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hayhor's avatar
hayhor
Hero
4 years ago

Re: Blue boys and girls

@Cheese9Man and @reconzero both make valid points. Just yesterday, playing with a friend we finished off the 3rd place team and then had to go hunt for the last squad. I said to my friend, I bet these guys are all setup in zone just waiting and sure enough they were. As we approached my friend shot one and goes "one has white shields". We laughed and then quickly wiped the whole team. No one had better than blue, all had snipers and no idea what to do when we just went at them from different angles. It was like we were the pred team that usually just walks though us.

I do want to address 2 items though-
"IT'S JUST PUBS" - This mentality is so cringe worthy and when people say it they come off as better than others. The only difference between pubs play and ranked is they give you points that do not actually mean anything to anyone. Game companies have discovered that instead of giving you meaningful things to enjoy and grind towards, they can use the idea of "competitive play" and de-ranking to keep people coming back. Think about this- What do you really get for all that time ranking? It isn't like you earn a living, get paid or get anything of any use for it. That push you make in pubs but won't make in ranked is bad no matter when you do it.

Getting better- I agree with cheeseman in that if you never play aggressively, you will never improve your fighting and pressured looting. I also agree with recon that everyone will eventually hit a wall where they struggle to get better.

I know it is kinda cringe to quote a streamer but most think the same way as Nick says in this video. For those that do not know, he moved from Warzone to Apex due to the cheating in Warzone so he was way behind the curve in skill. He spent months in Masters lobbies dropping contested, continuously fighting to improve his skill. Having watched the progression it was pretty impressive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUma5Q3b-_w

11 Replies

  • swift07's avatar
    swift07
    4 years ago

    @hayhor
    When people refer to non-ranked lobbies as "pubs", they're not flexing or insulting others, it's just a way of saying it is not as competitive but more relaxed. And yes, I believe there is a difference between ranked and pubs, points being a part of it, but also, not as "sweaty". You don't see as many 3 stacks in pubs making strategic plays as if there was something on the line. Even if they are in a 3 stack, most likely they are playing more relaxed. That is in general, since you do have 3 stacks occasionally playing really sweaty. Also, it's not saying there aren't good players in pubs, cause there are, but again, not as sweaty.

    I don't think ranked or competitive play was solely designed to retain players. Competition has always been present in everything we do.
    Doesn't make sense to not have that in games. Also, it's good for the game. If highly skilled players just played pubs and they just kept stomping them every day, most likely they would lose interest and play something else. By providing a competitive ranked system, they will be placed in lobbies with others that are similarly skilled to them and have something to strive for. Competitive is also a venue for talented players to get discovered. Furthermore, competitive creates excitement for the rest of the community and promotes the game, which will lead to growth. If there was no competitive, this game would probably be dead or have a substantially smaller playerbase, which might not be feasible for any company. Even game companies need to make profit.

    As for skills, people don't hit walls, they just get steeper hills to climb. Meaning that it will be harder for you to improve later in the game and you will not see drastic improvements but smaller ones. You will never stop improving. Once you believe that you have "hit a wall", you're mentally hurting your progression with content. Also, making a statement that you "hit a wall" seems a bit arrogant. If you've hit a wall, then why are you not a pro?

    @cheesemanThat makes me laugh when I come across the final team(s) and they got blue shield on. I think to myself, "what were these guys doing all game??" Then I assume they are not very good at the game or casuals trying to get a win. Not sure why people play like that in pubs. The more you fight, the more you will improve.  You learn from your experiences.

  • reconzero's avatar
    reconzero
    Seasoned Ace
    4 years ago
    @swift07

    "[pubs] it's just a way of saying it is not as competitive but more relaxed."

    I'm not saying that people should or shouldn't treat ranked differently from pubs. I'm just saying the difference is perceived and not real. The game remains the same whether players choose to behave the same or not.

    "By providing a competitive ranked system, they will be placed in lobbies with others that are similarly skilled to them and have something to strive for."

    SBMM is supposed to insure that players are placed in lobbies with similarly skilled teammates and opponents regardless of whether there are ranks to be seen or not, whether ranks are at stake or not. So ranks as a motivator I'll allow, but visible ranks as a necessary component of sbmm? Only as a check on whether sbmm is working properly or not, and you know what? It isn't. It never does.

    "Furthermore, competitive creates excitement for the rest of the community and promotes the game, which will lead to growth."

    This is true. I don't understand why, but I acknowledge that it is. I guess I was just born without the spectator gene.

    "As for skills, people don't hit walls, they just get steeper hills to climb. Meaning that it will be harder for you to improve later in the game and you will not see drastic improvements but smaller ones. You will never stop improving. Once you believe that you have "hit a wall", you're mentally hurting your progression with content. Also, making a statement that you "hit a wall" seems a bit arrogant. If you've hit a wall, then why are you not a pro?"

    So much to say here. Jump up into the air and measure how high you go. Then jump and measure again. Then keep doing it. Trust me when I say there will never be a jump where you just keep going up. For as long as you remain in the gravitational field of the earth then there is a limit to how high you can go. Period. A fixed limit beyond which you will never get. The high point is different for different people, and different people will experience different motivations for jumping, motivations which may have a material effect on how high they can go. But there is still a limit.

