REMOVE MASTIFF ! OMG !

@Oyasumlpunpun Didn't say the Triple Take was OP just mentioning what happened to the precision choke and why the PK needs the same # of attachments as the Mastiff. The Triple Take is irrelevant just felt weird not mentioning the other gun precision chokes are attached to.

I'm going off of memory but I believe the PK hit 70+ damage shots at range even without being choked. 110 when choked I believe but again this is going off of memory from seasons ago.

Aim assist derails this topic. Has nothing to do with my stance on it or the Mastiff. If it's as strong as people imply it is then most controller players would prefer the Volt/R-99 anyway since those guns beat anything if you don't miss. 

I'm not that good of a player but I'm prideful. I won't use anything that gives me an unfair advantage. If Aim Assist gives me an unfair advantage I'd demand to be separated from PC players and deny the idea of including it in tournaments. Im already not a fan of combining PC and Console.

Most People that mention Aim Assist being a problem ignore the advantages of M/KB so its hard to take them seriously. I'll own up to any flaw on my side of the argument but most others won't but....

I didn't want to discuss it because it brings us WAY off topic.

@Zamaha400 
It is on topic simply for the fact that the people who argue to "just stay away" from the mastiff are probably the same people (like yourself) who use aim assist. Aim assist is an unfair advantage, theres a reason why its used by a major number of tounry level players over M&KB, its so they can ABUSE the aim assist. There are high level Japanese players that do insane things with aim assist that they can not without it. How does this connect itself to the mastiff conversation? Simple, people who use it have an easier time killing and dealing with people who use the mastiff. Making their arguments less as strong when they argue for the mastiff "not being so powerful" or "not being in any games". If people arent seeing mastiffs, maybe they're on console where the mastiff is out matched by literal in game aimbot? Are you seeing my point? Also btw, i have a friend who is stuck on console atm, i 1v1 him a lot. His aim assist does magical things with the shotguns that a M&KB takes a lot more effort to pull off. Everything aiming wise is increased with the aim assist so speaking about it while talking about how broken the mastiff is, is very relevant.

@Zamaha400
Aim Assist is 100% also a Topic for a OP Gun.
If you have help with Aim, you have a higher Hit rate.

For sure Console have this function:
"#1 where the gun tracks players on their own"
I tested it with PS4, i just press L2 and my gun sight jump fast closer to the enemy.

Just like I tell before here:
https://answers.ea.com/t5/General-Feedback/Please-Let-Us-Disable-Cross-Play/m-p/9948225#M70335

I don't care if Controller Player fight on there own with Aim Assist... pure Controller Aim is just never that good like Mouse, but why put that now together?

Aim Assist is also a bot... and even the best Mouse Player on this World, will never win against a Bot, at least in most situations.
A Bot just dont care about flashing lights, loud sounds & bad view.

@Oyasumlpunpun
That's what I'm fighting for since Season 3 ... I felt Aim Assist since then, even with mouse. PC need a own Lobby with no Assist's, i already Think about a HC Mode... 😁

Again listen to the grandmaster itself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGfJVZDa2fI

He is talking about R99 and why is dog...... by his view and by the Mastiff.

They even name it Mastiff Legends long ago, because its super OP.

No more talk is needed on the topic.
Mastiff is OP/Broken from the beginning.

I kind a agree with you about this!

@Tom0ve The issue with your argument is that there are players that mostly play on PS4 and have never seen what you're talking about. I just tested it out on firing range with my little cousin and my gun didn't automatically snap onto him. You're even using a modded PS4 or you're straight up lying.

Maybe I didn't start the ADS close enough for my super Aim Bot to work? Maybe it needs special sights? Maybe you have a different definition of snapping onto a target than I do? I dunno but my many games of experience tells me this is a lie.

@Tom0ve @Oyasumlpunpun @ We've all seen the two types of videos showing Aim Assist at work in Apex. Video #1 Aim Assist glues the gun to a target with no effort from the player. Video #2 Aim Assist does nothing until the player moves it across a target and only slightly slows down their ai

Video #1 is basically a cheat while video #2 is kind of meh. If you don't want either type mixing with M/KB then I'm with you. Console players don't seem to want to deal with the laser like Aim PC can have at range. I don't even want to mix with PC controller players if their Aim Assist is that strong.

However don't tell me the PS4 can do things that the Majority have never seen without mods.

@Tom0ve 
I would like console players to be allowed in PC lobbies but i would want them to not have auto aim at all, if they want into our servers, they should have to put past their literal cheats to do so.
People think its super hard to aim with a controller but it really isnt, its just a bullfaced lie that bad players tell themselves while using a cheat to play the game for them. 

