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DoYaSeeMe's avatar
DoYaSeeMe
4 years ago

Re: It's impossible to play with this audio.

Apex is using the Miles Sound system,which is also used in over 7200 other games to this day, according to their website. The same site states this: "Designed for the game Apex Legends, we worked to handle an absurdly complex soundscape, with tens of thousands of audio sources and events required by a game of this complexity and polish!". 

What does this mean? First of all, a very complex system means that some bugs are very difficult, if not impossible to fix. Then, the issues of the sound engine and tools aren't handled by Respawn, but by the devs of Rad Game Tools, the owners of MSS. Respawn can only try to work around the known issues and limitations until RAD devs come up with patches. 

So, fixing audio will continue to be a very slow process. Some of the bugs will probably stay with Apex forever, regardless of how much cash or manpower is poured into the development. You have to get used to this reality.

22 Replies

  • Redmattgame's avatar
    Redmattgame
    4 years ago

    Looking up the 'Miles Sound System' on Wikipedia makes for very short but interesting reading.It is described as a software sound system that is used as an alternative for low-end chipsets which uses very little CPU usage providing adequate audio output.The dictionary meaning of adequate is satisfactory or acceptable (just okay, nothing special in other words).And whilst they claim over 7000 games use the 'Miles Sound System' when you look up these games some of stem back as early as 2002 with games like Tiger woods PGA2002 & 2003,Nascar 2002  etc as well as provide audio on a variety of games on last gen formats like the original Xbox,PS2 & PS3 & handhelds like the Vita,WiiU & 3DS.It certainly explains why the sound effects in Apex has always had that tinny like sound effect considering it's effectively using last-gen (or several gens ago) software.Using a software of adequate output that served a purpose for games on past gen formats & then expect it to cope on a game of Apex's complexities is like fine tuning (& adding a spoiler) to a vintage car that has a few hundred thousand miles on the clock & expect it to race against Lewis Hamilton on the next F1 race.

    In truth though when it comes to bugs & issues in Apex as history shows Respawn aren't very good at fixing them either they take an age to fix or even acknowledge them  or just claim they are fixed when they are not.

  • DoYaSeeMe's avatar
    DoYaSeeMe
    4 years ago
    @Redmattgame I disagree. Most software today is developed in iterations. MSS was created decades ago, but was constantly updated, new versions were released regularly. It's the same as with Windows, Photoshop, etc..

    Having over 7000 games using your software (it's actually over 24000, considering their other tools) equals tons of experience, which means it's very hard to get something better. Chances are high to make things much worse when switching to competitors. To make a similar analogy to yours, it's like creating a race car from scratch, with little experience and expect it to race against the best. Anyone doing this is very lucky if they manage to finish the race, with their prototype racecar still functional and without major damage.
  • Redmattgame's avatar
    Redmattgame
    4 years ago
    @DoYaSeeMe I have to disagree as you seem to suggest that there aren't better audio software available than a system described merely as 'adequate' or acceptable by definition or just because of the 'tons of experience' the software has renders any other sound system inferior.I accept with Apex being fundamentally a 'free game' we can't expect top-end & expensive sound systems or servers even but the game generates millions even tens of millions in revenue so is it too much to ask for much needed improvements on problematic issues like audio & servers in the game or are people like yourself merely content with things as the are & not need changing?.Ever since the first season audio issues have always been one of my main bugbears in the game & here we are in season 10 & still nothing has changed & many players are still complaining.
  • Redmattgame's avatar
    Redmattgame
    4 years ago
    @DoYaSeeMe To answer your question would be rather meaningless as I'm no software engineer or game developer but would involve a few google searches which should reveal a fair few systems & I'm not going to spend time looking them up & pretending I know them all.But if you generally believe that MSS is the best sound software for the game & you are content with the status quo then that's up to you.
  • DoYaSeeMe's avatar
    DoYaSeeMe
    4 years ago
    @Redmattgame A few Google searches won't do it, because there are tons of variables to be factored in. Some solutions provide a better environment for audio designers, while some offer a better flexibility, allowing programmers to customize and tune the implementation to their needs. Some work better than others with certain game engines, on specific platforms or for certain types of games, but be worse otherwise. Some have excellent, reliable support and documentation and are regularly updated, while others are difficult to approach until enough experience has been accumulated. Some can be easily integrated while others require a lot of tweaks to work. And last but not least, each of them has its own bugs. Where one doesn't trigger sounds, another one might crash or mess up the mix.
  • Redmattgame's avatar
    Redmattgame
    4 years ago
    @DoYaSeeMe But a few Google searches will show other games like Battlefield,Overwatch etc that may choose to operate on a bigger budget than Apex on sound quality & on what they may use instead.Just because 7000 (or 20000+ games you say) all use a cheap & chearful low-spec software but that number is still a relative drop in the ocean in the gaming world considering the software has been around since the late nineties.Will MSS still have credance in the next-gen era of PS5 & Xbox Series X/S over the next year or so? who knows.It does also beg the question as to why Apex is one of the last multiplayers to not have any next-gen upgrade or nothing remotely in the pipeline.