    Aiming, movement, even to some extent game sense, are all like this. I don't call that pessimism or giving up. It's just acknowledging that human beings have natural limits. I'm not saying that we all hit them, and you're right to point out that even the best players have room for improvement. But at what cost? In order to gain what? There is such a thing as the law of diminishing returns and since I'm not a predator/streamer there's no incentive whatsoever for me to push beyond reasonable limits. This isn't a job, it's a game. It isn't (for me) supposed to be a grind, it's supposed to be entertainment. We don't have to call it a wall if the acknowledgement of human limitations offends you, but that's what it looks like to me. A huge, impenetrable wall.





  • swift07's avatar
    swift07
    4 years ago

    @reconzerohow are you going to argue and say perceived, when lobbies are made up of different types of players and how they are played is different? Lower skilled players as a group spend more time in pubs then higher skilled. Even when higher skilled players play in pubs, they don't take it as serious. They usually try to get the most kills vs. trying to win the game. It's a different atmosphere and it's not something you can perceive, it's just what it is.

    There is no SBMM on Apex. It's something like EBMM. 7 out of 10 games, you get very low level teammates and your opponents also have a similar make up. That's not SBMM, it's this horses*** MM created by Respawn in order to retain players.

    Why are you comparing gravitational pull to improving your skills? You have no control over gravitational pull. You can always improve your skills, no matter where you're at in the game, it just gets more difficult later on, and the return isn't as substantial as it was when you were early to midgame.

    Your last paragraph contradicts the previous. Nobody said you should spend a lot of time to keep pushing and improving. My statement was that you can always improve.

  • CCbathwater's avatar
    CCbathwater
    Seasoned Ace
    4 years ago

    The key to pubs is being the last one alive. Now, on ranked, drop hot, rack up kills, as you know, Hal won that game and got 0rp, so obviously killing half the lobby on ranked seems good for progressing on the rp ladder.

    Ranked is dogwater btw.

  • swift07's avatar
    swift07
    4 years ago
    @CCbathwater lol yeah, that is season 14 ranked. You have to have kills and then place top 5 to get points. Ranked is dogwater 😞
  • hayhor's avatar
    hayhor
    Hero
    4 years ago
    @swift07 People do hit walls they can't get past in everything they do. If we didnt we could all be anything we want. Recons example is correct. You can work on jumping higher but you'll eventually not be able to get higher. This also applies to video games. We see people on here talking about all the things they try to practice to get better and they never even get decent.
  • swift07's avatar
    swift07
    4 years ago

    @hayhorthere's always room for improvement, even pros improve. You can be anything you want, given that you put enough time into it, and you don't have a serious impairment.

  • hayhor's avatar
    hayhor
    Hero
    4 years ago
    @swift07 I believe people are born with traits that make them better than others at certain things. There's a whole nature vs nurture debate here.
  • swift07's avatar
    swift07
    4 years ago
    @hayhor that doesn't limit people. There's people who have put time into things that they are naturally not good at and have succeeded. We can go back and forth but my statement still stands, you can always improve.
  • reconzero's avatar
    reconzero
    Seasoned Ace
    4 years ago
    @swift07

    "how are you going to argue and say perceived, when lobbies are made up of different types of players and how they are played is different?"

    What I meant was that players may play pubs differently than ranked because they feel there is less at stake, but the game is the same, the rules are the same, the object of the game is the same. Unless you're making the argument that the goal of a ranked match isn't to win but to gain rp, which is true. Which, imo, makes ranked even more pointless than it already is, and a distortion of what the game should be about - which is winning. If Respawn had any balls then ranked would grant rp for winning and for absolutely nothing else. Sink or swim, scrubs.

    On the subject of improvement: I thought it was a good analogy but I guess I missed with that one. The way I'm reading your comment is that you're suggesting that until we all achieve 100% accuracy 100% of the time, then we can get better. Theoretically true, and yet completely unrealistic and frankly impossible. Did I misinterpret? Because if I didn't, then I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

    Lastly, either you mis-read the last two paragraphs, or again, I explained myself poorly. No matter.

    And don't think because I give a lot of push-back that I don't listen to what you say and appreciate the point of view. I do.
  • swift07's avatar
    swift07
    4 years ago

    @reconzeroI was telling Hayhor that people don't take pubs as serious as ranked and you replied that the "difference is perceived and not real". Misinterpretation from my part but a little bit confusing on your point. We all know the rules are the same but I am speaking on the topic of how people viewed pubs and the level of competition.

    There's always room for improvements and you mentioned gravitational field and how it can limit you. They are not the same. Improvements cannot be limited since we will never reach perfection. We will just keep improving as long as we make the effort, but we are not limited. My comment never states anything about reaching "100% accuracy 100% of the time". That would be humanly impossible anyways. This is what I said:
    "As for skills, people don't hit walls, they just get steeper hills to climb. Meaning that it will be harder for you to improve later in the game and you will not see drastic improvements but smaller ones. You will never stop improving. Once you believe that you have "hit a wall", you're mentally hurting your progression with content. Also, making a statement that you "hit a wall" seems a bit arrogant. If you've hit a wall, then why are you not a pro?"

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