I have had my account since Season 0. I have 1600 career kills, after about six seasons that I've been active in. 1600 kills, across every character, total. My KD ratio is 0.52. This season alone, I have over 300 more deaths than kills; almost 700 deaths, a little over 300 kills. My win ratio is 1.4%. My past 20 games, I have been top 10 in maybe 5 of them, if even that.So I totally deserve to go against players with multiple Master tier badges with over 7000 kills on that character alone, right?I tried switching gamemodes and comparing, and there's literally no difference. I've seen two pred badges in ranked this season, and I'm currently only Platinum 4 (I don't even deserve Platinum, but that's a different subject).Like I can't even learn to play the game or gradually improve. I'm just * on every lobby and it makes an absolutely miserable experience. There's no learning experience or practice when I'm just dead the moment I fire a shot. In any other competitive game, this would be a quick hotfix, and yet we're supposed to deal with this all season??

@Catffeine_Cafe wrote:I have had my account since Season 0. I have 1600 career kills, after about six seasons that I've been active in. 1600 kills, across every character, total. My KD ratio is 0.52. This season alone, I have over 300 more deaths than kills; almost 700 deaths, a little over 300 kills. My win ratio is 1.4%. My past 20 games, I have been top 10 in maybe 5 of them, if even that.So I totally deserve to go against players with multiple Master tier badges with over 7000 kills on that character alone, right?I tried switching gamemodes and comparing, and there's literally no difference. I've seen two pred badges in ranked this season, and I'm currently only Platinum 4 (I don't even deserve Platinum, but that's a different subject).Like I can't even learn to play the game or gradually improve. I'm just * on every lobby and it makes an absolutely miserable experience. There's no learning experience or practice when I'm just dead the moment I fire a shot. In any other competitive game, this would be a quick hotfix, and yet we're supposed to deal with this all season??You must understand that in a free to play game, the game is not the product, you are.The matchmaking is designed to feed you to the 'content creators' and streamers (Type 2). From your self description, you are either a long term Type 5 who has failed to give up and move on like me, or a Type 1 who has just hit their personal skill cap. Neither type will ever have fun with this matchmaking.

As a pretty solid Type 5 who has probably hit my skill ceiling, plays alone or with 1 other person I know at most, & still hasn't quit, I can say @Kyldenar is spot on. I am one of those people that is just above the line of uninstalling give or take depending on the day & my mood. About 10% of the time I have games that make me think Apex is the best game ever created. The other 90% ranges from 'meh' to rage induced insanity. I'm on the morphine drip that Apex's SBMM puts average players on and I just haven't gone off the edge enough to go cold turkey. Maybe I'll find another drug (The Finals?), but maybe I'll just enjoy the high enough to get over the side effects.

@Axs5626Sxa5001Most definitely it is a minority. And there are also variables that cannot be clearly defined. For example a boosted account that has pred trail and or pred and master badges. it could be in that lobby but be a very sub average player using it.That would be enough to make players believe they are actually in a lobby they do not belong to.In my experience, I have noticed that it is very easy to "move up" after a positive game, or 2, but extremely hard to get into an easier lobby.I understand under performing. But that has to be relative. I cannot believe that a pred would be put in a .25 k/d lobby. That should never happen. That type of lobby is reserved for special needs. I do not care how bad a pred needs his adrenaline rush. That is cheating (in that case enabled by SBMM hopefully).All in all it is less of a SBMM issue, and more of a lackluster way of preventing/addressing abnormal behaviors such as cheating/exploiting.I have probably addressed this very issue in other conversations. I believe that stopping players from using ANY macro would be a tremendous improvement. But this is for another discussion.