    I get it though you seem content with the current audio status quo in the game so why change things on you're part.And if the MSS software is the best around why has virtually nothing been done to improve audio issues in the 10 seasons of the game.Could it be nothing can be improved & this is as good as it gets (I hope not).As I mentioned previously audio issues in the game have always been one of the biggest issues many players have in the game & nothing has changed & tbh I don't think they ever will.


  • Redmattgame's avatar
    Redmattgame
    4 years ago
    @hayhor wrote:
    @RedmattgameLol you just gave the "I dont need to prove it, I just know" response. Good stuff!

    No I didn't,try reading a quote fully instead of reading an extract & jumping to ones own conclusions,I said I am not a software engineer or games developer & wasn't going to pretend I knew by just looking on Google for answers.

    Thanks for you're two bobs worth though Champ.

  • DoYaSeeMe's avatar
    DoYaSeeMe
    4 years ago
    @Redmattgame Not everything is about budget. Also, my disagreement doesn't mean I'm satisfied with the current situation. There's room for a lot of improvement but, as a dev myself, I know that these things take up a lot of time, it's not like buying a different set of headphones and be done with it. I'm trying to accept the current reality, which is forever a compromise and I lower my expectations to avoid disappointment, false hype / hope and vote with my wallet instead of wasting time telling others how to do their job or spend their money.
  • Redmattgame's avatar
    Redmattgame
    4 years ago

    I'll be honest & say as things are in the game i will most likely uninstall Apex on all my consoles (PS5,PS4 & Xbox One) in the next week or two & will never play the game again as I don't believe anything will change, nothing will fundamentally improve & unresolved issues will remain unresolved.What was probably the best online multiplayer game several seasons ago is merely just another game now.Time has shown Respawn devs have only responded to issues in the game when pro players & youtubers complain about it enough on social media but everyone else gets ignored.Trello/Apextracker has often shown that regarding problems in the game more 'investigations' are made than at the FBI (but with fewer results). No resolutions just investigations & too many false promises have lowered my game expectations lower than a seal's arse.The only thing I'll miss about the game are Revenant's quips.

  • Eshshshss's avatar
    Eshshshss
    Seasoned Ace
    4 years ago
    @Redmattgame dude do you know any perfect FPS game? I don't :D

    Same thing has been happening for decades. Only difference back in the days you paid a bit for a meh game and played it till Quake came out for free.
    Now Apex and others just do the same + microtransactions to earn billions faster and focus their attention to skins and badges to feed brainless people like you see here upvoting topics related to badges, stats, skins etc...

    That's just the evolution of FPS players 🙂 developers just do what people are buying 😉
  • devel_origin's avatar
    devel_origin
    4 years ago
    @Eshshshss wrote:
    @Redmattgamedude do you know any perfect FPS game? I don't :D

    But I know an FPS game with the perfect "competitive sound" implementation: it's Natural Selection 2.

    In that game by sound you know where is the enemy, how many, what are they, what are they doing or what direction are they going.

  • Eshshshss's avatar
    Eshshshss
    Seasoned Ace
    4 years ago
    @devel_origin sure, then why you are here complaining but not playing perfect game :D

    Each game always have had and will have their pros, * and people preferences.

    Some teams in development will have better skills, access to visuals, some to audio, some to code efficiency aspects of the game. But so far there is no perfect game.

    Plus as said before this is part of the competition - rules are the same, game is the same as long as it is broken in the same way for everyone it should still be competitive = in this case who can shoot enemy better with imperfect sound.

    p.s. I played Quake 3 insta gib mode with Noghost = you not only could but had to pre-aim enemies based on the sound and you could do that easily. Basically gameplay looked like you are wall-hacking all the time. Audio was good, gameplay was even faster phase than Apex. Maps were great in my opionion... yet the community died, because people grew up, new players were more inclided to flashy badges, stats and more nicer graphics that were not present in Quake => game died more or less. No perfect game 🙂
  • devel_origin's avatar
    devel_origin
    4 years ago
    @Eshshshss wrote:
    @devel_originsure, then why you are here complaining but not playing perfect game :D

    I wrote "a perfect sound", not a "perfect game".

