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3 years ago

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Video: Proving S14 did nothing of value for Newcastle.

Its real easy to just "well I don't have that problem, so it does not exist" "it never happens to me so its not real". So today I bring the receipts. I recorded my trip back to gold from bronze and took note of nearly every revive that happened. The results speak for themselves: Season 14 did nothing of value for Newcastle.

You could remove every single upgrade you gave to Newcastle in S14 and nothing would have changed. His passive still gets melted, enemies still easily go over and around his walls, the hit detection is still so jank that you and the people you revive get killed mid revive, and most obvious of all, someone pays the price for your revive attempts. Whether it is the person you revived, yourself, your teammate, or all of the above, someone pays the price if you attempt a revive that a lifeline could not do in nearly every single situation.

That is why Newcastle so desperately needs the ability to store and give shields (and preferably health too) to downed allys on revive, at the cost of inventory items. You can roll back every single S14 change and just add this, and his issues would be solved. S14 did nothing of value for Newcastle.

legends

Kinesis862
3 years ago
@PholanxTTVYour "feedback" is considerably out of touch with average play, though I suspect you might normally sit plat or above? There is a rather harsh divide between gold and plat now, where meta becomes king and game logic goes to die, hence Gibby's nearly 100% pick rate but roughly 2% pick rate outside of that weird meta bubble that is the now plat former diamond barrier.
I still question how much you really watched the video when you can easily answer every question on my play by just watching it:
1) not covering the revive. (Team mate needs to cover)
2) allowing the enemy to get too close (you or team mate needs to either knock one of them, or deal enough damage to make them heal)
3) holding the revive all the way to the end instead of holding off the attacker. (Stop the revive and fight)
You can see my cooldowns, you can see how much cover I throw down to protect the teammates I try to revive. If you think the solution is to "just drop the shield and 1v1 them like a pro" you are sorely out of touch with an average gold or below support player.
People don't play the giant hitbox character because they melt their opponents with perfect aim while having a 2x disadvantage in hitbox. There is no merit to the "just drop the revive and melt them" argument. And worse yet is the "your barriers have so much HP" argument, completely devoid of the 10x sized hitbox associated with that HP. 175HP is nothing to single clip of every SMG out there that physically can't miss you at intended ranges.
Worse yet is your frankly insulting "you're just bronze level play with brain dead teammates" comments. Like come on, 60% of the population that even plays ranked is gold or below, and that's just of those that even bother to play ranked, outside of that is closer to 85% of the population does not "get gud, hit all your shots and have perfect situation awareness with their premade teams." The vast majority of play is solo-que pubs in non-ranked, the idea that "get guding and premade up" is the only way a legend makes sense is just insulting and horrifically out of touch.
That is why Lifeline excels, and Newcastle is becoming more Gibby levels of Niche just like Horizon and Seer are right now. The bizarro land on the other side of plat 4 is not a good metric to go by, specially given the small fraction of the playerbase that is actually living in that bizarro land completely out of touch with ordinary solo-que players experience.
So no, "just don't use his passive, let them die" is not even remotely a good argument against refusing to buff his passive. You can "nuh uh, your argument is baseless because I say so" all you want, but you won't be getting anywhere with me on the idea that Newcastle should just not use his passive as intended. That is why you get lifeline with a higher pickrate, but lower ranked average. Because of the backwards "just save yourself" revive logic that goes on in the higher ranks, which is pretty terrible for your solo-que team play when you get people that are all tired of getting downed just to be ignored by their team's definitely not a smurf hard carry and left to die. Ever wonder why even without the K/D exploitation people just bail on being downed?

