@Caluka1337 You don't improve from being vaporized instantly by incredibly better players than you. You just get frustrated. New players coming into the game don't care about getting better and want to play as they are but if they get instantly taken out by some sweaty tryhard, it will simply turn them off from the game. You seem to believe that matchmaking only favors the one that try to better themselves all the time when it's actually not the case. Also, you talk like matchmaking only puts you against a twin of yours (in terms of skill) when it is not the case. It puts people of SIMILAR skill level. You will then have people slightly less good against slightly better players (in a perfect matchmaking) which will them keep things challenging but give a fair chance to everyone and the less experienced will learn from it unlike if they get instantly roasted. Finally, because you experienced bad matchmaking in OW then it must mean it will be bad in all other games? Is that your argument?
@Caluka1337no worries.
I have to admit I have the perspective of a below average player who knows well enough I will never even reach average, and I know I am not the only one in this case. In fact there is easily 20% of the potential player base who will never "git gud".
It is clear also that the good players are the one bound to lose the most with skill based match maker.
A "perfect" skill based match maker will:
- bring bad player stats in number of kills and number of win up (a bit)
- severly bring down good player (from 90% win to 5% and big drop in kills)
Now.. many good players might be discouraged, but many bad player might join a game they will have never played otherwise, so it's tricky whether it's worth the implementation effort for Respawn.
Now I want to use your own arguments against you. Good player won't (should not?) be discouraged?
Instead they could take the increased difficulty as a challenge to get even better, couldn't they? I mean git gud is all the rage, isn't it?
Also, 2 clear bonus for good players:
- they won't be paired with noob. Which many good player seems to complain a lot about...
- they could boast of being the best of the best
That's where you are wrong.
Luck doesn't stop a veteran player from owning newbies with a p2020. Also lets say that a veteran player can easily run from newbies until he gets a weapon, the other way around will not happen.
Acting like reducing skill gap will remove "skill" from the game is laughable. If anything it will increase skill because the newbies will learn something when they die. The tryhards will have to learn something because now their targets will shot back.
I Said that before and i will say again: I don't think a ladder where people are neatly matched with people of their skill level is the way to go. But it needs at least one or 2 splits in the player base and EA needs to enforce that, banning streamers ta smurf is a good way to set a example by the way, because i cannot see this game getting anywhere.
@Caluka1337 The "huge luck" only really works early game for pro players. They will instantly vaporized people (the non pros, non twitch streamers, etc.) even if they have P2020 because ( 1)they are almost always playing in a premade of 3 with 2 pro friends and ( 2)they are that good at the game that even with a P2020 they will be able to drop noobs with better gear. Once the pros start dropping people, they are getting all the gear they need to continue and snowball the rest of the round.
When you say "You are diminishing the reward for players who play regularly and manage to get maybe not good, but decent at the game."
It sounds like you are saying "once you get decent you can sometimes destroy noobs and that's the reward". No, the reward is playing a challenging, non/lot less frustrating and, finally, fair game if you have good matchmaking. Pros destroying noobs is only entertaining for so long and, more often than not, by the time the pro grew tired of owning noobs, the noobs would have rage quit if that's the only sort of experience they have: either they get exciting and challenging engagements against fellow noobs or they get vaporized by way better/more experienced players.
About your athlete metaphore, having no matchmaking is actually like having real leagues of say hockey where you would see adult professionnal teams playing against kids teams in a real competitive way. Yeah, the kids can learn so much from being demolished (not). Oh and the kids will totally not say "F it, I ain't making a career in hockey". lol
I am an average player, maybe slightly above average and it's boring to destroy a squad of oblivious noobs while it's also frustrating to be instantly taken out by somebody that I'm not even sure if he's using cheats or not because he looks like he's THAT good/accurate. The best engagements are when both squads are about as good because it's fair and exciting (because you don't know the outcome, it's a 50/50 for who will win).
@TSF_VindictiV wrote:@Caluka1337 Finally, because you experienced bad matchmaking in OW then it must mean it will be bad in all other games? Is that your argument?
To be fair, the matchmaking in Overwatch is ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE. It should not be used as any sort of benchmark for accurate/good matchmaking but rather an example of what not to do.
@Mechdemon I would agree with that. In OW there would be times where I would be half drunk and our team would still ROFLstomp the enemy team, othertimes even if I was trying to win our team would be getting the noobs and we would be decimated in mere minutes. The matchmaking in OW really felt like there was no matchmaking at all.
@Mechdemon wrote:
@TSF_VindictiV wrote:@Caluka1337 Finally, because you experienced bad matchmaking in OW then it must mean it will be bad in all other games? Is that your argument?
To be fair, the matchmaking in Overwatch is ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE. It should not be used as any sort of benchmark for accurate/good matchmaking but rather an example of what not to do.
problem with overwatch is not matchmaker itself but the stat it is based on, the hidden mmr, issue with it is when you do too good, better than average stats with that hero on that map at that sr your mmr skyrockets and the game starts expecting you to carry the game and will actively start to sabotage you with low mmr players in your team so the hidden mmr averages out between both teams and if you are playing a hero or role that cant carry you are *, and will stay * even when losing 20 games in a row if you leave your mmr high with high stats. you can cheat the system with doing * like mostly dps moira and get from silver to platinum easily as your average heal will stay under 10k per 10min and game will reward your bad behaviour with better teammates. granted you need to do good as dps moira still.
Exactly. At a casual level no one cares about wins, they just want to get at least half into the match before some sweaty Peacekeeper's them from 100 feet away.
Matchmaking should be based on KDR as well, not just level
@AyothaKAT wrote:Exactly. At a casual level no one cares about wins, they just want to get at least half into the match before some sweaty Peacekeeper's them from 100 feet away.
Matchmaking should be based on KDR as well, not just level
the matxhmaking should not in the slightest be base on levels, it should be based on wins, eliminations, accuracy and most of all the rank, there should be a ladder, hidden or not, and every team average should be close to each other on that ladder.
^ So this.
"Your champion" *Game proceeds to present some dude and his 2 butt buddies all using sh*t buckets and without any responsabilities allowing them to play for 12 hours a day*
Me and my friends (either uni students or full time workers) :
LOL bad argument.... read what you wrote xD
@GrimyHR wrote:
@Mechdemon wrote:
@TSF_VindictiV wrote:@Caluka1337 Finally, because you experienced bad matchmaking in OW then it must mean it will be bad in all other games? Is that your argument?
To be fair, the matchmaking in Overwatch is ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE. It should not be used as any sort of benchmark for accurate/good matchmaking but rather an example of what not to do.
problem with overwatch is not matchmaker itself but the stat it is based on, the hidden mmr, issue with it is when you do too good, better than average stats with that hero on that map at that sr your mmr skyrockets and the game starts expecting you to carry the game and will actively start to sabotage you with low mmr players in your team so the hidden mmr averages out between both teams and if you are playing a hero or role that cant carry you are *, and will stay * even when losing 20 games in a row if you leave your mmr high with high stats. you can cheat the system with doing * like mostly dps moira and get from silver to platinum easily as your average heal will stay under 10k per 10min and game will reward your bad behaviour with better teammates. granted you need to do good as dps moira still.
So how is it for League of Legends then. Because that feels like the most competitive game I ever played in my life. Meaning almost every match seems very balanced and sporting.
I also think Titanfall 2 has a great matchmaker. Usually always close matches in that game even though it has such a low playerbase and extremely wide skill gap. Respawn did a good job there don't see why they can't do the same here.
I've never had long queues even in titanfall 2.
