Re: Apex Legends Smurfing and Matchmaking

@lightning_5oNot being able to play with friends (because the SBMM is determined off of the highest ELO player) is absolutely positively the most egregious facet of modern SBMM in games.

Online multiplayer should literally NEVER deter you from playing with your friends. But Apex in particular is super punishing for lesser skilled players trying to enjoy their time with friends. I’m open to debating some of the other aspects of SBMM and it’s implications on gaming in general, but this particular issue really cements my hatred for forced SBMM in pubs. 

Again, ranked should absolutely put restrictions on the experience of playing with friends— but public matches? Really? It’s ridiculous. The fact that people support this (because it’s “the lesser of evils”) is ridiculous too.

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@Axs5626Sxa5001 wrote:

@RC_Ocean

That’s the kind of thing that prompts players to create new accounts.

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This is out of control now.......smurfs over a span of an HOUR that I came across tonite (Gold I).....not to mention 2 obvious ESP/aimboters besides (a whole different discussion).

One account, that's it.....it's ridiculous now.  I quit Apex for over a year and came back.....and considering another break...

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@Axs5626Sxa5001 wrote:

@lightning_5oNot being able to play with friends (because the SBMM is determined off of the highest ELO player) is absolutely positively the most egregious facet of modern SBMM in games.

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All multiplayer games I played works like this. Its a reason, its to keep newbies interested so they invest in the game.

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@DrenMadre wrote:

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@Axs5626Sxa5001 wrote:

@RC_Ocean

That’s the kind of thing that prompts players to create new accounts.

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This is out of control now.......smurfs over a span of an HOUR that I came across tonite (Gold I).....not to mention 2 obvious ESP/aimboters besides (a whole different discussion).

One account, that's it.....it's ridiculous now.  I quit Apex for over a year and came back.....and considering another break...

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The sad fact is that Apex does not define smurfs as smurfs, they have their own definition of smurfing that enables you to make traditional smurfs to ravaging newbies so they quit the game at your own leisure, in pubs you get tossed up into high lobbies fast but doing ranked you can safely play bronze to gold and have simple lobbies without getting handled by the SBMM. I just watched a stream from hideouts to get a proper view on what is referred to as a smurf and he was playing a lvl 20 farming silver lobbies in ranked at the time, and clearly said that that was fully legal. I am still not fully sure what an Apex smuft is to be honest.

The high levels that dont want to play at the level they belong, I understand the fun in utterly ruining the day of 57 other players for your own fun but if you turn that around, do you think its fun to get farmed by the top preds - I just think EA and Respawn need to clean up and redefine smurfing, All my old Apex friends stopped playing because of this so I had to find new Apex buddies to keep playing.

@ZkepzAll MODERN day multiplayer games do this, because they realized that if they maximize the likelihood that below average-skilled players win, they can make a bit more money.

While I almost don’t blame the company’s using this strategy, we shouldn’t turn a blind eye to how this specifically targets above average skilled players for profits.

Again I can’t help but speak solely on my own experience:

the game places me in a situation that encourages my continued play to improve to win more— yet I win less overall because I improved myself too far— to Masters level, where I am designated to lose to Preds and Better Masters players. Lmao. Pubs shouldn’t be like this. 

When above average players lose more than below average players (because the game is intentionally putting them in situations to lose) that’s an issue, no? 

But the majority of the playerbase are average/below average, so most people don’t care. Anything that increases their chances of winning gets a green light. 

In your dreams and logic the majority of the playerbase would play ranked and master and pred pubs. It's a reason they model it on sports division system. Where lesser athletes can win their division and lower competition to help develop talents to raise to elite level. This is also the reason apex can float 100mil players while games without barely manage and many shut down within a year. This is also why pubs has sbmm, if it caters for only 1% of the player base the game will become a proper dessert. You want the 1% to have a place to let their shoulders down and make fun of the rest, where the rest going to do that? It's a reason that master and pred is 1%, the AVG guy with a proper job and perhaps a family won't be able to do that without loosing one of said things and that is the people who actually able to buy things.

It's the 99% that caters for the 1% to have a vibrant game going where they can excel, even if it's sweaty and hard.

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@Axs5626Sxa5001 wrote:
@ZkepzYou do agree with this right— that people in my skill bracket deserve to have an extra difficult time so that lower skilled players can enjoy themselves?

So what reward should be put in place to make it worth a player’s time to improve and such? Any words of advice for me, as I go on my 2nd week of daily games with no wins?

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"Right"??  You worked your way up to Master, you're fighting against your (more or less) equals.....no one ever said it was easy at the top....

THIS tho.....an obvious master/Predator who for whatever reason decided to smurf, absolutely MOWING down players that are far below him.....

.....where's MY reward making it worth MY time and effort to try and get better?

@DrenMadre @RC_Ocean this is the official position on smufs. One Smurf good, two smurfs bad 😃

I wonder if Conor means concurrent Smurf accounts for all legends, as against a new Smurf account each season, to do the rank solo to masters for all legends?

