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Xubunnytwo's avatar
Xubunnytwo
3 years ago

How to Defeat the Cheat

It is my hope, this thread will be both positive and knowledgeable in assisting future programmers and developers to make better clients for their games.

This topic came to mind after I replied to yet another thread about cheating being so common in Apex Legends.  I stated, "PvP game format will have to evolve into something very different, if we are going to block these cheaters. Who knows what the new format might be, only the future can tell.".  I believe the future starts now.  Let's put our big brains to work and think about something a machine cannot do playing a video game.  I pondered about this issue and I will kick it off with my first idea.

Set a puzzle up in the lobby for the player to solve while they are queued to play.  I know this leans more at anti-bot, but a Turing Test could be added to the wait time in order to assure a human is at the controls. It could also be a source of entertainment to pass the time waiting.  The cheaters are starting to use hardware to bypass the EAC (Easy Anti-cheat) software.  While I do stand  behind EAC, it will not be useful much longer, should hardware hacks become more common place.  It is my opinion, some type of "Network Map" needs to be recorded to investigate and detect how the player's system is being routed.  This along with a hardware check for more than one additional GPU's. Multiple video capture cards could be evidence the player is sending video to a dirty PC or they are only streaming the game live.  Regardless this would be a red flag and need to be investigated further. 

Give it some thought, how would you change a game to block the cheater?

discussion

9 Replies

  • BigMacAttack8u's avatar
    BigMacAttack8u
    Seasoned Ace
    3 years ago
    @Xubunnytwo I would add abnormality detection, which would flag an account if it happened repeatedly.

    This would contain:
    Detecting if you are snapping by comparing how fast you turned, with how much you turned, and see if it lines up with your settings.
    Aimbot detection, detecting a sudden increase in skill (over a long time) this would also prevent boosting.
    Detecting whether a shot is possible or not by detecting where the enemy was pointed, and basically drawing a hypothetical line so where a bullet would hit.
    These would be hard to code, but it seems like it would be possible.
  • reconzero's avatar
    reconzero
    Seasoned Ace
    3 years ago
    @Xubunnytwo

    I would reduce the skill ceiling for aiming. By a lot. Suddenly the real competitive differentiators in the game would become teamwork and strategic thinking, aspects of gameplay for which there is no cheat.

    Go ahead and try it though. I can hear all the ALGS players ringing and gnashing as I type this.
  • Xubunnytwo's avatar
    Xubunnytwo
    3 years ago
    @BigMacAttack8u I believe line of sight isn't all that difficult to code, just a question of what the developers are willing to do. Most of these companies (not just this one) use EAC as a crutch and they need to incorporate changes within the client and server side software.

    @reconzero I agree that making the PvP more strategic would be a great focus. My lodger told me, since the software uses image shape detection AI, you could liter your map with human shaped targets such as statues. We spoke about this briefly before he went to bed. Maybe you would have players thinking the statues are people, but so would the AI. Then it might kill more stone figures than players making it useless?

  • reconzero's avatar
    reconzero
    Seasoned Ace
    3 years ago
    @matzesingt

    If Apex was just another arena shooter then I would agree with you. Thankfully there's a lot more to battle royale than just aim. If you make aim less of a thing, then some of those other things that I mentioned become more important. The game doesn't become less competitive. It becomes competitive in other ways. Not every game has to be a test of cat-like reflexes. This game also rewards teamwork and strategic thinking, and if aim was less of a factor then teamwork and brains would be more of a factor. IMO.
  • DrenMadre's avatar
    DrenMadre
    3 years ago
    @BigMacAttack8u wrote:
    @XubunnytwoI would add abnormality detection, which would flag an account if it happened repeatedly.

    This would contain:
    Detecting if you are snapping by comparing how fast you turned, with how much you turned, and see if it lines up with your settings.
    Aimbot detection, detecting a sudden increase in skill (over a long time) this would also prevent boosting.
    Detecting whether a shot is possible or not by detecting where the enemy was pointed, and basically drawing a hypothetical line so where a bullet would hit.
    These would be hard to code, but it seems like it would be possible.

    why not make it even simpler?

    let's face it, the true "aimbot" is the bane of this game.......even knowing where your enemy is, you still have to be able to hit and kill him.

    With the changes to the firing range, we know they can track hit percentages, headshots, damage dealt, etc......why not use that to at least get the gross offenders?

    100% hit rate?    100% headshots?    these are the easy ones to track and get rid of

    Think about it.....your absolute BEST game, you were "on", everything worked, you were UNSTOPPABLE......I'll bet you probably didn't have better than maybe 70-75% hit rate, maybe 20-25% headshots......

