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NickBeam27's avatar
NickBeam27
3 years ago

Re: Nuances and attack formation.

@reconzero I always badly want to believe it is a team based game....and although with the odd few, it can be.... it usually isn't.
Too many warriors out there not interested in being a team, the ones gunning for straight damage and kills, run forward and never look back - "what teammates?"
I personally play the same style as you...positioning over everything else. Like you, I have won games alone just on the direction I chose to move, and strategy I chose along the way. Knowing when to pull out (gigiddy) and knowing when to push.
Unfortunately know matter how many times you try and explain this to your random teammates....sometimes they just have to learn the hard way. Over and over and over again.
Swift - However, when the odd match comes when you get similar minded random teammates and you move and communicate and play like a team...it is a beautiful thing without doubt! I would prefer that over the ladder.

11 Replies

  • swift07's avatar
    swift07
    3 years ago
    @NickBeam27 even if others don't do it, I want to set an example. I will help them out if they get knocked, try to revive them or try to recover their banner. It's honestly boring if I'm the only one alive and I usually just leave if that's the case. I love team games and team dynamics, and at the core of this game, it is a team game.
  • reconzero's avatar
    reconzero
    Seasoned Ace
    3 years ago

    @NickBeam27

    I think at a fundamental level I'm just too independent-minded to be able to function as a good teammate. I refuse to surrender my judgment (which is 95% accurate at keeping me alive) to anyone else, no matter how tragic or spectacular their banner says they are. If it's a scrub banner then they don't know what they're doing, and if it's a predator banner then they most definitely don't know what I'm doing, and they never make any effort to tone down their aggressive tactics for their less-skilled or less-aggressive teammates. Honestly, a solo masters is just as worthless as a solo bronze, especially in pubs where their ranked mindset says "Nothing that happens here matters."

  • swift07's avatar
    swift07
    3 years ago

    @reconzeroso what do you do when you go off by yourself? Also, when a full team spots you? Do you just constantly run? Not sure what lobbies you're playing but usually that's a losing situation or not a very comfortable one. I personally don't like to hot drop but I do it anyways and most of the time it's bad, but sometimes it ends up being a really good game. There's also things you can learn from it as well.

    Also, if you play ranked, sometimes it's fun hot dropping in pubs because you have nothing to lose. So I don't mind sometimes if my randoms want to drop hot. I get annoyed when it's 10+ games straight tho, and if my teammates are noobs.  

  • heme725's avatar
    heme725
    3 years ago

    @reconzero I feel your frustration but unfortunately I'm the opposite of you. I can only play the game with a team first mindset.

    -Too often I'll see one teammate push a fight while our third has no gun or is way out of position.

    -Too often I'll see one teammate lagging behind so I drop back to protect him from the ambush I know is coming. Our third in this situation? He's safe so what does he care.

    -Teammates pushing a full squad on the high ground? Well lets all die together then.

    I hate it but it isn't in me to break away from the squad. Honestly lower level teammates are more reliable. They have less skill and make questionable moves but they'll at least listen to instructions and play as a better team. Experienced players have seen their games tanked by bad teammates too often to listen to anyone but themselves. It's understandable but frustrating.

  • reconzero's avatar
    reconzero
    Seasoned Ace
    3 years ago

    @swift07

    When I'm soloing, I'm learning how to move without being seen and learning how to position to stay out of trouble and/or give the most advantage should I have to start shooting. Mostly I'm hoping my teammates manage to stay alive long enough for the circle to push us back together. Sometimes that happens. Sometimes (though not often) I win alone. Sometimes, after they're dead, I quit. And sometimes, yes, I get caught and killed. Sounds crazy, I know, but the win rate is where I want it to be so I trust the process.

    "sometimes it's fun hot dropping in pubs because you have nothing to lose."

    I hate that ranked gameplay gives anyone this mindset. You have your life to lose. And the match. Ranked, unranked, the game is the same.

    @heme725

    "They [lower level teammates] have less skill and make questionable moves but they'll at least listen to instructions and play as a better team."

    This has not been my experience. Hence no more mic. Hence no more hot drops with inexperienced players. Hence I treat teammates as if they're the enemy. Because they are almost always trying to get me killed as sure as if this game had friendly fire.

    And it isn't that I'm frustrated about the situation. Players have different levels of experience, and radically different playstyles. I can allow it. I just can't ride shotgun on a suicide mission. And that's what it turns out to be about 80% of the time. You can tell mostly from the banners, and completely from the drops they chose.

  • swift07's avatar
    swift07
    3 years ago
    @reconzero I honestly value improving skills the most, which means...I need to fight more people and learn how to fight in many different situations. Also, being a good team player is also a valuable skill, since this is a team game. For me, win rate, KD, damage...etc. are less important.

