Smurfing and SBMM are beyond a joke
Adding the option to report smurfing is a step in the right direction but it’s not enough, and half the time it doesn’t let you anyway! I’m not sure if this is because people just set themselves to o...
Forum Discussion
@Axs5626Sxa5001
The problem is, without a functioning SBMM, a pred, a master or a very good player will "wreck havoc" in any lobby, except for lobbies in which there are other preds master or very good players to contend with.
I believe SBMM to be necessary, but it has to work. A pred should never be placed in a "bronze level" lobby, being that in pubs or ranked --which is currently what happens (MM pairs the pred with 2 weak players in an attempt to nerf him/her). Sure, lobbies are going to be, respectively to any level of skill, more challenging and require some efforts. This is what, IMO, has to be expected from a pvp focused game.
A pred should have a maximum match bracket to be between Diamond and Master. Weaker players should never see a pred, and a pred should never see a bronze, silver, gold, and plat.
I have a .7 (point 7) k/d, yet I get the following (picture) players in the lobbies often enough to be annoying.
This happens because it is not skill based, it is "performance" based matchmaking. It is all artificial and is very relative. The problem is that when the algorithm adjusts, IMO, the jump is out of the sensible. It does what you see below.
That is why a match seems easy, and the next 5 or more are insta wipes. The jump is not incremental and conservative, is bold and reckless. I am not sure why that happens, it could be that there are not enough players left to offer a softer increase in difficulty after winning a match, or doing whatever the algorithm thinks supports a player being placed in a higher skill match... (top skill?)
@Vdstrk
I’m not sold on the “master pred will wreck havoc” on a lobby that’s compromised of all skill levels. Perhaps they have a much higher chance of winning, but it’s not guaranteed. And honestly— no disrespect, skilled players beating lesser skilled players (in a non-ranked setting) isn’t a controversial idea; skilled players should ABSOLUTELY be winning matches more frequently than lesser skilled players.
If you oppose that idea, then that likely means that you support the “everyone should be winning at similar rates” idea— as mentioned earlier, this idea is “forced equal outcomes” and is a ridiculous idea for a pvp activity.
Personally, I think the game ran fine during seasons 1-3. SBMM existed but it wasn’t as strict as it is now. Back then, weaker players won less frequently, average players won at their own consistency, and the skilled players won more frequently. But to appease the desires of weaker players (“I want to win more than I do now”), they increased the SBMM.
I’m all for creating safe spaces for new players— they need an environment where they can learn. But after a certain experience level you should be exposed to opponents of all skill levels (in non-ranked modes). Skill shouldn’t “mean less” simply because weaker players want to win as much as people who practice more than them. I definitely appreciate your previous input though.
I’m not sold on the “master pred will wreck havoc” on a lobby that’s compromised of all skill levels. Perhaps they have a much higher chance of winning, but it’s not guaranteed. And honestly— no disrespect, skilled players beating lesser skilled players (in a non-ranked setting) isn’t a controversial idea; skilled players should ABSOLUTELY be winning matches more frequently than lesser skilled players.
If you oppose that idea, then that likely means that you support the “everyone should be winning at similar rates” idea— as mentioned earlier, this idea is “forced equal outcomes” and is a ridiculous idea for a pvp activity.
Personally, I think the game ran fine during seasons 1-3. SBMM existed but it wasn’t as strict as it is now. Back then, weaker players won less frequently, average players won at their own consistency, and the skilled players won more frequently. But to appease the desires of weaker players (“I want to win more than I do now”), they increased the SBMM.
I’m all for creating safe spaces for new players— they need an environment where they can learn. But after a certain experience level you should be exposed to opponents of all skill levels (in non-ranked modes). Skill shouldn’t “mean less” simply because weaker players want to win as much as people who practice more than them. I definitely appreciate your previous input though.
@Axs5626Sxa5001
I am against allowing very skilled players to march on very low skilled players like the situation above. As i said, I have a .7 k/d. The player in the picture above played several ALGS competitions (besides they were 3 stacking, I only play soloq).
I am fine with SBMM making and I definitely support a lower win rate, as long as SBMM works appropriately. Better players should ONLY square it off with better players (I believe that a pred team winning against a bronze lobby has achieved no real victory)]As an analogy, why in any sports, a no name team cannot play against the top of the top? Say a no name team will not be allowed to play against the Dallas Cowboys? IMO is because there is nothing to gain for anyone in that situation. It will be a pointless running simulation in which the Dallas Cowboys will literally bully the no name team. Not even in training that will happen.
Here it should be the same.
I do not really understand why it is so bad for stronger players to fight stronger players only.
I have a great idea that would eliminate both the casuals complaining that sbmm is not protecting them enough and tryhards seemingly only ever getting to fight other wannabe pros. How about make it completely random. What a crazy idea right. Random matches of random player levels to match a game that already gives you loot and weapons based on randomness and luck. I know it's genius. I mean I guess let there be a Noob lobby for the first 20-50 levels, and then after that let them go grow up.
@SHIZNICKMASTA
That would only make it so a random pred team will "always" dominate the match, unless another pred team is contending it.
The damage that situation creates is all a disadvantage for the less skilled players. SBMM is a way also to protect new players --when it works properly.
- @Vdstrk
Let’s go with the sports analogy (even though the sports analogy doesn’t truly represent what’s happening here):
Pubs should be a casual place. Ranked should be the “tournament” or “more competitive” place.
Let’s equate non-ranked to the regular season of a sports league. Every team plays everyone (in most leagues). Some teams play every team multiple times. Even the STRONGEST team in the league play the weakest team. The Browns don’t get to say “oh come on, why do we have to play the Patriots?!? They are undefeated and we haven’t won a game yet!” Everyone plays everyone because that produces records.
Let’s look at records now in Apex. I’m a masters player. After I achieve Masters I hit a brick wall and start losing all my matches in ranked. So I switch to pubs, where 60%-80% of my opponents are Masters/Preds; I play the exact same players I’m seeing in Masters ranked lobbies. I try my best but I still have little success. I play way more pubs than ranked. What’s my win rate?
1.2%
That’s LOWER than most of my friends who play daily but aren’t very good. I DEFINITELY don’t want to sound mean, but average players should NOT be having better experiences and better results (records) than skilled players (by virtue of the latter group only playing the best players in the world).@Axs5626Sxa5001
The league you are referring to is composed of the first n (20?) teams. That is like saying that the first 20 teams on Apex's leaderboards will have a tournament every Sunday -for the duration of a season to see who is the more consistent team of all qualified to participate. And in that case every team will fight every other team.
However, the Dallas Cowboys will never be matched against my amateur team, because it would be violating ANY criteria of a fair match.
In the same way, you as a master will be placed against adversaries of similar skills, which include Diamonds at times, and Preds, as preds are the firts 750 in the masters rank.
If matchmaking were working that way (like you claim it works for masters) also at lower skill levels, it would be fantastic. It is not. I get preds/masters and diamonds, despite having a .7 k/d and a 1.6% win rate.
Look, my win rate is 1.62% this season so far. It went from 3.8% past season to half of it, or less. By the way, I am only a gold 3.....and cannot make it past it....Why should I (and others like me) be punished, and be made to play against opponents we cannot defeat?
Is it possible that your friends have more Ws because they play more than you do?
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