"You say apex mm is already loose, but it's not. Reason being that you encounter more players of same skill sprinkled with some players above your skill."
I'd love to know where all the players near my skill level are at, because I never find them.
I've included my stats. They aren't great, obviously.
I've also included a photo of the shiela that killed me.
And the player that killed her.
I couldn't fit a fourth photo, but their team mate was a lvl 26 smurf.
This is not an issue due to ping, or even bugs in the game. This is the * mm system we have.
I don't know what kind of lobbies you're getting, but mine are filled with these.
You said it yourself that fun was worth more...this is not fun.
I'm a casual player. I should not be going against players of this caliber. Considering my stats vs those players, I fail to see how apex mm is anything but loose.
So no. It isn't that you aren't wording your replies properly.
"Yet it confirms what I'm saying - that we need more bad, average, and good players on all teams, not just some, in some kind of balance."
I believe this was already tried, and failed.
No one wants teammates worse than they are and no one wants to be the one holding their team back.
This is not a good way to form the match making lobbies all it does is add stress to what is supposed to be a fun game by making one player work harder than needed by giving them inadequate teammates and makes the game unplayable for those that can't keep up or learn at a slower pace.
@blackeyeriver
I did say my stats were awful, I also never claimed that stats don't matter.
The point being a person with my kdr in apex should not be going against players like that. It's not that I'm entirely unskilled in the game, I can point and shoot a gun, I can take cover and throw grenades, I can get to the last circle, I'm still learning the best way to use my abilities, but going against people who have played the game non stop since it's release? How is that a true testament of what anyone is actually capable of? How does that create accurate statistics when you get taken out by some diamond or masters that just stomping the entire lobby? If it was every now and then, fine, but no, it's every lobby. Every game. Every time.
You say fortnite is loose, where my kdr is 3.64 in comparison to apex.
You also have been saying a loose mm is better yet you are also claiming to have the same experience in fortnite, that I have been having in apex, yet you don't think apex's mm is loose? How does any of that make sense?
So what? Because you aren't having the same issue that many players like myself have been having apex's mm isn't loose?? It's all sounding backwards to me at this point.
I honestly don't care if fortnites is loose or tight, it's just been better.
You keep saying Variance key but you continue to fail to see that if you have too much of a variation, then you create lobbies that are heavily favored to one side. Which is what apex has now. The tdms? Too much variation. One side heavily outweighs the others a majority of the matches as was shown by Ccbathwater. Yet you shrugged off as just being a different game mode issue.
In the br? You get what I myself showed you that you just shrugged off to try and validate your own opinion more.
"3 bullet deaths don't happen in the best of lobbies often."
The 'best' lobbies are filled with cheaters of all varieties. So your point on that matter seems heavily inaccurate.
Quiet honestly there isn't anything you can say at this point that would help me understand your view.
QED.
If we have the same experience in fortnite doesn't that prove my point instead of disqualify it? Your kd is much higher in fortnite and so is mine, and like I stated before there are obviously (enough) both good and bad players in those lobbies to make maintaining it possible, you just don't know who you're gonna run into. The tighter the mm the more the numbers gravitate towards 1 kd and 5% win rates in something like apex. If fortnite had a tighter mm system we would see more or less something similar, but we don't. There are legit amateur players running around with 4-5kd's and 20% win rates. How is that achievable if the mm was supposedly fair? Kill 4 players or like you 3.5 per match every time if we're all the same? Not gonna happen with tight mm. It would adjust accordingly, like apex tries two do relentlessly to bring that number down. You wanna sweat in fortnite? Play ranked. Then we see similar skills, as it should be. In apex I see no difference in ranked or casual.
A 50% chance of winning a 1v1 in apex would mean, hypothetically, as I know loot plays a part and other things, that you would go back to the lobby pretty darn often. That's a steep slope to climb if we want everything equal, and a tiring experience. I never said the mm is perfect, and I'm not a fan of mm in general, but don't you think the game would be more fun if you also encountered enemies that whiff their shots? Miss whole clips up close etc? These players do exist but you don't get the luxery of seeing them because of mm. This is why I say it needs more variance, because those players are just missing in action. They have their own lobbies where they are given the same treatment as the rest of us and is a sweat fest in it's own way as a result.
And yes, arena style shooters from what I've played had the same issue where good players weren't distrubuted evenly among the teams. Destiny, even after they "fixed" the mm still had this same issue. I wasn't shrugging it off, just saying that I'm used to it by now and don't expect it to change. Well, maybe when xdefiant launches, cause no mm, but that's still a while off afaik.
I missed something?
Dude I said I get good and bad opponents alike in fortnite and the game feels good because of it.
You said in apex you mostly get killed by good players, nowhere did I see you say your opponents are bad players or that you regularly kill a lot of them or that they are even in your lobbies. You would not complain otherwise. So, how is it the same? I think that proves what I'm trying to say meaning that the mm is pretty strict in apex in protecting bad players. Yes you'll get the occasional cracked opponent but rarely does it seem like opponents are way worse than you.
And I honestly don't get why you are even opposing me. I simply suggested to loosen the lobbies, obviously within reason, to make them less sweaty vs what the community seems to want which is to turn the casual mode into another ranked mode.
@blackeyeriver
"You said in apex you mostly get killed by good players.. "
Go back and look at my kdr. 0.08. You don't get much closer to the 0 out of 0-100 than that. I'm not running into much of the 0 because I AM the 0.
You aren't going to run into many players at that skill level because they're already dead by the end of the game if I even manage to make it there, which is why those I do run into are diamond players or smurfs.
I am not in the slightest protected so no it does not go with what you have been saying. Apex does not protect its players. The smurfs are literally proof enough of that.
While you might find it as opposing, I just don't understand how you think fortnite is looser in comparison to apex when they literally put ai bots in the game to balance out their lobbies and help novice players work their way into higher skilled lobbies. They don't remove the bots from high skilled lobbies either, there's just less of them than actual players so they aren't filling in the blank spaces with players that aren't ready for those kinds of opponents
That's the opposite of loose to me.
Imo apex is already very loose in its mm. It just doesn't have anything to balance it out. Which is why I think it needs to do what fortnite did and add actual ai bots.
Pros get their easy target practice from bot teams, and weaker players can work their way upwards and gain better skills along the way.
I honestly do not care which it is. It just needs to be fixed.
That's enough on the matter.
Ok, I see what you mean, I struggle to fathom 0.08 so I don't know what is happening to your lobbies in particular. In mine most seem to be either as good as me just in terms of accuracy alone or a few who are better and it's plenty sweaty too. The average kd in apex is around 1, so it seems whatever is happening to you might be some sort of exception. Do you have high ping by any chance? It could be contributing to this.
I know all about the Ai, they're easy to spot and don't count towards your kd *when you use fortnite tracker to track your stats* (I looked it up prior) and I don't actually count them as opponents as they are hilariously bad. But tbf, if it's a bad player in terms of Ai or otherwise it still serves to make things less sweaty either way in general lobbies. As for the players at the very bottom you are correct, it would serve them better to play each other mostly, as there's no one else below, but it won't really work for the better or average players the same way as it just becomes ranked without the points then. In my argument I was referring to the average lobby (and better players after that) since most players fall on the average part of the bell curve.
At this point we have been going back and forth on details and semantics. But one thing we can agree on is that yes, I too think the game would be a lot more fun if they adopted fortnite's formula in some way, whatever that means to either of us.
