how do we hire anonymous to make us a good anticheat against theese giants?
Btw, this post is just talking about the issues we face as gamers. I'm not going against, nor defending, Apex Legends. Cheaters, and gaming companies, are willing to do anything to flush out their gaming competitors. Gaming companies have been known to hire people to create cheats, then they use those cheats against other gaming competitors. This is just another way that cheaters, and/or gaming companies, will go to destroy their competitors.
Have a good day gentlemen and ladies! 🙌 It's a crooked world we live in! 😢 We have to fight back as gamers! 😃 That's all I'm saying. 👍
If you don't believe me about these issues, please do some research.
The main thing to understand here is how anti-cheat works. When you understand this, it becomes clear how cheating is impossible to get rid of.
Anti cheat works in 3 main ways.
1. Signature detection - The detect of certain patterns of bytes in memory, checked against a database
2. Heuristic analysis - Behavior and stat analysis (is this player suddenly winning every game with 10/1 KD, all headshots etc)
3. User reports
1. Signature detection
This is the primary method in which anti cheat functions and cheats are detected. And its the main reason why cheating is is prevalent and can't be stopped. This works very similar to anti-virus. Let me explain a typical cycle.
Hack is developed
Cheater is detected
If available, the hack signature is entered into a database
Now this signature is entered into this database and is always being checked for
This is almost exactly how anti virus works. The virus is let out into the world, its eventually detected. The rouge code is contained, analyzed and entered into a database. When this signature is detected, the anti virus software quarantines that file. The cycle continues.
But here is where things fall down for anti-cheat, specifically step #3. Lets assume a cheater is caught and banned - great, but how is it possible to stop other people from using the same cheat? Well, anti cheat needs to have the signature of the cheat (exactly how antivirus is working). But think about how incredibly difficult that information is to get, its not like they have the 'file' just sitting there.
One of the only ways to actually get the signature is from a memory dump from that users computer, good luck getting that! Even then with that dump, its incredibly challenging to sort thru and actually get a signature. You need to be qualified and know your stuff. Not only that, but even after expelling a ton of resources to fish out a signature and enter into a database, its incredibly easy to modify the code and create another variant of the cheat (junk code, function changes, etc) that masks the signature into a new one.
This is an uphill battle and frankly cannot be solved.
Okay, so lets spitball here for a bit and think of some other ways anti cheat can get signatures. Well, for one, they could just scour the web and download any public cheats they can find off sketchy Russian/Chinese sites and ban those signatures -- cool, this gets rid of bunch cheating script kiddies and other people who cant code, probably ~80-90% of cheats out there, but the real problem still exists. This is a band-aid solution.
Private cheats
This is why its impossible to ever stop cheating. Private cheats. If I create a 100% homebrew cheat (meaning all custom code, no copy-paste, not borrowed function libs or dlls), its 100% impossible for anti cheat to detect me using signature analysis alone. By creating a 100% unique signature, the cheat has effectively circumvented anti cheat's primary method of cheat detection. Methods #2 and #3 are the only other ways now, which I will get into. However, this is the primary evidence that suggests cheating is an unsolvable problem. You can cut out 80-90% of the people who aren't developers, but the remaining people exist in a sort of bubble outside any actual way of getting caught.
Careful cheaters cannot be detected and essentially exist above the rules.
2. Heuristic analysis
This stuff can get pretty complicated, but its a simple concept. This is behavioral and statistical analysis. Lets say you're the average player. You've set a baseline of your performance. Sometimes you have excellent games and spike above that baseline, great, that's normal. You can also improve as a player and over time improve your baseline, that is also normal. You can also totally suck a bunch of games in a row because you let your little cousin player and lower your baseline. That is also normal. Whats not normal is suddenly winning all your games, getting insane KDR, super long range kills, etc.
This is what, in a nutshell, heuristics analysis is. Of course this is very straight forward stat analysis, and anti-cheat is clever and actually go into some insane tracking and analysis that I cant even wrap my mind around (very advance statistics and mathematics). They also track things like how your mouse is moving (they can detect macros, such as AHK) and can determine if you're using aimlock by tracking how you're moving your mouse (example, its unnatural to move your mouse X distance in repeating increments, like a program would do it). There's a whole other plethora of things that make the system pretty insane.
The downside to this is that its waiting for a cheater to make a mistake. A careful cheater who understands this wont trigger these flags. They'll slowly raise their baseline as expected, and wont make big jumps in their game play. They make sure to lose a few games here and there, sprinkle some wins, and overall "game" the system. People do this.
3. User reports
This is pretty straightforward and there isn't a whole lot to say about this... overall though, a careful cheater won't spark anyone's attention.
The conclusion that can be drawn is that cheating is here to stay. The primary means of detection can be circumvented by custom/homebrew cheats, and a careful cheater wont trigger any flags. Cheating and hacks aren't going anywhere - most likely forever there exists games to cheat on.