    And I don't play Apex, just looking around what people say so maybe I'll play later.

  • Redmattgame's avatar
    Redmattgame
    4 years ago
    @Eshshshss wrote:
    @Redmattgamedude do you know any perfect FPS game? I don't :D

    Same thing has been happening for decades. Only difference back in the days you paid a bit for a meh game and played it till Quake came out for free.
    Now Apex and others just do the same + microtransactions to earn billions faster and focus their attention to skins and badges to feed brainless people like you see here upvoting topics related to badges, stats, skins etc...

    That's just the evolution of FPS players 🙂 developers just do what people are buying 😉

    As a gamer for over 30 years who has had pretty much every console through the generations since the original NES in the late 80's in all that time with hand-on-heart I don't believe there has ever been the perfect 10/10 rated game or ever will be .Perfection would mean without fault & no game is faultless no matter how good they are.And whilst many of my favourite games are pretty close like; Zelda;Ocarina of Time,Mario Kart,Goldeneye,GTA San Andres,Half-Life,Resident Evil etc (to name a few) they do have their faults.

    As for the perfect FPS (3rd person included) or rather my favourite ones is tricky because most of them are primarily single/solo player games like the Wolfenstein remakes, Doom, Half-Life,Bioshock,Far Cry,Borderlands,COD Modern Warfare etc.But in reality would any of these games have the ability to transcend over into multiplayer with the same impact I kind of doubt it.As for my favourite multiplayers it would be;Overwatch,Titanfall,Apex (seasons 2-5) etc.

    As you have rightly commented game devs on games like Apex,Fortnite etc just seem more focused on the micro-transactions of skins & various cosmetics than with the game  fundamentals which is a shame.

  • SILVERisSORRY's avatar
    SILVERisSORRY
    4 years ago
    @Redmattgame Yeah, sadly because it’s a Free2Play game, whatever keeps revenue coming in takes priority. Without money coming in, they wouldn’t be able to provide updates/fixes, or release new characters/seasons.
  • Redmattgame's avatar
    Redmattgame
    4 years ago

    @SILVERisSORRYAgree but as for the cost for some of these cosmetics (across all these microtransaction infested games) the saying 'daylight robbery' comes to mind.'A fool & their money are easily parted' is another.

  • Eshshshss's avatar
    Eshshshss
    Seasoned Ace
    4 years ago
    @Redmattgame based on the official figures as well as many people who spend their money on Apex it is clear - this community mainly consists of people like that (ones who take nicer skins over better audio) vs. actually competitive gamers (who in my opinion here are usually called toxic, because you dare to comment on how the skin people bought is standing out on the map-making them easy target or provide any other constructive feedback. How dare you, you don't even have a battle pass or 4k / 20 bomb badge you peasant! :D )
  • Redmattgame's avatar
    Redmattgame
    4 years ago
    @Eshshshss Well said & it's the toxicity of players that only has me now using a headset with gamer friends but using a headset whilst playing with strangers is a no-no for me.I've always been a confrontational type person & it's always been one of my main flaws unfortunately so using them is like waving a red rag to a bull at times when baited. I'll talk the talk & I'll walk the walk but I'm not a young whipper-snapper anymore & have to keep reminding myself of that & I should just be content with a quiet life instead of offering to travel halfway round the world to sort out some nobody who wants to insult my mum or another family member (it's happened a few times in the past) because I'm unable to heal them at the present time in the game which is stupid I know but more often than not I've often risen to the bait (& probably made myself look an idiot in the process)

    They say that social media is a sewer that attracts the worst in people but online gaming is the same unfortunately.Besides for all the faults with Apex it does have the best ping system where a headset isn't really needed.

    (I'm off to my quiet room now for some Tai-Chi & meditation for some calm).
  • Dr_X-File's avatar
    Dr_X-File
    4 years ago

    The sound in this game is a bad joke.  I made a thread about how the "sound guy" at respawn should be fired for this mind bogglingly bad audio in this game, and i got threatened with a ban from EA.

    I guess they are too busy thinking up new social justice antifa badges for their virtue signaling when they should be fixing these long standing issues.

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