@KyldenarImagine they can manufacture content creators with "AWAB" (Accounts With Added Benefits).Imagine accounts are not created equally. Content creators have a "better" account than others. As in, hit boxes are smaller. Hits register less. Enemies hit boxes are a little bit larger. Etc.Rigged so that content creators have an easier time, while regular folks just a bit harder one.*Puts tin foil hat down*

@Axs5626Sxa5001A quick scanning of Twitch would reveal that fact. When certain streamers play pubs it is evident that their lobbies are considerably harder than the "average" lobby.However, suppose a very below average player with a .3 k/d. Why would that player ever be in a lobby where there is even 1 Master/Pred?And this is regardless of whether that player fights the above.Now, is that master/pred fudging with the stats for "content creation"? If so that player should be banned.How did a player with .25 k/d ends up with even a single master in his lobby? It cannot be that there are not enough .25, .26, ..., .n for n<.5 players such that a lobby of 60 players cannot be put together?Although skewed, the bell curve for skills is still a valid tool. There are going to be way more players less than master/pred than average and below average.This is not taking into account smurfs. Smurfs exists and contribute to make the experience of the above players, and OP as miserable as it is.

Brilliant Matchmaking System | EA Forums

12 Replies

Kyldenar
Seasoned Ace
2 years ago
@Catffeine_Cafe wrote:
I have had my account since Season 0. I have 1600 career kills, after about six seasons that I've been active in. 1600 kills, across every character, total. My KD ratio is 0.52. This season alone, I have over 300 more deaths than kills; almost 700 deaths, a little over 300 kills. My win ratio is 1.4%. My past 20 games, I have been top 10 in maybe 5 of them, if even that.

So I totally deserve to go against players with multiple Master tier badges with over 7000 kills on that character alone, right?

I tried switching gamemodes and comparing, and there's literally no difference. I've seen two pred badges in ranked this season, and I'm currently only Platinum 4 (I don't even deserve Platinum, but that's a different subject).

Like I can't even learn to play the game or gradually improve. I'm just * on every lobby and it makes an absolutely miserable experience. There's no learning experience or practice when I'm just dead the moment I fire a shot. In any other competitive game, this would be a quick hotfix, and yet we're supposed to deal with this all season??
You must understand that in a free to play game, the game is not the product, you are.
The matchmaking is designed to feed you to the 'content creators' and streamers (Type 2). From your self description, you are either a long term Type 5 who has failed to give up and move on like me, or a Type 1 who has just hit their personal skill cap. Neither type will ever have fun with this matchmaking.
HappyHourSumwur
Seasoned Ace
2 years ago
As a pretty solid Type 5 who has probably hit my skill ceiling, plays alone or with 1 other person I know at most, & still hasn't quit, I can say @Kyldenar is spot on. I am one of those people that is just above the line of uninstalling give or take depending on the day & my mood. About 10% of the time I have games that make me think Apex is the best game ever created. The other 90% ranges from 'meh' to rage induced insanity. I'm on the morphine drip that Apex's SBMM puts average players on and I just haven't gone off the edge enough to go cold turkey. Maybe I'll find another drug (The Finals?), but maybe I'll just enjoy the high enough to get over the side effects.
Axs5626Sxa5001
2 years ago
@Catffeine_Cafe

Look, I think it stinks that you aren’t enjoying yourself, but I have to be frank about a few things:

-I think a good amount of people expect the game to utilize some sort of matchmaking that maximizes their chances of winning (or at least breaking even). People get upset when they lose.

In my opinion, win and lose rates should be determined by the individual skill of the player, and not on an algorithm.

Hear me out— you’re losing to Masters and Preds each match, but is that happening EVERY match? I ask because I’m a Masters player (40k plus matches played) that CONSISTENTLY plays against and loses to better Masters and Pred (in PUBLIC MATCHES).

So I will respectfully say to you what I often say to others on this forum:

If me and 59 other Highe Diamond to Preds are all in the same lobby every single match, that means that the MAJORITY of us at any single time are not constituting your lobby.

Again— the majority of high skilled players are indeed only playing each other in pubs. You having one or two Masters players/teams is NOT the same as having your entire lobby comprised of Masters players.