@DrenMadre to be fair master is not top of the food chain, some of the preds are quite a force to be reckoned with, and this is probably one of @Axs5626Sxa5001 issues, and would like to be able to get away from this at times, and he is looking for an incentive to stay in that bracket.

And @Axs5626Sxa5001 , i would say masters is 1st Division but not elite division. You have the option to go play ALGS, and get payed if you find a team and can qualify, you have the skills to be able to become an influencer, in general idd say you have a sweaty game day but at the same time you have better crew with you, idd say you are sweating the same way as everyone else. Still if you care about the trail you got that, but I do think managing to get to master and pred should give even more then just the trail, not money that's never gonna happen but unique skins pr season that only those select few get to float around, and esport wise more then ALGS should be there, they should do like Fortnite where algs is the big one and they have several comps for different ranks  where price could be skins for diamond ups every other week or so and comps with small cash prizes master up every other week or so. I think that would be awesome and it would also give a new dimension to content creation for the people who do that aswell, this would also create a platform to recruit for algs. And being a part of algs would make you a pro so you cannot participate in said armature comps.

I think this would in general give the masses even a better reason to grind for diamond up and get that extra flavor to ranked in general  pubs is pubs it's a place where it can be sweaty but not the same kind of sweaty but to be honest if the sbmm is removed there would be nowhere for people to go to get an easier game outside of masters and preds. In general I don't think this would be good for the health of the game.

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@lightning_5o wrote:
@ZkepzSee if something like a unique master or pred skin for a character of your choice was implemented I’d still be irritated by SBMM but maybe a little bit less. My reward for being pred is a dive trail, badge, and a pub experience that makes it where I can’t play with friends or family and playing solo means I have to carry 2 below average players against 3 stack master and preds

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This is why having an alt is legal, I have this for my daughter, my alt is only allowed to pick up p2020 and give all the cool loot to my daughter, given those limitations I naturally stay in her segment.... I also make sure I do not make them kills. That way I can play with her, and if I had a different buddy who was in between I would make one more alt and try stay within his skillrange to have fun. Its legal too. Sadly I cant gloat my skins and everything so I would rather they make an alt possibility in game that helps you keep within ToS and you can use your skins across the alts so you can have fun with your buds without going in full sweatmode and have them complaining about dying before they can land.

@lightning_5o just try play only movement once in the first lobbies, I was able to dodge a full team of 3 without cover in the first lobbies and get away... you quickly see why the sbmm is in place. I would feel quite queezy going full sweat in those lobbies - and then just think back and realize I was there at some point in time might be a good benchmark 🙂

If you're a master player, you should be against masters and preds.

So, your reasoning in favor of why people smurf is:

'I can't win loads of games against my SAME LEVEL, which leads to me feeling bad about my games. So what I'll do, is start a new account to play against lower levels, and so what if those new players all feel bad about their games, because they're fighting people WELL ABOVE their level.'

That's not a great way to fight the case for smurfing, and it isn't a great way to keep new or even average players playing.

I feel the same. I can't even play with my sons anymore. Just punished for playing with each other. It defeats the whole team based aspect of this game. Sad. We don't play together anymore. My sons would rather play with a random so they have a slight chance at having some fun - because when playing with me, they get destroyed game after game without mercy or a break or a bone thrown in. 

What's the point of a team based game if you can't play with your family or friends? 

"Sigh"

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@NickBeam27 wrote:

I feel the same. I can't even play with my sons anymore. Just punished for playing with each other. It defeats the whole team based aspect of this game. Sad. We don't play together anymore. My sons would rather play with a random so they have a slight chance at having some fun - because when playing with me, they get destroyed game after game without mercy or a break or a bone thrown in. 

What's the point of a team based game if you can't play with your family or friends? 

"Sigh"

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This is easilly remedied with an alt and switch off sweatmode and just have fun with a p2020 or something together with your son. If you go sweatmode you will be right up there again so you know.

I hear you, I really don't want to resort to making another account. I have held off this long. 

Still have little anxiety in regards to possible being banned if I did. 

I truly despise smurfing.... and although I appreciate your advice to help enjoy the game with my sons (honestly I do), I just can't bring myself to do it. I don't fault someone for doing what you suggested for only the reason of playing with your kid....not at all. I just cant do it. 

But really appreciate the suggestion  : )

Thing is the hated smurf is the people going all sweatmode on a noob lobby ruining everyone's day. If you run around with a p2020 having fun, dieing on purpose so your son can Res you and in general not ruining anyone's day your son will love it, people get their fun and you can have a proper laugh at the same time.

When I go full force again I need two alts, main for team, one for soloranked and one for my daughter. Two sweaty and one bubu account with the worst stats ever.

Increasing the level minimum for Ranked should be done ASAP.  It won't eliminate smirfs but it sure will reduce the number to only the truly dedicated a-holes.  Pubs matchmaking should adjust to smurfs...anybody who drops a 20 bomb in a low level lobby should be immediately moved up.  Pub stomping is obnoxious, IMO.

The downside of reaching your goal....Losing against someone better....Dont want to lose?..Reach your goal then wait til next season or just random play lobbies.