7 Replies

PholanxTTV
3 years ago
Um no.
Newcastle is a good legend, when played well. You can't expect to run into a gunfight, drag someone away and get a free Res, expect retaliation and aggression.
In the first 30 seconds of the video, Newcastle has a white knockdown shield. Of course it's going to get melted. He also used his Tactical shield for no reason behind his ultimate wall. Big Waste.
He could have used his Tactical shield and his passive shield to drag the fuse behind cover but of course if 3 people shooting at the shield is going to destroy a white shield instantly.
And after watching the video again. You will notice he actually got shot in the back, the shield didn't break. A horizon shot him in the back with a Bocek while he was ressing which knocked him due to him being low health.
I watched most of the video and came to the conclusion that you are just not playing him well and are actually just making poor decisions that put you in positions that are not ideal for the legend.
Newcastle, when used correctly is an absolute beast. Ive mained mirage and lifeline for some time. But when I played Newcastle I was blown away with how efficient his resing was.
Being able to drag your teammate while resing them is so useful which is where lifeline fails. If your team mate is in a bad spot you get to move them, you also get a shield. Lifeline is static, if they aren't in cover and they are auto ressing they are as good as dead.
I noticed ALOT of missplaced points in your unfair scoring system. Where lifeline would not have been better. And where your team mates were short of a few brain cells when it came to not dying. There was no shield swapping, healing, times where you are shooting instead of healing, missing shots which is really where you were let down in this video.
This is bronze level play, if you want your legend to be better, you have to play better.
Newcastle can create space, cover and support so easily with the added bonus of not being pushed so easily. Obviously he will have counters, but every legend has a counter. People can walk around his barrier, but they can't climb over it. Giving you a few seconds. Pair that with a gold knock down shield now you are ressing them with half health and armour.
Of course no enemy is going to let your res for free. That would be bad play on their part, but you also can't expect to res for free, have a plan, sometimes your team mates can be better off down. Or you don't have to res at all. You can use them as cover, like if your enemy has a shotgun, you can start to res to get a shield while they shoot, and shoot between their shots, or make them waste an entire mag on your shield.
He is strong, you just need to think a little.
And that game where you say it was a good Newcastle game was normals, ranked compared to casual is a completely different level of play.
(I edited this because I felt rude in my first reply)
Kinesis862
3 years ago
@PholanxTTV This was your less rude reply? Really? I wanted to believe you were here to argue anything in good faith, but can't even be asked to watch a video in good faith. But no, you are here to just be contrarian with "I watched most of the video and came to the conclusion that you are just not playing him well and are actually just making poor decisions that put you in positions that are not ideal for the legend. Newcastle, when used correctly is an absolute beast. Ive mained mirage and lifeline for some time. But when I played Newcastle I was blown away."
Well post your video. I want to see your saves "beast of a newcastle" player, be sure to include the other 2/3s of people you leave to die and keep telling me he is a beast. I brought my receipts, so time for you to bring yours if you want to bring anything to the discussion that is not just empty conjecture.
"And that game where you say it was a good Newcastle game was normals, ranked compared to casual is a completely different level of play. "
... did you even read the text? It said "the game everyone thinks is normal", that was the whole point, that is the kind of game people keep claiming is normal for newcastle saying "he is a beast" but it was just a lucky pub.
PholanxTTV
3 years ago
Okay so I did watch the video up until the normals game. Saw every point you gave and most were questionable.
I don't have a video on hand, but hey in the next week or two, just for you, I'll make one.
In ranked you need to understand that not everyone can be saved and it's best to leave a team mate to get placements.
Leave them and get their banner later OR don't come back if it's too dangerous. Just how it is.
Since I have never seen you play before this I don't know how good of a player you are. I don't expect you to be a professional. And don't take this the wrong way, no offence intended, in the nicest way possible. You didn't play well in this video.
Your argument is baseless, he doesn't need to give team mates health on revive, he has shields to protect them. There is a gold knockdown shield in the game that does just that. He can drag them out of dangerous areas. If an enemy has pushed up to down them again that's on you or your team mate for:
1) not covering the revive. (Team mate needs to cover)
2) allowing the enemy to get too close (you or team mate needs to either knock one of them, or deal enough damage to make them heal)
3) holding the revive all the way to the end instead of holding off the attacker. (Stop the revive and fight)
Kinesis862
3 years ago
@PholanxTTVYour "feedback" is considerably out of touch with average play, though I suspect you might normally sit plat or above? There is a rather harsh divide between gold and plat now, where meta becomes king and game logic goes to die, hence Gibby's nearly 100% pick rate but roughly 2% pick rate outside of that weird meta bubble that is the now plat former diamond barrier.
I still question how much you really watched the video when you can easily answer every question on my play by just watching it:
1) not covering the revive. (Team mate needs to cover)
2) allowing the enemy to get too close (you or team mate needs to either knock one of them, or deal enough damage to make them heal)
3) holding the revive all the way to the end instead of holding off the attacker. (Stop the revive and fight)
You can see my cooldowns, you can see how much cover I throw down to protect the teammates I try to revive. If you think the solution is to "just drop the shield and 1v1 them like a pro" you are sorely out of touch with an average gold or below support player.
