I am just interested to see what all you complainers really want. 9/10 posts basically just say "SBMM is broken FIX IT" and not much more, which just makes them random whining tbh. So for the sake of the argument, lets assume that the ranked distribution gives a good estimation how "skill" is distributed among the player base. Its not a perfect model, I admit that, but it is pretty much the only estimation we have.Bronze: 17.76%Silver: 26.23%Gold: 36.25%Platinum: 17.75%Diamond: 1.89%Master & Apex Predator: 0.12%So for every 100 players that press "Ready" to start queueing for a game, approximately 18 will be bronze level,26 will be silver level36 will be gold level18 will be platinum level2 will be diamond levelnot even 1 predator level, more like 1/1000.So how would this SBMM gonna create lobbies, based on this? How would you suggest it does it? How would these match lobbies look like? GO! =)

First, it is not complaining it is criticism. People criticize because the system does not work as it should in CASUAL. My friends and I (8 people) play apex and all share the same experiences, we all very in skill level and play style yet the same things happen to us every time we play.I play on console and have never gotten out of gold. I have a .90 k/d and really didn't start playing until the middle of season 5. Yet, in more games than I can count I come up against predators and people with 20k + kills. First of all, matchmaking should search for best connection. Then filter through those players by skill, picking them by similar k/d and win loss ratio. I am not that good but I am playing people way above my skill level in casual. That is not fun. And get good is not a valid argument, some of the best players don't like sbmm. I am convinced that four things could be trueThere is no sbmm in casual Apex matchesThere is sbmm but it is broken and the devs don't care to fix itThere are so few players playing the game that this is the best the system can doThere is something more sinister going on, akin to the system 2k uses in NBA 2k my team to try and get you to spend more money, https://patents.google.com/patent/US20160005270A1/enRegardless playing the best players in the game does not make me want to play the game more.At the very least I would like an explanation of how the current system works. What do they have to hide? If it is a legit, fair system then they should be able to tell us how it works. I would like to bring something up. If you turn on your ping counter in game it is likely you will see that you have a much higher ping than your local server. My closest data center always has between 20-30 ping. But in every single game my ping fluctuates from 65 to 100 often sitting around 85-90. I have looked into this and some videos have investigated and concluded apex matchmaking pulls you off of your local server for skill based matchmaking. Why would pulling me off my server to one likely across the country be okay? I think this is why the servers feel so bad because we are not playing on our local servers.My theory, the developers or EA put in a system in which players who do not pay for microtransactions get put up against the best players. And people who frequently buy microtransactions get more fair matchmaking. Does anyone remember when the developers insulted the players? https://medium.com/@BenjaminWareing/apex-legends-developers-spark-outrage-c110034fe236 calling players "freeloaders" when the game is free to play?I would just like some explanations as to why I am playing the best players in the game. I have numerous screenshots and clips proving the matchmaking is unfair. If anyone knows how to upload xbox clips and screenshots to pc I would love to share them as evidence. I want this game to be good, I want to enjoy it again like the launch days. I could have been one of the best games.-A disappointed player, Kate

Maybe turn it upside down.What will make you quit playing, make you rage?Any of these will drop my fun level until I quit at some point (for the evening or somtimes for some days)starting games and dying early in the first minutes players who seperate early and drop solo players who leave as soon as they are downlosing fight with a clearly tactical advantagelosing against super jumpy player which are in front of me but I still cant hit themlosing too often in a row ( on a big scale - like not won in the last several days)feeling the game gets harder and harder even when i get betterwins got really rare for me even if I have the feeling of getting better (because I pulled of an amazing round two weeks ago)How could this be managed by SBMM ?First of I like the idea of random game lobbies - full SBMM should be a thing for ranked games.But the lowest skill tier (beginners, real casual gamers, players with less the x hours of total game time) should have their own MMNon team players (droping solo, leaving early) should be put together in squads - for x amount of time.High Skill Squads (like after x wins in 24hours) should be noted they are now a "hunted" squad - and you will get a special reward for killing them. (Maybe play a special audio when aiming at them. Or give them glowing eyes or whatever )If you still insist of having a SBMM (in unranked) a player should be able to see his match score (or squad match score). So they know they are loosing more because the got better and are higher matched!Add + or - from the match score based on some probability to get some harder and easier games within one evening. Make SBMM react to a premade squads - if they play often maybe even with its own score - it's just unrealistic to assume how a team will play together based on the solo players skills. (If there is one really low skill player or beginner and they show him Apex he will get stomped hard an deinstall... )

@Balladalidila sbmm will never be 100% working, allways someone will complainthere are to many people that wanna grind bots

@creamonurstream Maybe I was unclear. I mean only for casual game mode ofc, and not ranked. It seems to me that most SBMM complains is about public matches so thats what I mean. I just suggested we used the ranked distribution as a model to estimate the general skill distribution of the player base.

No, I am not very good yet play against predators more often than not in casual. I have plenty of evidence, I am not making stuff up. Also while playing squads I have played against a team ranked top 10 on the leader boards for total kills. The current system is not fair. I am not at these players skill level, yet am always playing against them.I just want this situation to make some kind of sense. Some kind of explanation would be great from the devs but I don't think they ever will.I am glad someone is at least listening to arguments and other criticisms instead of just saying "get good"Best,Kate

SBMM complainers...So how would your SBMM work then?

