3 years ago

Twitch Metrics

I don't personally believe Twitch metrics are the end all, be all of a game's popularity or worth. But from the game companies themselves, including Activision and EA, I know they look at those metrics as a large indicator. So do many people. A game company might know better than the metrics about its own games, but wouldn't know about a competitor's, and they all know a lot of people do use these stats for good, or mistakenly, or whatever.

And you know how stats are...you can make up all sort of things about them, draw good or bad conclusions, and you definitely can conjure up any excuse you want to justify the way they look or argue against a point.

HAVING SAID THAT

Apex Legends has done a hard decline in games watched metrics over the past 30 ish days. Here's Sullygnome data: https://sullygnome.com/games/30/watched But use whatever data you want. I think its hard to argue that a decline in ranked popularity would make a lot of sense to people becoming disinterested in watching streamers play games. The 'bad' players that some of these pro/streamers argue against are the same people who would watch their feeds or games or what have you.

I'm sure those who are fans of the ranked system are going to fight against this point, and frankly that's fine, because this isn't science here. And a 30 day trend does not make a forever statement. But I've seen it before, peaks, and games like Overwatch which people swore would do no wrong, and people who were critical were oh so going to be proved not to be accurate, go down in flames. I would say regardless of how you feel, though, you wouldn't want to see a decline in Twitch viewership as beneficial, not compared to a sustained increase in twitch viewership. Even if you were a fan of the ranked system, I have to think you'd believe this declining trend would not continue, not if you want the popularity of Apex Legends to continue.

discussion

12 Replies

pandareno1999
Hero+
3 years ago
Hey man, interesting post. Just a quick comment or two, as I've just gotten up, plus I'm not really all that into presenting some big argument here. My first thought is that, in order top present something meaningful, we would definitely have to look at longer trends rather than just examining one month of data. There's a simple reason for the large decline this month. ALGS LAN ran from April 29 to May 1. This easily accounts for the decline over the previous month.
hayhor
Hero
3 years ago
@pandareno1999Look at the last 2 weeks which won't include the LAN data. -28.5% which is more than the 30 day drop.
The new ranked experience is boring to play AND watch. I'm watching Apex a lot less than I used to.
I bet if we look 2 weeks from now it's gone up tho......as we have an event incoming.
DarthValtrex
Hero (Retired)
3 years ago
@KelRiever THis is just my opinion but I think we will see some adjustments to the RP system.

I like what the devs are attempting to do with the RP system. I think this current system just goes a bit to far. Some place in the middle between the old RP system and this RP system will be perfect.
Cheese9Man
3 years ago
As what I’ve said in the no masters thread, this is the lowest number of players since March of 2021 probably because of the reasons that you have mentioned. On the other hand, I can see an increase in viewership in twitch by the collection event on June 21 and the first week of July because of the ALGS. Curious though if an increase in viewership, we would also see an increase in player numbers. The game is terribly boring right now.
Great job on the post as always as it brings a different perspective on things.
Asmodeus566
Hero+
3 years ago
@DarthValtrex wrote:
@KelRieverTHis is just my opinion but I think we will see some adjustments to the RP system.

I like what the devs are attempting to do with the RP system. I think this current system just goes a bit to far. Some place in the middle between the old RP system and this RP system will be perfect.
@DarthValtrex
Spot on statement and what I have been stating and advocating since about two weeks into the new Ranked system. Right direction but way to heavy handed in its implementation.
KelRiever
3 years ago
I think its the twitch metrics combined with other things (like the Cheeseman thread which points to the Steam metrics on lower game participation) that makes the case.
Not sure, though it could be, that reducing the RP penalty will correct things. I mean, it's for sure going to help. But I still have to believe the problems are at the core of this game, and that you don't have enough reward for solo players to work together. Even if you reduce the RP debt, you can have one bad player screw your whole team up on a regular basis, with a hot drop, or ignoring whatever the other two people are doing or whatever.
Somewhere else I had started to speculate on what could fix that problem, because even if you fixed ranked play, you aren't fixing the overall game. Of course, most answers I had were pretty heavy handed, like tethering your team to each other so you couldn't restore shields or health unless you were within some certain range of at least 1 other team mate. It won't help hot drops if 2 of your mates want to get themselves killed, but it would help when the 1 lone ranger goes and decides he's way more important than the other 2 of you. The reverse could be something that's not a penalty but a reward, like slow health and/or shield regen if you are within a certain range of another team mate. Like 50 m, so it's not onerous.
Those problems can be speculated on in another thread. The point of this one was more like I think the signs are showing that changes need to happen, and sooner would be better.
hayhor
Hero
3 years ago
@KelRiever A small tweak to ranked won't fix this. Only a full reversal will do it. I said it right away: You cannot let people have a much easier, enjoyable experience for 3 years and suddenly make major changes that result in the difficulty level being cranked to max. It's a video game. 99.9% of the people playing want to feel good when they play.
Asmodeus566
Hero+
3 years ago
@hayhor
I fully agree with you.
EA/Respawn need to wake up on their new changes because they have to remember this is a game and what is their goal in making a game: Of course that is to make money but in order to do that, people must enjoy the game and have the feel that they can progress while having fun.
Currently Ranked is way to much of a grind, to much like ALGS play and not that fun because the balance of the new system is way off.
In silver4, 9th place and two KP = 30 RP -27 entry = 3RP gained.
In Gold4 9th place and two KP= 30 RP -39entry = -9RP loss. Hell 10th place with 5 KP is only going to give you a gain of 21 RP(G4) 18 (G3) 15 (G2) and 12 (G1), which sounds like a decent game but at that rate one would need over 133 games just to get to plat
in Plat4 9th place and two KP= 30RP -51entry = -21RP loss. one would have to consistently get at least 7-8th place and at least 3KP for a net gain of 5RP.
And before anyone says it one could gain RP in any of these ranks with enough KP, like 10 or so and placing 10th but who gets 10 KP per game on avg?
Ranked is now just Grind, Grind, Grind, double the time needed to rank up half what was before for no new or additional reward.
The Split will just add insult to injury.
Played some ranked last night and that was it, I am done with it for now. I will now join the ranks of those playing Trios, Duos, Arena's or awaiting the return of Control.
KelRiever
3 years ago
Numbers keep getting worse. It's still a short time thing but I don't think their mouse steps back have helped turn them around. Again, we shall see.
Cheese9Man
3 years ago
@KelRieverJust saw a twitch streamer tweet that everyone’s (Apex streamers) numbers are still down even after the collection event started.

Looked at steam charts and it did increase a little but did not go back to its usual numbers. Now I’m having doubts if the ALGS would even help their numbers. It’s just a few weeks from now and I don’t see any ads for the event.

Not looking good for Apex/Respawn/EA. Checked my account and I only played 350 games this season too.