    Yes....you can turn aimbots "down", but it would be at the VERY least a start......and as soon as that idiot starts to climb in ranked and HAS to turn up his aimbot to even compete, the system flags and bans him.

    and yes.....there are absolute UNGODLY real players out there, but it's very easy in a system to "exception" a playername/GUID. 

    So, Aceu or ImperialHal get a ban ONCE......then they get flagged, the ban is lifted, and they never have to worry about it again........

    ......unless they want to smurf, then (as far as I'm concerned) let them go thru the whole process again. 

    MY OPINION: Predator/Master level players creating new accounts just so they can stream and drop an easy 20 bomb to make $$ is a total s-bag way to make a living.

  • Wolferato's avatar
    Wolferato
    New Ace
    3 years ago

    @Xubunnytwo  Had to grant you kudos for imagination.

    But let's be realistic. Coding applications that surveil the networks and users hardware is more tedious then modeling skins and maps or even some game mechanics. Besides, there are laws (privacy) involved, which differ per country. I'm also pretty sure, that some services to the game are provided by other software companies and cost a lot of money. You also might start calling EA as CIEA (Central Intelligence Electronic Arts).

  • Xubunnytwo's avatar
    Xubunnytwo
    3 years ago
    @Wolferato before I got too old, I worked computer security for some major companies. As a contractor, I set foot in some sensitive areas I still can't talk about today. Over the +40 years, I saw some very weak security that makes one stare at the ceiling at night wondering how the sun rises each day. So yes, since I don't expect high security systems from them, I expect it even less in online games.

    One of the worst security situations I ran into was a place where the building air-conditioning was turn off on the hottest days in the summer to save money. The employees then used random object to prop open security doors to allow air to flow through. Anyone on these hot days could just walk in without a security card. While I refuse name the company publicly, I will say tampering with their internal workings would have life threatening effects on several major metropolitan cities.

    I think many people take gaming more serious than public safety. I do tend to fall back on my old days as a contractor for support. I think the more reasonable solution is something like reconzero stated above making the shooting backseat to the strategy. Currently I get more XP for survival than I do kills. The format might never apply to this game, but what about the games to come on the horizon?
  • Wolferato's avatar
    Wolferato
    New Ace
    3 years ago

    @Xubunnytwo 

    Concerning future games:

    Currenly, the relationship between the client and the server is pretty weak. The client performs all the actions, and passes the data to the server. The server is incapable of detecing anomalies, like rapid fire, super speed, and other (client) hacks. I understand, that if the server had to check everything, it would cost a lot of processing and bandwidth and serving thousands of players at the same time would make the game very laggy, not to mention very expansive. That's why the client requires EAC. In the future, as the processing power and bandwidth increases, software engineering gets more advanced and the costs go down, servers will be capable of processing the incoming data and detecting if there's anything out of the ordinary. Long story short, if the cheat detection becomes server-side, then it's all over for cheaters. It's just too much effort to hack the server for long time for just a few headshots. This will remove the need for EAC and client-side hardware or network hacking becomes pointless.

    Concerning cheaters:

    So far, there are two types of cheaters, I'm aware of.

    1. Those who suffer serious emotional issues.

    2. Very smart and aware people.


    For the first group, I won't go into detail for obvious reasons, only good parenting and/or intensive psychological assistance is recommended.

    For the second group, well that would require a new world paradigm.

    I don't support cheating, but let me provide you with a certain and maybe a bit controversial perspective:

    - Cheating is considered as doing something that puts other players in a disadvantage.
    - The current MM, in their view, could be considered as a cheat. For it purposely puts you in a disadvantage to make you lose and crave for a win afterwards, instead of matching you in a    honest way and with equal level players. Engagement-based MM it's called.
    - This group of cheaters is well aware of this and doesn't agree. In their eyes it's manipulation for the purpose of greedy cash grabs and asserting a certain control by these media/entertainment corporations.
    - Thus, their reason to cheat is to rebel against the big guy. Beat the system, so to speak. Their fight is not against you, but "them".

    By the way, if you've ever been on 4chan, and read the topics on game cheating, the difference between those two groups would become clear. Their bias is pretty prevailing in their responses.

    Concerning where to go from here:

    As I mentioned in another post, https://answers.ea.com/t5/General-Discussion/Respawn-s-solution-for-cheaters-and-smurfs-in-S16/td-p/12286762, the S16 MM changes, might decrease the problem to a certain extend. If it works, but it remains to be seen. But if it does, then perhaps it's the salvation we have been looking for. I've already come to some other conclusions, but that's for another topic.

    And if someone wonders what I'm babbeling on about, don't mind me. It's late in the night over here, and just finished my 3rd bottle of beer. Cheers!

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