Honestly i wouldnt argue with @Zamaha400 anymore simply for the fact that he's lying and making things up to try and win his case, he did so when he claimed he "didnt see any mastiffs in his lobby" and he's doing so now with the aim assist. I cant express how much more how the mastiff and aim assist are connected but he'll toss it to the side like every argument he doesnt like. 

The aim assist slows down your aim and tracks players, using a mastiff while jumping around in someones face like that gives the advantage to the person literally cheating with in game aimbot. 

Just look at that clip i made from today Shiv stream. He wiped so many squads where they were shooting with guns.

He pushes this guy, and in just 2 shots game over. Thats it end of the story.

And the most pathetic thing is, it doesnt require any skill to do so.

ShivFPS is probably 50 millions level above him.

https://clips.twitch.tv/NiceBlazingSaladWOOP

And ofc everyone on the chat was hating Mastiff after that. I mean to do 15 kills(something he does every third-forth game) and to get tapped for 181 with 2 Mastiff shot is a joke.

You pretty much got no alternative. Let it do that damage, but lower the range/radius/spread of this thing. You pretty much are prone to taking this shots, you just can`t dodge them.

ShivFPS just doesn`t do anything wrong. He was changing direction very fast, he jump to one side and still get clipped and then right before the guy shot, he changed again(as you should do), and get another clip and dies.

This clip pretty much destroys the argument of people saying you can one tap faster someone with R99, Volt or whatever. You first got to have super GOD aim in most cases to do that, and still he can kill you before that, even if he has trash aim and is 100 level below you in terms of skill. This is definition of broken.

This also destroys the argument of people saying to fight at range against Mastiff. I mean good luck, you don`t know what is his secondary, as well as there is no way to do this all the time + you can`t escape Mastiff if you see he got one. Try to run and will die. Maybe not in 2, but in 3 shots.

Yesterday have probably like 5 games where i died to Mastiff in a situation where i down or 1 or 2 of his teammates and i`m on like half hp, the guys barely touches me with their primary bullet weapons, and i clip them for around 150-180, and the moment i switch to my secondary to finish, he swap and 1 tap me with the Mastiff. This is probably the thing that happen so often in my games, as i use AR and SMG as secondary. You just can`t out do this. He will always swap faster and tap you with the mastiff first, unless you have Mastiff and then its lottery.

@BrainDeadWraiths 
At least you live up to your name, you're literally braindead.

@LordloshBang I like the suggestion. Limiting the gun to close range only and tightening the spread makes it slightly more skill based and more reliable when you hit your target. I don't know how everyone else would feel about those changes but I see no issue.

@Oyasumlpunpun I've changed none of your arguments but disagreed with most. Aim Assist is a hotly contested topic here so we'd have to settle that before moving on to the Mastiff. Is AA the same across all systems? How strong is it? How does it compare to any perceived advantage that M/KB has and does the controller have any other unique functions that would shift balance? Is it more effective with the Mastiff or any other gun?

I dont want to discuss so many small details especially when that last point may invalidate everything. 

I've lied about nothing, been wrong about a few things, and challenged questionable (not necessarily wrong) statements. The only situation that would make AA relevant here is if it was strongest at close range and made you stick to a target like glue. That isn't the experience on PS4 so I'd contest that but not if you're discussing PC controller AA.

@Zamaha400 
Once again you completely miss the point and only latch onto things you want to hear. I've stated why AA is important to this argument and the fact that you use it means that you dont want to admit that its an actual issue or that it undermines your weak arguments. You were literally the guy that said you "never saw the gun (the mastiff) in any games" and then you're in here trying to talk about the gun as is you have any idea what anyone else is talking about. Dont you think its because you're a console player and that you console players rely on a crutch to aim in the first place? Why would people want to use a mastiff when they can aimbot with an R-99? Even a little bit of tracking support makes guns a lot stronger simply because the game is correcting your aim where you're lacking. Its not you aiming. Then im sure you'd have people (like there was) crying about how the R-99 is OP and how its not fair, but this simply isnt true, its the AA that makes the gun strong for those console players dealing with the fact that everyone has AA. Is that the guns fault? no. Its the AA.

This topic is extremely important when talking about balancing with guns simply because the way you perceive a gun can be completely different to how the gun actually works because you had added on functions that make it stronger or weaker. This makes or breaks arguments and is why i find your arguments and biases to be completely pointless. You dont experience a meta that the PC community does, We deal with mastiff central, we deal with controllers blowing PRED LEVEL PLAYERS out of the water because of how broken the aim with the AA is. But you dont want to listen to this. Watch, you'll throw out everything i just stated right now and nitpick the things that you like and ignore the rest, its all you've been doing. 