@Jungle-Beard wrote:The main thing to understand here is how anti-cheat works. When you understand this, it becomes clear how cheating is impossible to get rid of.
Anti cheat works in 3 main ways.
1. Signature detection - The detect of certain patterns of bytes in memory, checked against a database
2. Heuristic analysis - Behavior and stat analysis (is this player suddenly winning every game with 10/1 KD, all headshots etc)
3. User reports
1. Signature detection
This is the primary method in which anti cheat functions and cheats are detected. And its the main reason why cheating is is prevalent and can't be stopped. This works very similar to anti-virus. Let me explain a typical cycle.
Hack is developed
Cheater is detected
If available, the hack signature is entered into a database
Now this signature is entered into this database and is always being checked for
This is almost exactly how anti virus works. The virus is let out into the world, its eventually detected. The rouge code is contained, analyzed and entered into a database. When this signature is detected, the anti virus software quarantines that file. The cycle continues.
But here is where things fall down for anti-cheat, specifically step #3. Lets assume a cheater is caught and banned - great, but how is it possible to stop other people from using the same cheat? Well, anti cheat needs to have the signature of the cheat (exactly how antivirus is working). But think about how incredibly difficult that information is to get, its not like they have the 'file' just sitting there.
One of the only ways to actually get the signature is from a memory dump from that users computer, good luck getting that! Even then with that dump, its incredibly challenging to sort thru and actually get a signature. You need to be qualified and know your stuff. Not only that, but even after expelling a ton of resources to fish out a signature and enter into a database, its incredibly easy to modify the code and create another variant of the cheat (junk code, function changes, etc) that masks the signature into a new one.
This is an uphill battle and frankly cannot be solved.
Okay, so lets spitball here for a bit and think of some other ways anti cheat can get signatures. Well, for one, they could just scour the web and download any public cheats they can find off sketchy Russian/Chinese sites and ban those signatures -- cool, this gets rid of bunch cheating script kiddies and other people who cant code, probably ~80-90% of cheats out there, but the real problem still exists. This is a band-aid solution.
Private cheats
This is why its impossible to ever stop cheating. Private cheats. If I create a 100% homebrew cheat (meaning all custom code, no copy-paste, not borrowed function libs or dlls), its 100% impossible for anti cheat to detect me using signature analysis alone. By creating a 100% unique signature, the cheat has effectively circumvented anti cheat's primary method of cheat detection. Methods #2 and #3 are the only other ways now, which I will get into. However, this is the primary evidence that suggests cheating is an unsolvable problem. You can cut out 80-90% of the people who aren't developers, but the remaining people exist in a sort of bubble outside any actual way of getting caught.
Careful cheaters cannot be detected and essentially exist above the rules.
2. Heuristic analysis
This stuff can get pretty complicated, but its a simple concept. This is behavioral and statistical analysis. Lets say you're the average player. You've set a baseline of your performance. Sometimes you have excellent games and spike above that baseline, great, that's normal. You can also improve as a player and over time improve your baseline, that is also normal. You can also totally suck a bunch of games in a row because you let your little cousin player and lower your baseline. That is also normal. Whats not normal is suddenly winning all your games, getting insane KDR, super long range kills, etc.
This is what, in a nutshell, heuristics analysis is. Of course this is very straight forward stat analysis, and anti-cheat is clever and actually go into some insane tracking and analysis that I cant even wrap my mind around (very advance statistics and mathematics). They also track things like how your mouse is moving (they can detect macros, such as AHK) and can determine if you're using aimlock by tracking how you're moving your mouse (example, its unnatural to move your mouse X distance in repeating increments, like a program would do it). There's a whole other plethora of things that make the system pretty insane.
The downside to this is that its waiting for a cheater to make a mistake. A careful cheater who understands this wont trigger these flags. They'll slowly raise their baseline as expected, and wont make big jumps in their game play. They make sure to lose a few games here and there, sprinkle some wins, and overall "game" the system. People do this.
3. User reports
This is pretty straightforward and there isn't a whole lot to say about this... overall though, a careful cheater won't spark anyone's attention.
The conclusion that can be drawn is that cheating is here to stay. The primary means of detection can be circumvented by custom/homebrew cheats, and a careful cheater wont trigger any flags. Cheating and hacks aren't going anywhere - most likely forever there exists games to cheat on.
And that's why we need all 3 methods together to keep the amount of cheaters at a minimum.
Rainbow6:Siege uses all 3 after they took a huge hit in year one because massive amount of cheaters.
