REMOVE MASTIFF ! OMG !

@BrainDeadWraiths 
At least you live up to your name, you're literally braindead.

@LordloshBang I like the suggestion. Limiting the gun to close range only and tightening the spread makes it slightly more skill based and more reliable when you hit your target. I don't know how everyone else would feel about those changes but I see no issue.

@Oyasumlpunpun I've changed none of your arguments but disagreed with most. Aim Assist is a hotly contested topic here so we'd have to settle that before moving on to the Mastiff. Is AA the same across all systems? How strong is it? How does it compare to any perceived advantage that M/KB has and does the controller have any other unique functions that would shift balance? Is it more effective with the Mastiff or any other gun?

I dont want to discuss so many small details especially when that last point may invalidate everything. 

I've lied about nothing, been wrong about a few things, and challenged questionable (not necessarily wrong) statements. The only situation that would make AA relevant here is if it was strongest at close range and made you stick to a target like glue. That isn't the experience on PS4 so I'd contest that but not if you're discussing PC controller AA.

@Zamaha400 
Once again you completely miss the point and only latch onto things you want to hear. I've stated why AA is important to this argument and the fact that you use it means that you dont want to admit that its an actual issue or that it undermines your weak arguments. You were literally the guy that said you "never saw the gun (the mastiff) in any games" and then you're in here trying to talk about the gun as is you have any idea what anyone else is talking about. Dont you think its because you're a console player and that you console players rely on a crutch to aim in the first place? Why would people want to use a mastiff when they can aimbot with an R-99? Even a little bit of tracking support makes guns a lot stronger simply because the game is correcting your aim where you're lacking. Its not you aiming. Then im sure you'd have people (like there was) crying about how the R-99 is OP and how its not fair, but this simply isnt true, its the AA that makes the gun strong for those console players dealing with the fact that everyone has AA. Is that the guns fault? no. Its the AA.

This topic is extremely important when talking about balancing with guns simply because the way you perceive a gun can be completely different to how the gun actually works because you had added on functions that make it stronger or weaker. This makes or breaks arguments and is why i find your arguments and biases to be completely pointless. You dont experience a meta that the PC community does, We deal with mastiff central, we deal with controllers blowing PRED LEVEL PLAYERS out of the water because of how broken the aim with the AA is. But you dont want to listen to this. Watch, you'll throw out everything i just stated right now and nitpick the things that you like and ignore the rest, its all you've been doing. 

This whole thread all you've been doing is nitpicking what people say and then acting like everything else wasnt said, you've done this to multiple people even when they provide you with proof. @LordloshBang has done it multiple times and all you do is ignore his efforts. You expect anyone to take you seriously after acting like that? Good luck, The mastiff is busted and you know it, we all know it. Just like how AA is a broken feature that bad players need as a crutch to even be able to shoot. You talk about advantages that M&KB has but we dont have literal aimbot, let the controller user develop their own damn skill to be able to shoot someone, its not impossible, aiming for yourself isnt scary, old games had you do it all the time. Its just whiney bad kids that keep AA in the game.

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@Zamaha400 wrote:

@LordloshBang I like the suggestion. Limiting the gun to close range only and tightening the spread makes it slightly more skill based and more reliable when you hit your target. I don't know how everyone else would feel about those changes but I see no issue.

@Oyasumlpunpun I've changed none of your arguments but disagreed with most. Aim Assist is a hotly contested topic here so we'd have to settle that before moving on to the Mastiff. Is AA the same across all systems? How strong is it? How does it compare to any perceived advantage that M/KB has and does the controller have any other unique functions that would shift balance? Is it more effective with the Mastiff or any other gun?

I dont want to discuss so many small details especially when that last point may invalidate everything. 

I've lied about nothing, been wrong about a few things, and challenged questionable (not necessarily wrong) statements. The only situation that would make AA relevant here is if it was strongest at close range and made you stick to a target like glue. That isn't the experience on PS4 so I'd contest that but not if you're discussing PC controller AA.

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Its good that tho you have different view, you see the points people are making. This speaks highly of you. Its good to know there is such people on here.

I didn`t read the whole aim assist discussion you two have, but i got to say this: while aim assist is really a powerful tool in the right hands, aka in the Pros, its not the same for lower to mid skilled players. If they lower the aim assist, this guys will be totally screwed, and won`t be fair.

Also there is a lot of people using Strike Pads and Cronusmax, which pretty much remove recoil and with some commands(i never ever play on controller, but its what i read and saw in youtube videos) add stronger aim assist.

So its hard to judge who is playing 100% fairly on controller, and people judge based on aim assist, while this guys maybe straight up cheating.