33 Replies

creamonurstream
5 years ago
Diamonds 3 plays in master and predator lobbies and you get paired with platinums occasionally with a bronze. I shouldn't have to explain. The logic here.
matzesingt
5 years ago
@creamonurstream well plat/dia/master/pred gets all thrown into the same pool in ranked but sbmm has no impact on ranked i guess?
matzesingt
5 years ago
@Balladalidila sbmm will never be 100% working, allways someone will complain

there are to many people that wanna grind bots
Pallo420
5 years ago
@Balladalidila The problem is that SBMM is very skewed at the highest and lowest levels for NON-Ranked matches.
My public matches include 10+ predator trails every game and numerous diamond trails. My matches include few or any of the lower skills. That is why people complain. Once you reach a certain skill threshold, every public game becomes very sweaty. Weekends and other high player count times are even worse as I will go against only pre-made teams of 25k+ kills each.
https://apex.tracker.gg/profile/xbl/pallo420
Balladalidila
Seasoned Ace
5 years ago
@creamonurstream
Maybe I was unclear. I mean only for casual game mode ofc, and not ranked. It seems to me that most SBMM complains is about public matches so thats what I mean. I just suggested we used the ranked distribution as a model to estimate the general skill distribution of the player base.
Balladalidila
Seasoned Ace
5 years ago
@Pallo420
10 Predator trail every match? What server are you playing on? What is your k/d if I may ask=
I have 2+ k/d and play on EU, and been in Diamond 2,3 or 4 for most seasons expect this one since I havent played any ranked. I see MAX 5 predator/masters trails per game, usually more like 2-3, and maybe 10ish Diamond trails. And the average level in my matches is quite low, I would say around gold-to-low plat, and I have usually not any problems at all to 1v1, even 1 v 3 many of my opponents, if I play it smart.
The only problem is when these 2-3 predators/masters in my lobby is in the same team. Then they just run over everything in their way since all other good players on the server is spread out in different teams, each with two bad randoms.
Btw I mostly play solo right now; maybe the matchmaking is sweatier if you play as a premade duo or trio. And I dont even know the situation on Xbox tbh. Maybe there are more casual, average players on PC.
Craigscave
5 years ago
i'm also a diamond 3 player and play on London servers. My lobbies usually have teams with preds and pretty much the whole lobby having diamond trails and some default.
If i play badly it obviously decreases.
Balladalidila
Seasoned Ace
5 years ago
@Craigscave
Well, thats maybe true. It "feels" like I get sorted in to a general hotter lobby after a 3000 dmg game but Ive never seen a lobby where "pretty much the whole lobby having diamond trails". Max 20 but thats it. Ofc they will usually jump early so if I also jump early, it will look worse than it is when I look around.
TCG_Maximus
5 years ago
@Balladalidila Well for one, ranked percentages are a bad measurement as even preds can still be in bronze rank and many diamond-pred skilled players don’t even touch ranked. The way it is now, if your slightly decent at the game, your going to have multiple 3 stack sweat teams, multiple preds and just loads of good players in EVERY lobby you get in to. It’s not fun having to go to ranked to get a break from sweating it out in pubs.

I’d say connection based is the superior way to do it. Completely coincidental and on average you would have a 50% chance to run into an average player, 30% chance to run into a below average player or above average player, 10% chance to run into a new/bad player or high skilled player and so on. Destiny 2 proved that this is what people actually enjoy having for matchmaking and it would be no different in any other pvp game.

Personally, I’m a 2 k/d player with a decent win ratio and that puts me in ridiculous lobbies with loads of players in the top percentile which I absolutely hate dealing with every single time I get on. People play ranked to be competitive and pubs to just have fun. Where is the fun in playing nothing but sweaty competitive games almost every match?

They could also have separate playlists for sbmm and for casual connection based so that new players can still face other new players and get into the game.
Balladalidila
Seasoned Ace
5 years ago
@TCG_Maximus
"Well for one, ranked percentages are a bad measurement as even preds can still be in bronze rank and many diamond-pred skilled players don’t even touch ranked."
Yeah I mentioned that in the OP but like I said; its kinda the only estimation of the player skill distribution we have, right? I mean, it doenst take into consideration that it it can be miles of skill difference between a Diamond 4 and a Diamond 1, or that the player count distribution in especially Platinum and Diamond probably is heavily skewed to the lower tier (many in D4, few in D1 etc). I just used those numbers to give a rough model how the general skill distribution may look like, just for the sake of the argument..
"’d say connection based is the superior way to do it. Completely coincidental and on average you would have a 50% chance to run into an average player, 30% chance to run into a below average player or above average player, 10% chance to run into a new/bad player or high skilled player and so on. "
If you mean that the SBMM should just pick the last 60 players that pressed "play" and put them in a lobby, in random teams, then I could not agree more. Thats how I see causal gaming, especially in a BR. It would result in the shortest queue time for everyone and that is the ONLY model that would make K/D a real measurement of your skill. Because it doesn't take a genius to understand that your K/D depends on the skill level of your opponent in comparison to your own skills. So only if the lobbies followed the overall skill distribution of the player base would a K/D stat say something meaningful of your skills, i.e where you are skill wise among all players.
The only problem that exist now and still would, also with a "connection based" matchmaking, is ofc how to handle random solos vs premade squads, especially premade full predator trios. Hrmmm