Can you imagine how disenchanting it feels to know you’re in the top 5% of players, but you lose and get crushed 99% of the matches you play? It’s a terrible feeling.
hayhor
Hero
2 years ago
@Axs5626Sxa5001I've always believed max rank achieved affects the long term factor in matchmaking. I wonder how all the not normal masters players for this season will affect things?
Axs5626Sxa5001
2 years ago
@hayhor It probably does. I guess I have come to accept it.

What I have a harder time accepting, is people saying “there is zero matchmaking” because they are below average and have below average outcomes. That sounds TERRIBLY mean and I hate that— I can’t stand people who take rude approaches to complex discussions.

But the truth remains that many players want outcomes that are above what their skill warrants. I guess I have become obsessed with calling people out when they allude to “no matchmaking”, because there is a HUGE portion of the community who have no idea that high MMR pub lobbies exist— you know, those lobbies that literally have no one below the 4k 20 bomb level player.

I can play a 6 hour session and literally play 100% Diamond Master Pred every game, and lose 100% of my games. So I genuinely get frustrated when people declare that they “should be winning more”.

Its just all so silly lol.
Vdstrk
Seasoned Ace
2 years ago
@Kyldenar
Imagine they can manufacture content creators with "AWAB" (Accounts With Added Benefits).
Imagine accounts are not created equally. Content creators have a "better" account than others. As in, hit boxes are smaller. Hits register less. Enemies hit boxes are a little bit larger. Etc.
Rigged so that content creators have an easier time, while regular folks just a bit harder one.
*Puts tin foil hat down*
Vdstrk
Seasoned Ace
2 years ago
@Axs5626Sxa5001
A quick scanning of Twitch would reveal that fact. When certain streamers play pubs it is evident that their lobbies are considerably harder than the "average" lobby.
However, suppose a very below average player with a .3 k/d. Why would that player ever be in a lobby where there is even 1 Master/Pred?
And this is regardless of whether that player fights the above.
Now, is that master/pred fudging with the stats for "content creation"? If so that player should be banned.
How did a player with .25 k/d ends up with even a single master in his lobby? It cannot be that there are not enough .25, .26, ..., .n for n<.5 players such that a lobby of 60 players cannot be put together?
Although skewed, the bell curve for skills is still a valid tool. There are going to be way more players less than master/pred than average and below average.
This is not taking into account smurfs. Smurfs exists and contribute to make the experience of the above players, and OP as miserable as it is.
hayhor
Hero
2 years ago
@Axs5626Sxa5001 I totally get where you are coming from. My statement was more along the lines of how will this mess up matchmaking?
Kyldenar
Seasoned Ace
2 years ago
@Vdstrk Considering there is no "kill cam replays" and the like, it would be easy for them to do that and make it hard to notice. So, not saying you are right but... can't prove you wrong, either.
Axs5626Sxa5001
2 years ago
@Vdstrk

Your scenario happens because of the way that the current matchmaking manages “ladder/bucket progression”.

There are different matchmaking buckets and a player’s performance will influence what bucket they are put in.

EA/Respawn does NOT want some one losing for consecutive hours without a win. They want players to experience that dopamine rush associated with winning a game. So they will demote above average players into average lobbies, and average players into below average lobbies. This typically takes about 6-9 games. But this rule does NOT apply to certain accounts that are flagged; accounts with lots of data are probably looked at as “experienced” and do not move up and down the ladder at the same speeds as everyone else. And EA/Respawn are probably ok with treating these accounts like this because the data probably shows that these players continue to play and spend money despite their excessive sweat and losses.

On my main account (40k game’s played) it takes roughly 25-35 games with no kills and no damage to be placed into easier lobbies. But it takes me less than 10 games on other accounts to achieve the same. I have accounts (for experimentation purposes) with MUCH HIGHER outcomes (KD, win rate, average damage, etc) than on my main.

My original point is: lower skilled players absolutely can run into a higher skilled player who is on a severe losing streak. They play each other and the more skilled player wins. How is this controversial? It’s not like every single gun fight the lower skilled player has is with a much much higher skilled player. Those instances are the minority and some people treat them as these grand offenses and exaggerate their frequency; this is what bothers me. I dislike when people are dishonest.