Also this things are super hard to detect. Warzone is full with such players. As far as i understand Cronus can also be used wireless, so you can even stream and show your controller and people won`t understand that you are hacking.

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@BrainDeadWraiths wrote:
@LordloshBangI hope they nerf the Mastif so you stop whining all the time.
Then maybe there will be another weapon that can be cryed about for a nerf.
* got outplayed, end of.

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Did you even watch the video ? Lets said i got outplayed by Mastiff, but did ShivFPS, guy with 150k kills, get outplayed by it? How exactly this is outplayed, being 2 taped, by a weapon with huge spread, that you pretty much can`t do a ...., and just take the shots?

As far as the nerf part goes on. Yeah i will do, if there is another OP weapons, that is obviously not balanced, neither require skill to be used.

Btw Diegosauer while ago was crying big time for the PK, and how unbalance it was. His word was like, 99% of the time i`m dying to lower skilled player by a PK. Its the weapon i died the most.

And PK at some point was beyond broken, as well as the Wingman in the start. Tho i got to say PK was always super strong. And Respawn obviously doesn`t have an idea how to balance it.

Its the same with the Mastiff.

So by your logic we should have accepted Wingman and PK when they were super broken, as it is, and not cried back then too, right ?

Thats your point. Don`t point the obvious.

@LordloshBang 
I have a friend who plays on console that has done a lot of testing with me about the aim assist, its strong. Its overpowered and strong at that. The second he turns it off its like he's playing a whole new game, He plays on a high sensitivity and because he has the aim assist he doesnt need to try to slow down or control his aim with it because the game does it for him. The aim assist is extremely easy to abuse. Also the "lower to mid tier" players can easily get better at the game without it, its not needed in order to play on a controller, people just try to push that its needed because they dont want to aim for themselves or they're too scared of actually learning how to aim. I bet you anything if AA was removed today, people would learn how to aim and shoot really quickly just like how they do on KB&M. Old online games had no AA, new ones dont need them either, they're there for lazy people who dont want to actually play the game. I actually feel like players who rely on AA would actually get better without it simply because they actually have to focus on aiming and playing rather than letting an AI do the work. 

@Oyasumlpunpunnow not only do you want to nerf the shotgum you want to nerf the aim assist.

lol

https://youtu.be/hshz2LhxuPY

all i use is the shotgun mastiff, eva 8, mozambique, and you lot want to nerf it so you want to nerf me too! i bloody well hope not! i can be rock and roll and make the game fun, for me at least, please dont conspire t nerf me!

https://youtu.be/1M4ADcMn3dA

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@gg123xyz wrote:

@Oyasumlpunpunnow not only do you want to nerf the shotgum you want to nerf the aim assist.

lol

https://youtu.be/hshz2LhxuPY

all i use is the shotgun mastiff, eva 8, mozambique, and you lot want to nerf it so you want to nerf me too! i bloody well hope not! i can be rock and roll and make the game fun, for me at least, please dont conspire t nerf me!

https://youtu.be/1M4ADcMn3dA

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You still need to understand how to use them. I watch one of yours clip, and your shooting with the Mastiff without ADS-ng. :D

Start in and out ADS with the Mastiff and you will understand why its OP. :D

Oyasumlpunpun, as i said i don`t know the whole discussion you two was for the aim assist i also don`t know how strong it is by myself, cause i never ever played Apex on controller.

I can judge from what i can see from pro players and there its pretty strong yeah, but its not the case on the lower levels.

I`m mouse and keyboard player, and having a good aim, doesn`t happen overnight. You need a lot of efforts, and that means years of play with the right practice in mind.

I for example spend so many hours daily on Kovaak and Apex Aim trainer and have to say the people that claim they got GOD aim in a month or so, are perfectly deluded. 

I`m saying all of this, because any game can`t be without its casuals. Some people just wanna play for fun.

If they remove the Aim assist, that will mean a lot of controller players will just leave. I can only guess, but judging how its on MnK i guess that becoming a top aimer/player on controller is not an easy task too.

Its not only Apex that have Aim Assist tho.

I`m just stating facts and the reason why they won`t remove it or lower it.

If you ask me i got no problem with the aim assist, but it should be equal to all, and right now its not equal to all, because of the cross play, and that thing should be an optional choice. If i wanna play cross platform i tick the box, if i don`t i unchecked. They should give us the option, and then i wouldn`t care if aim assist is strong or not, cause it will be the same for all.

From ShivFPS stream today, even he was amazed how he hit 70 from that distance with the Mastiff.

https://clips.twitch.tv/JollySteamyCourgetteDatSheffy

That should not be possible period.