    When you die in pubs, you don't lose points like ranked. You just die and you can start a new game. And like I said, I am not focused on stats.
  • swift07's avatar
    swift07
    3 years ago
    @heme725 that is exactly how I play. I'm always looking at both teammates to make sure they are good. If teammate is running for cover, I will give them some cover fire. If a teammate is being revived, I will light up whoever tries to push. If a teammate is down, I will do my best to revive. Without a team, I have nothing. Who will I celebrate the win with? Who will I crouch spam and punch at the end of the game? It's not fun doing it by myself.
  • reconzero's avatar
    reconzero
    Seasoned Ace
    3 years ago
    @swift07

    I agree that teamwork is a valuable skill - but I also believe that it's one of the hardest to practice for all the above noted reasons. Unless you play with the same people every day then there just isn't any significant return on investment for trying to be a good team player.

    Improving skills is a brick wall. It's a law-of-diminishing-returns thing. There is only so much improvement that a player can reasonably expect given so many different limiting factors - time and fundamental mechanical skills being only the two biggest. And I also discovered long ago that improving at a game with skill-based matchmaking does not yield the kind of results that I want to experience as I get better at the game. If I can be average to slightly below average and have a 10% win rate then I'll take that over slightly above average with grindy, miserable matches that get me low platinum and 3% win rate. I just don't care how good I am compared to everyone else. I care that, given the constraints of sbmm, I can fool the lobby into winning more than the statistical average of 5%. And that's not even getting into the issues that arise when you make the investment in improving but are convinced, as so many forum-goers are, that the game conspires to screw you, that cheaters conspire to screw you, that anti-recoil is real, that aimbots are real, that strike packs and Cronus Zens are around every corner. It's just one headache after another that adds to the grind without adding to the fun. Oh, and do we even want to have the discussion of the role that luck plays in this game? Spoiler: it's big.

    "When you die in pubs, you don't lose points like ranked. You just die and you can start a new game."

    Pretty sure you can start a new game in ranked too, whether you lost points or gained them. Now if you're going to try to convince me that losing points in ranked is bad or matters or makes you less manly or some other ego-driven insanity then by all means type away. I promise I'll read every word.
  • swift07's avatar
    swift07
    3 years ago
    @reconzero well, it seems like you play a decent amount of solo q matches. If you want to work on your personal skills and be ready for whatever happens, then you have to get into the fire. Running away and repositioning, or landing somewhere else, instead of trying to work together or help your teammates, will leave you by yourself majority of the time. Playing as a team with randoms, makes you more versatile in different scenarios.

    If MM, cheaters, and RNG bother you that much, how do you continue playing this game?

    "When you die in pubs, you don't lose points like ranked. You just die and you can start a new game." Do you not understand why I said this? People do care about RP in ranked, otherwise, what's the point of playing? It's one of things people tie to progression, which is what we strive to do while playing games.
  • reconzero's avatar
    reconzero
    Seasoned Ace
    3 years ago
    @swift07

    "If MM, cheaters, and RNG bother you that much, how do you continue playing this game?"

    I didn't say they bother me. I said that they would bother me if I was the kind of player who believed in "striving" for rank or was the kind of player who put any stock in what it is ranking systems purport to tell you about yourself.

    "Do you not understand why I said this? People do care about RP in ranked, otherwise, what's the point of playing? It's one of things people tie to progression, which is what we strive to do while playing games."

    Yes, I understand that this is a thing. No, I don't understand WHY it is a thing. It isn't what I'm trying to do when I play the game, and from what I've experienced over the years in this game and a few others, it's more a source of existential anxiety than a source of entertainment. Which is, last time I checked, what a game is supposed to provide. I know that different people are entertained by different aspects of the game, but I sometimes get the impression that RP and rank chasing IS the game for many people. Like when I read things like: "People do care about RP in ranked, otherwise, what's the point of playing?" I can think of lots of other reasons for playing a game. Oh so many other reasons. In fact, for me rank ladders are purely a negative. They have no value for me personally, but beyond that I see people motivated by them to do things which seem unconstructive at times, and which they themselves often admit are not fun. So yes, I see that for some people ranks have value, but I'm surprised at how vigorously they will defend them in one breath and condemn them in the next.
  • swift07's avatar
    swift07
    3 years ago
    @reconzero "People do care about RP in ranked, otherwise, what's the point of playing?" It's specifically talking about ranked, not other modes in the game. This was a reply to when you said you could die and just start another game in ranked.

    A reminder, this conversation started when I said that people hot drop because there's nothing to lose in pubs. Meaning, they won't lose RP like ranked. I get that you have an opinion about why you don't like ranked but I'm telling you that's why people do it.

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