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lcymn54q20fr's avatar
lcymn54q20fr
Rising Novice
1 month ago

Unpopular Opinion

If someone is new to Apex and learning basic fight skills such as aim, movement, position or any other factor i left out I hear all the time "PUSH AS MANY FIGHTS AS YOU CAN". HisWattson made a video and this is big statement from me because the guy knows 10000x more about apex than I do but he's wrong in this instance and let me explain why. 

First off let me state you won't ever be in pred lobbies unless you play all the time, use comms, and have a premade team and no i'm not talking about established pros im talking about your regular casual player. With that said stop pushing every fight to learn your mechanics. Yes if you have a good equal fight or you can third party someone of course push every time. But pushing a bad fight when lets say you have been in the game for 5+ minutes already isn't time efficient to improve your mechanics. Losing the bad fight (which you will most of the time) puts you back in the lobby and you get to start all over again. The reason why this is important is.. no matter how good you get in ranked you will assuming you have common sense NEVER push bad fights. EVER. Learning this game by pushing bad fights is the opposite of what you want to do. Find a friend go into the firing range and 1v1 each other.  

6 Replies

  • I have been the player that did pretty much what you suggested - always tried to play smart vs aggressive.

    What I have concluded just this year (more than 10k hours in FPS games combined):

    • my decision making on BIG picture is at a good level, I can easily come up with a plan e.g. rotations in Apex from the drop and like 2-3 rings ahead
    • my comms are at a good/very good level, I don't shy away from them for sure
    • my skill to contain / control a fight are at a good level = I can easily do 3v3 in Apex have plan A and B if things go wrong and in most cases not die

    • my decision making speed during intense situations I would say is at best average, I can't just lock in and say kill 3 people in a row or shoot at the main team then successfully switch to surprise 3rd party etc.
    • my mechanics under tension become much worse typically I see that in scenarios in aim training where I know I am good at it I will do 95% accuracy with good score easily vs in challenging cases I would fall far below my average placement vs overall leaderboard. Same in game - when plan falls apart I would do sub par.
    • in a sense my confidence is rather low/medium in terms of winning 1v1 / fight in my elo lobbies because I know by now my shortcomings stated above

    Long story short it kinda been in FPS games for DECADES that people should start ASAP with shooting, getting uncomfortable as often as possible in that way utilizing time in game for what it is about = mechanics, fighting vs. looting / inventory management which is important yet not crucial (think about how many times people day with inventory full of stuff, abilities left unused etc.).

    And the big picture of this approach I guess is that you have to just do that until you find yourself at a level that no matter the situation you don't panic (you might miss some shots, make some wrong calls / decisions) but you always remain calm.
    And only then you go for rank grind say and add the layer of tactics because eventually you will not be able to just brute-force players and combination of outsmarting and outshooting will be needed (but that happens in Apex I would say in Masters lobbies ... not at this matchmaking state that ensure it happens never for Preds / Masters) = level which 95% of ranked players will never reach.

    Thus in below Diamond and soloq you see things like:

    1. people having really bad mechanic because they have not enough experience actually fighting in game
    2. people running for their lives vs holding together as a team because they have little confidence in themselves, teammates and adding to that inability / inexperience of teamworking and this false sense of "I am better of running away and respawning so we can repeat it all over again vs putting up a fight and potentially bully enemy team back / win them"
    3. people having 0 or close to that game sense, just recently a dude posted in forums about returning heat-shields because he was dying to the zone too often = lack of awareness and inability to rotate
    4. people approaching ranked with too much confidence = training above said skillset in actual ranked which is probably not the best environment and can be compared like doing your training at sports championships not prior to them

    p.s. 1v1 is good, you can learn a lot form doing that if you practice certain things at the same time Apex in most cases is about fight / space management, teamworking = no matter how good you are in 1v1 e.g. if enemy team is better in coordination they will focus you, each hitting 2-3 bullets and you will be knocked instantly and will have no chance to do anything about it most of the time. So besides 1v1 you must train almost 1v2, 3v3 etc.

  • All streamers say the same thing: push everything, that's how you git gud. And I will back your unpopular opinion by saying also that they are wrong. They might be right for a very specific kind of player - a player like themselves who is already preternaturally good at shooters in general and who is on a one-way grind to predator. But that's less than 1% of players. Normal people like us? The cynic in me says that streamers say "drop hot always and push fights to learn" in order to have idiots to shoot at when they're mowing down silver lobbies on their latest secondary.

    But whoever learned anything by smashing their head against a brick wall? No, gun mechanics are not the first thing to learn in battle royale, and when it IS time to learn them then you find a way that doesn't involve just giving over thousands of free kills to streamers, pros, and cheaters. And yes, I'm lumping all three in as one, not making a list.

    The problem, of course, with "never push a bad fight - ever" is that most new players couldn't tell a good fight from a bad one. Heck, most normal, average, EXPERIENCED players struggle with this. I may not be able to hit the broad side of a barn with an automatic in this game, but I know EXACTLY where to drop, when to move, where to go, how to get there unmolested, AND when to avoid a fight and when to take one. If only gun mechanics were as easy as everything else. If only most normal players understood that this game is a lot more than just gun mechanics.