People don't play the giant hitbox character because they melt their opponents with perfect aim while having a 2x disadvantage in hitbox. There is no merit to the "just drop the revive and melt them" argument. And worse yet is the "your barriers have so much HP" argument, completely devoid of the 10x sized hitbox associated with that HP. 175HP is nothing to single clip of every SMG out there that physically can't miss you at intended ranges.
Worse yet is your frankly insulting "you're just bronze level play with brain dead teammates" comments. Like come on, 60% of the population that even plays ranked is gold or below, and that's just of those that even bother to play ranked, outside of that is closer to 85% of the population does not "get gud, hit all your shots and have perfect situation awareness with their premade teams." The vast majority of play is solo-que pubs in non-ranked, the idea that "get guding and premade up" is the only way a legend makes sense is just insulting and horrifically out of touch.
That is why Lifeline excels, and Newcastle is becoming more Gibby levels of Niche just like Horizon and Seer are right now. The bizarro land on the other side of plat 4 is not a good metric to go by, specially given the small fraction of the playerbase that is actually living in that bizarro land completely out of touch with ordinary solo-que players experience.
So no, "just don't use his passive, let them die" is not even remotely a good argument against refusing to buff his passive. You can "nuh uh, your argument is baseless because I say so" all you want, but you won't be getting anywhere with me on the idea that Newcastle should just not use his passive as intended. That is why you get lifeline with a higher pickrate, but lower ranked average. Because of the backwards "just save yourself" revive logic that goes on in the higher ranks, which is pretty terrible for your solo-que team play when you get people that are all tired of getting downed just to be ignored by their team's definitely not a smurf hard carry and left to die. Ever wonder why even without the K/D exploitation people just bail on being downed?
heme725
3 years ago
@Kinesis862 i think your response was a little more aggressive than necessary. That said @PholanxTTV should know posters are likely to respond poorly to the phrases "brain dead teammates" or "gold level play" so maybe he expected it.
By the looks of it you play on PC so your experiences in combat are likely different from mine. Your shield usage seemed a little bizarre until I saw how quickly players dropped your team from range so it probably makes sense for you.
@PholanxTTV Is right about some of your revives though. Reviving with an enemy nearby and no teammate supporting you should be a death sentence. This one you did several times in the few minutes I watched (finishing when off work.)
Basics of reviving mid combat:
#1. Revive behind cover if possible
- NewCastle makes his own cover and drags them to better locations
#2. Dissuade the enemy from pushing the revive.
- Damage them enough to force them to heal or have a teammate provide cover fire.
You only accomplished the first step and even when your teammate provided cover fire they did so poorly. If they knew to use cover (like you did) your squad could have faired a bit better. There's only one situation where you were unfairly screwed over but break time is over.
PholanxTTV
3 years ago
Yes I am out of touch with average levels of play, I used to get to masters, now I hit diamond, could probably hit masters but haven't had much time to play lately.
I watched the entire video, made note of all the questionable plays. If you like I can tell you where you went wrong or times where your death wasn't the fault of the the Legend.
From my understanding of your 3rd paragraph is that you don't want to get better, you want it to be easier. Some people can't be saved, if the entire enemy team is barreling towards you and and you stick the revive to get them knocked again what have you achieved? Sometimes a revive is not worth doing, should only be done when you know you can do it.
Newcasltes hotbox shouldn't be that much of an issue when he has shields and walls to place. You don't need to "drop the shield and 1v1" you can play around the revive. Shoot, revive, shoot, revive, if you miss all your shots then it's not the fault of the legend.
Okay so you want to buff an already good legend because you have to think how to play him? You are expecting to revive for free, this game doesn't work like that. Every time I get a knock or my team gets a knock you say "KNOCKED ONE GO GO GO PUSH!" So they don't revive. Other legends, that can't move while reviving don't give health or shields. Lifeline doesn't give health or shields and she is reviving statically. Gibby doesn't but he has a protection bubble. Newcastle gets to move them to cover, where lifeline would have to wait for them to get into cover.
"That is why Lifeline excels, and Newcastle is becoming more Gibby levels of Niche just like Horizon and Seer are right now."
This makes 0 sense. Lifeline doesn't excel at all. Since she lost her shield however many seasons ago, she has become far worse. Gibby is not "niche", Gibby has been meta since the game began? Seer and horizon are also great picks.
I never said "don't use his passive let them die" I said sometimes it's better to let them die. If they are in a position that will get you killed, leave them l, let them get to cover while you provide covering fire.
It's not a baseless argument "because I say so", it's baseless because what you are asking for is a buff because you can't use the legend well. You want free revives. You want him to have a permanent gold shield. Does that not sound utterly ridiculous? For someone that can shield and protect and move already you want him to have more?
There's a difference between using his passive as intended and using it wrong, you are using it wrong. running out into the open with a white shield and expecting to get your team mate out of imminent danger then complaining when the enemy have pushed up to stop you.
I play solo que 90% of the time. If they die out of position then it's not on me to go and 1v3 pull them from a burning house and get away with it.
PholanxTTV
3 years ago
Sorry you are right.
Although I never said braindead, just short a few brain cells. Like when he was reviving pathfinder and loba came with a peacekeeper, he made no effort to get away or loot the death boxes nearby to shield swap. He went in for the melee.
Bronze - Gold level play is fact, by looking in the top right corner. Did not mean it as an insult.