Now they have Battleeye, Fairfight and User-Reports which is the most effective thing they can do (wont catch all, but most of them). If they would additional sue every caught cheater it would even be less, but they still care about their reputation (remember the shitstorm against Epic for sueing a 14yo old)
@Jungle-Beard wrote:The main thing to understand here is how anti-cheat works. When you understand this, it becomes clear how cheating is impossible to get rid of.
Anti cheat works in 3 main ways.
1. Signature detection - The detect of certain patterns of bytes in memory, checked against a database
2. Heuristic analysis - Behavior and stat analysis (is this player suddenly winning every game with 10/1 KD, all headshots etc)
3. User reports
1. Signature detection
This is the primary method in which anti cheat functions and cheats are detected. And its the main reason why cheating is is prevalent and can't be stopped. This works very similar to anti-virus. Let me explain a typical cycle.
Hack is developed
Cheater is detected
If available, the hack signature is entered into a database
Now this signature is entered into this database and is always being checked for
This is almost exactly how anti virus works. The virus is let out into the world, its eventually detected. The rouge code is contained, analyzed and entered into a database. When this signature is detected, the anti virus software quarantines that file. The cycle continues.
But here is where things fall down for anti-cheat, specifically step #3. Lets assume a cheater is caught and banned - great, but how is it possible to stop other people from using the same cheat? Well, anti cheat needs to have the signature of the cheat (exactly how antivirus is working). But think about how incredibly difficult that information is to get, its not like they have the 'file' just sitting there.
One of the only ways to actually get the signature is from a memory dump from that users computer, good luck getting that! Even then with that dump, its incredibly challenging to sort thru and actually get a signature. You need to be qualified and know your stuff. Not only that, but even after expelling a ton of resources to fish out a signature and enter into a database, its incredibly easy to modify the code and create another variant of the cheat (junk code, function changes, etc) that masks the signature into a new one.
This is an uphill battle and frankly cannot be solved.
Okay, so lets spitball here for a bit and think of some other ways anti cheat can get signatures. Well, for one, they could just scour the web and download any public cheats they can find off sketchy Russian/Chinese sites and ban those signatures -- cool, this gets rid of bunch cheating script kiddies and other people who cant code, probably ~80-90% of cheats out there, but the real problem still exists. This is a band-aid solution.
Private cheats
This is why its impossible to ever stop cheating. Private cheats. If I create a 100% homebrew cheat (meaning all custom code, no copy-paste, not borrowed function libs or dlls), its 100% impossible for anti cheat to detect me using signature analysis alone. By creating a 100% unique signature, the cheat has effectively circumvented anti cheat's primary method of cheat detection. Methods #2 and #3 are the only other ways now, which I will get into. However, this is the primary evidence that suggests cheating is an unsolvable problem. You can cut out 80-90% of the people who aren't developers, but the remaining people exist in a sort of bubble outside any actual way of getting caught.
Careful cheaters cannot be detected and essentially exist above the rules.
2. Heuristic analysis
This stuff can get pretty complicated, but its a simple concept. This is behavioral and statistical analysis. Lets say you're the average player. You've set a baseline of your performance. Sometimes you have excellent games and spike above that baseline, great, that's normal. You can also improve as a player and over time improve your baseline, that is also normal. You can also totally suck a bunch of games in a row because you let your little cousin player and lower your baseline. That is also normal. Whats not normal is suddenly winning all your games, getting insane KDR, super long range kills, etc.
This is what, in a nutshell, heuristics analysis is. Of course this is very straight forward stat analysis, and anti-cheat is clever and actually go into some insane tracking and analysis that I cant even wrap my mind around (very advance statistics and mathematics). They also track things like how your mouse is moving (they can detect macros, such as AHK) and can determine if you're using aimlock by tracking how you're moving your mouse (example, its unnatural to move your mouse X distance in repeating increments, like a program would do it). There's a whole other plethora of things that make the system pretty insane.
The downside to this is that its waiting for a cheater to make a mistake. A careful cheater who understands this wont trigger these flags. They'll slowly raise their baseline as expected, and wont make big jumps in their game play. They make sure to lose a few games here and there, sprinkle some wins, and overall "game" the system. People do this.
3. User reports
This is pretty straightforward and there isn't a whole lot to say about this... overall though, a careful cheater won't spark anyone's attention.
The conclusion that can be drawn is that cheating is here to stay. The primary means of detection can be circumvented by custom/homebrew cheats, and a careful cheater wont trigger any flags. Cheating and hacks aren't going anywhere - most likely forever there exists games to cheat on.
You just copied it from internet. So, nothing new.
Plenty of the cheaters aren't just ruining the game for fun, they're just trying to have some fun themselves as casual players. What else can they do in a game without SBMM?
Lately i feel like they aren't even working on the game... I expected alot of fixes when Season 1 came out, but it brought more issues... I also met alot of cheaters today and we still don't have the fps cap fix... I want to have patience with this game but it's slowly starting to drop...
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