This whole thread all you've been doing is nitpicking what people say and then acting like everything else wasnt said, you've done this to multiple people even when they provide you with proof. @LordloshBang has done it multiple times and all you do is ignore his efforts. You expect anyone to take you seriously after acting like that? Good luck, The mastiff is busted and you know it, we all know it. Just like how AA is a broken feature that bad players need as a crutch to even be able to shoot. You talk about advantages that M&KB has but we dont have literal aimbot, let the controller user develop their own damn skill to be able to shoot someone, its not impossible, aiming for yourself isnt scary, old games had you do it all the time. Its just whiney bad kids that keep AA in the game.

---

@Zamaha400 wrote:

@LordloshBang I like the suggestion. Limiting the gun to close range only and tightening the spread makes it slightly more skill based and more reliable when you hit your target. I don't know how everyone else would feel about those changes but I see no issue.

@Oyasumlpunpun I've changed none of your arguments but disagreed with most. Aim Assist is a hotly contested topic here so we'd have to settle that before moving on to the Mastiff. Is AA the same across all systems? How strong is it? How does it compare to any perceived advantage that M/KB has and does the controller have any other unique functions that would shift balance? Is it more effective with the Mastiff or any other gun?

I dont want to discuss so many small details especially when that last point may invalidate everything. 

I've lied about nothing, been wrong about a few things, and challenged questionable (not necessarily wrong) statements. The only situation that would make AA relevant here is if it was strongest at close range and made you stick to a target like glue. That isn't the experience on PS4 so I'd contest that but not if you're discussing PC controller AA.

---

Its good that tho you have different view, you see the points people are making. This speaks highly of you. Its good to know there is such people on here.

I didn`t read the whole aim assist discussion you two have, but i got to say this: while aim assist is really a powerful tool in the right hands, aka in the Pros, its not the same for lower to mid skilled players. If they lower the aim assist, this guys will be totally screwed, and won`t be fair.

Also there is a lot of people using Strike Pads and Cronusmax, which pretty much remove recoil and with some commands(i never ever play on controller, but its what i read and saw in youtube videos) add stronger aim assist.

So its hard to judge who is playing 100% fairly on controller, and people judge based on aim assist, while this guys maybe straight up cheating.

Also this things are super hard to detect. Warzone is full with such players. As far as i understand Cronus can also be used wireless, so you can even stream and show your controller and people won`t understand that you are hacking.

---

@BrainDeadWraiths wrote:
@LordloshBangI hope they nerf the Mastif so you stop whining all the time.
Then maybe there will be another weapon that can be cryed about for a nerf.
* got outplayed, end of.

---

Did you even watch the video ? Lets said i got outplayed by Mastiff, but did ShivFPS, guy with 150k kills, get outplayed by it? How exactly this is outplayed, being 2 taped, by a weapon with huge spread, that you pretty much can`t do a ...., and just take the shots?

As far as the nerf part goes on. Yeah i will do, if there is another OP weapons, that is obviously not balanced, neither require skill to be used.

Btw Diegosauer while ago was crying big time for the PK, and how unbalance it was. His word was like, 99% of the time i`m dying to lower skilled player by a PK. Its the weapon i died the most.

And PK at some point was beyond broken, as well as the Wingman in the start. Tho i got to say PK was always super strong. And Respawn obviously doesn`t have an idea how to balance it.

Its the same with the Mastiff.

So by your logic we should have accepted Wingman and PK when they were super broken, as it is, and not cried back then too, right ?

Thats your point. Don`t point the obvious.

@LordloshBang 
I have a friend who plays on console that has done a lot of testing with me about the aim assist, its strong. Its overpowered and strong at that. The second he turns it off its like he's playing a whole new game, He plays on a high sensitivity and because he has the aim assist he doesnt need to try to slow down or control his aim with it because the game does it for him. The aim assist is extremely easy to abuse. Also the "lower to mid tier" players can easily get better at the game without it, its not needed in order to play on a controller, people just try to push that its needed because they dont want to aim for themselves or they're too scared of actually learning how to aim. I bet you anything if AA was removed today, people would learn how to aim and shoot really quickly just like how they do on KB&M. Old online games had no AA, new ones dont need them either, they're there for lazy people who dont want to actually play the game. I actually feel like players who rely on AA would actually get better without it simply because they actually have to focus on aiming and playing rather than letting an AI do the work. 