  • e1b2b41da38ee689's avatar
    e1b2b41da38ee689
    Seasoned Ace
    1 month ago

    The major difference pros/streamers vs regular people:

    1. streamers and more so pros can actually do 1v3 2v3 for sure in most cases vs regular people, they are just that better than even higher ranked players brain and mechanics and experience wise
    2. matchmaking in current state for seasons now have put in the same lobby people that are too different skill level = if you are not top squad or there about you can't push fights as people will be just that much better and destroy you. Pushing might have worked a 10 seasons ago but now not really unless you have tracker or something that tells you what is your lobby and you can assume fast which team is better than you or which is worse and is pushable
    3. Pushing involves teamwork which is possible only in 3stack, pushing with randoms is a coinflip - they might do too few damage, they might back out without saying anything, they might and probably will heal as soon as they take damage vs holding pressure etc.

     

    So people with brain should not follow streamers or even pros (actively) - game for us is totally different than game for them.

    And then you on your own have to figure out why you die the most/on regular basis - poor rotation, too much risk taking, not playing with a team, poor mechanics => improve the worst ASAP, repeat the process.

    e.g. for me I can outsmart very highly ranked players (ones that do not use radars / wallhacks) and can read the game very well so for me in Diamond+ lobbies my weakness (which still is ways above say gold player) is mechanics -> so I aimtrain basically exclusively vs looking at meta, rotations or some strategies from pros.

    p.s. still if you don't have 3stack your life will be miserable in this or basically atm any other game - 3 games into Deadlock: first hacker, 0 teamwork from 5 other players, just W and farm damage. Gaming community is just sad besides that part that has active teams because people play team games 1:1 as they do single player games...not sure why they do come online AND in competitive game scene.

  • On the one hand, there's some truth to this, but...

    I've noticed how poorly SBMM works in this game, using pubs as an example.

    In the same lobby, matchmaking placing people who are desperately trying to get a good spot by avoiding fights. This lands them in very sweaty lobbies (often high-ranked, but with low damage and few kills).

    And then I hit a wall, because ultimately, these people are unable to engage with other people (too much skill difference).

    So if you're constantly avoiding fights, but you get a good spot or somehow win, Apex thinks you're good enough to play with the masters. Is that good? It depends on what you like.

    Of course, we all know that SBMM is completely broken in Apex. In one lobby, I can have people with three pred badges on their banner, and then I'll meet someone who plays like a typical bronze.

  • reconzero's avatar
    reconzero
    Seasoned Ace
    30 days ago

    Very good observations. The problem with "skill-based matchmaking" in a battle royale game is that battle royale involves so many different skill sets, but the game is assessing skill with just a handful of basic metrics that it thinks tell the whole story. When, sadly, they don't even come close. That's not the only way people end up in the wrong lobbies, but it's a big part of it. And what Respawn doesn't mess up with their grossly over-simplified skill assessment, other players will ruin with their secondaries. We're all doomed.

  • e1b2b41da38ee689's avatar
    e1b2b41da38ee689
    Seasoned Ace
    25 days ago

    We can discuss endlessly about SBMM or EBMM or how those systems work - we will never know, that is like most guarded secret in the industry :)

    What matters for me as a player when we talk about SBMM = goal is not to just casually play but have some challenge, competitive spirit, goal to win in close enough (skill wise) lobby that makes me ADJUST / IMPROVE.

    My motivation totally drops in both cases:

    a) when I do like 10 kills without much effort

    b) when I get stomped by someone who has 10+ kills and just running the lobby

    I think if matchmaking would work that would create less stress for players as they would know that everyone in the lobby is about their skill level (combination of brain and raw mechanics) -> that would imo lead to higher motivation levels to engage in fights at the same time respect opponents and not just W into them.

    At higher ranks it would create what most dread and call "ALGS like playstyle" = you rotate to the best spot in first <5 min and defend it till you die or till the end zone 10+ min later. But in lower ranks I would assume situation would be totally different and people would still kinda take risks and fight a lot just vs similarly skilled players.

    Still I think the issues is more on the side of the community:

    • drunk or stoned casuals
    • trolls
    • smurfs
    • hackers
    • system abusers (dropping games to get into easier lobbies -> stomp -> repeat)
    • people who have 0 intention on teamworking
    • inability to communicate with other humans
    • hotdrop -> die -> disconnect  -> repeat 1000000000 times -> die in real life from old age :D

     

    How I know that? We all have had that one game where randoms just magically do use mics, are on the same level and want to win -> in most cases especially pubs that yields very nice games, quite often ending in winning with at least average level of KP as well (not by camping). For me that is a very clear sign that even pubs if players as intended can be and would be more fun experience UNLESS community contained 90% of above mentioned sub-optimal humans.

    p.s. vVv_Bjoergen_vVv​ - stop paying attention to badges and mentioning them: badges have never basically shown anything much especially for the past 20 seasons or so. All the boosting, acquiring them via bot lobbies and random pub events, account trading etc. made them totally worthless. Add to that hacking (your combo of some small ego boy getting multi-Pred account + hacks = acting in game like he god of the game) ... and badges really make no sense. Visual decoration at best, skill rating = totally not.

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