerf to its ranged potential and a decent loss to its up close dominance. You're probably right about that not being enough though.

@Oyasumlpunpun You're straight up arguing about Aim Assist to invalidate my argument. I'm not even sure what you think is problematic about the Mastiff since you give little focus towards the topic. 

Can't believe I'm typing this a second time. There are two different versions of Aim Assist being passed around on video. #1 where the gun tracks players on their own. #2 Where the gun slows down slightly when dragged across a target. Most people would agree that #1 is unbalanced but the typical console players experience is #2.

I don't believe M/KB players should be mixed with controller players at all. Both sides feel they'll be at an unfair disadvantage but that has nothing to do with the Mastiff.