@Oyasumlpunpunnow not only do you want to nerf the shotgum you want to nerf the aim assist.

lol

https://youtu.be/hshz2LhxuPY

all i use is the shotgun mastiff, eva 8, mozambique, and you lot want to nerf it so you want to nerf me too! i bloody well hope not! i can be rock and roll and make the game fun, for me at least, please dont conspire t nerf me!

https://youtu.be/1M4ADcMn3dA

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@gg123xyz wrote:

@Oyasumlpunpunnow not only do you want to nerf the shotgum you want to nerf the aim assist.

lol

https://youtu.be/hshz2LhxuPY

all i use is the shotgun mastiff, eva 8, mozambique, and you lot want to nerf it so you want to nerf me too! i bloody well hope not! i can be rock and roll and make the game fun, for me at least, please dont conspire t nerf me!

https://youtu.be/1M4ADcMn3dA

---

You still need to understand how to use them. I watch one of yours clip, and your shooting with the Mastiff without ADS-ng. :D

Start in and out ADS with the Mastiff and you will understand why its OP. :D

Oyasumlpunpun, as i said i don`t know the whole discussion you two was for the aim assist i also don`t know how strong it is by myself, cause i never ever played Apex on controller.

I can judge from what i can see from pro players and there its pretty strong yeah, but its not the case on the lower levels.

I`m mouse and keyboard player, and having a good aim, doesn`t happen overnight. You need a lot of efforts, and that means years of play with the right practice in mind.

I for example spend so many hours daily on Kovaak and Apex Aim trainer and have to say the people that claim they got GOD aim in a month or so, are perfectly deluded. 

I`m saying all of this, because any game can`t be without its casuals. Some people just wanna play for fun.

If they remove the Aim assist, that will mean a lot of controller players will just leave. I can only guess, but judging how its on MnK i guess that becoming a top aimer/player on controller is not an easy task too.

Its not only Apex that have Aim Assist tho.

I`m just stating facts and the reason why they won`t remove it or lower it.

If you ask me i got no problem with the aim assist, but it should be equal to all, and right now its not equal to all, because of the cross play, and that thing should be an optional choice. If i wanna play cross platform i tick the box, if i don`t i unchecked. They should give us the option, and then i wouldn`t care if aim assist is strong or not, cause it will be the same for all.

From ShivFPS stream today, even he was amazed how he hit 70 from that distance with the Mastiff.

https://clips.twitch.tv/JollySteamyCourgetteDatSheffy

That should not be possible period.

@LordloshBang 
As i said before, i want it out of PC lobbies. If a console/controller player wants to play in PC lobbies then there shouldnt be aim assist allowed.

Also, i have the perfect video of aim assist AND the mastiff being OP (at range too for all you delusional "i never see the mastiff" idiots) 
https://youtu.be/X6twNFqEclA
This is the perfect video to show off how broken both this gun and aim assist is, If you have a keen eye for aim assist you can tell whats tracking and whats his aim, a lot of the sniper shots are corrected by the aim assist, do you know how broken that is alone? Anyways, this video is good enough proof, i really dont need to say more. Anyone who has anything to say is either lying to themselves or trying to abuse a broken gun and a broken mechanic. 

Ah this guy is toxic, Mastiff + Triple Take. But the guy was rock solid, no doubt about it.

BTW i know that PK is a CP weapon, but should it hit for 110 on that insane distance?

https://clips.twitch.tv/AntsyNiceVampireDatBoi

This is AR and SMG range. No shootgun should hit for that much damage, it doesn`t matter if its regular or CP one.

And if someone think its a other weapon, its not its PK, ShivFPS later killed this guy and loot him, he got R99 and PK.

@LordloshBang 
Im not sure if its a glitch or what but the PK can hit insane numbers without it being charged sometimes and im pretty sure it shouldnt. 

@LordloshBang 
But when charged it can normally hit stupidly high numbers, almost like a sniper. 

The so call charged its the choke, which pretty much lower the spread, and thats the main reason you can hit high damage shot in a distance. Cause if you do it without the choke, the spread is bigger and a lot of shots will not land. But for a close range it doest matter, cause you will be close enough to land the whole spread.

The damage landed on ShivFPS was like 110 from a very big distance, and that just show you how broken shotguns are(Eva8 is perfectly fine).

https://youtu.be/aXUrv6NeM8g

Imagine fighting someone like this and then hearing someone tell you "just stay away from people using the mastiff, its your lack of skill"