[Discussion Thread] Core Feedback - Specialists

@CantGetRightBattlefield had a bigger playerbase in every previous game and BFV and 1 still have more players than this game. Get rid of specialists because people don't want them, that's the message here and it's loud and clear. You might like specialists but this isn't Call of Duty, people who actually like Battlefield? We don't want it.

@PartWeIshSo do I understand this correctly, that after the change each soldier will have access to three "gadgets"?

Specialist gadget, Class Equipment and Class Gadget?

This is in my opinion a great change and thank you for listening to the feedback!

A suggestion from me: I still think the weapons might need to be class specific:

For example assault gets AR's

Medics get LMGs

Engineers get SMGs

Recon get snipers and DMR's (or give DMRs and shotguns to all classes, like the CQC weps in BF3).

Gadgets being put in different classes like presented in the briefing looked good. 

I also take it we get an extra gadget slot now since for example recon has the insertion beacon and you can use for example the soflam AND your specialist's unique skill (like the recon drone for Casper or the Hook for Mckay?)

All in all solid changes in my opinion. Keep up the good work!

@CantGetRighti mean each to their own but numbers speak the truth. Its a BF game, classes is and should be an integral part of Battlefield

@CantGetRight Wrong, Battlefield should and always has been a class-based team orientated shooter, if you don't like restricted gadgets and grenades then play Call of Duty, Battlefield has always features a Class System. Be grateful that you can still select any primary weapons you wanted. 

Specialists are perhaps the most divisive topic that I’ve ever seen in the history of Battlefield and I’ve played every title. Due to their divisiveness the best and only realistic way to address the very controversial Specialist issue is to run two parallel versions of AOW concurrently with full XP and progression and allow the community to play the version that they and their community members like. Have one Specialist version of AOW with the Specialists separated into classes change, and one Classic Battlefield Class based version of AOW without Specialists using generic soldier models with the well done 2042 AI class skins from the base game applied to the Battlefield 3 classes that are already in game, without Specialist gadgets, and with weapon and gadget restrictions. In the traditional class based AOW keep both gadget slots open to customize load outs like Battlefield 3 had instead of forcing one gadget to be non-changeable like 2042 incorrectly does to BF3 classes in Portal.

There is already precedent for this type of change in Battlefield. In Battlefield 4 the core mode of the game at launch incorporated the full mag dumps during reload from the hard core mode of Battlefield 3 and earlier Refractor era Battlefield titles. The Community who played core mode in BF3 and BC2 didn’t like this change and demanded that it be reverted back to non-full mag dump reloads in core like in Battlefield 3. DICE then kept the launch full mag dump core mode as a “classic” version that you could choose to play side by side with the new non-mag dump reload version of core. This open mindedness made both sides of the community happy because nobody lost anything and Battlefield 3 core players could play the way they are familiar with, which is precisely what I am proposing for the Specialist problem.

Two versions of AOW are a must because:

1. Nothing should ever be removed from the game once it launches with it and some people do in fact like Specialists. I would be angry if something I liked and was removed from the game in a later patch and 2042 cannot afford to have more angry players.

2. A large part of the Community will not accept Specialists in any form and wants the Battlefield experience that we’ve loved for 20 years that was insinuated in the launch trailer where Specialists were made to look like normal uniformed soldiers so the best course of action is literally to please your entire player base. At this point in 2042 pleasing everyone is the only way to win your core fan base back so this course of action is well worth the time, effort, and expense and will generate positive community sentiment and the goodwill that has been lacking since Battlefield V. If the Community sees DICE giving us the traditional Battlefield experience that we want without killing support for 2042 early like you did in Battlefield V the jilted player base is far more likely to actually purchase the next Battlefield title. As an active Battlefield Community member I’ve never seen so many long term players not buy the current title and many more talk about not buying the next title until they see that it’s actually a good Battlefield title. This is an important development since Battlefield players used to pre-order without hesitation including all DLC via Premium and were happy about it so this change in a formerly super-fan community where DICE devs were bonafide celebrities is jarring. Be advised that simply putting Specialists into classes will not satisfy your core player base because a large portion of your core player base dislikes the Specialists themselves as well as their gadgets and not just the lack of classes and weapon/gadget restrictions that Specialists currently have.

3. Heavily advertise the Classic Class Based Battlefield AOW on social media and in game so the players you drove away with Specialists know of the change and either return for the Battlefield experience that they didn’t get with Specialists or buy the game generating additional revenue for EA after you offer a series of free weekends for former Battlefield players to try the new Classic Class Based AOW. I cannot stress enough how import it is to tell the Battlefield Community “we were wrong, we heard you, and have given you the traditional Battlefield experience that you expect from a Battlefield title and will not be making this mistake again next game which will be Battlefield 3.5 in terms of game play.” Do not use non-committal corporate speak like “we missed the mark” as players see through these disingenuous statements - use Final Fantasy 14 developer apologies as the example to emulate. After Battlefield V the community has no more good will and patience to give to DICE like we did during Battlefield 4’s redemption into one of the best games in the franchise so frequent, robust, and honest communication as well as an admission of fault is required to rebuild trust with your long time core players.
   The course of action with parallel AOWs will help greatly to rebuild trust with your estranged core player base after BFV/2042 destroyed it and will also keep the Apex hero shooter fans that you attracted with Specialists happy for this entry. Recommendation: do not bring Specialists/heroes/Operators/Elites back in any form in the next Battlefield title – go back to generic soldiers separated into classes and never look back. We play Battlefield because we want the Battlefield experience; we don’t want an Apex, Warzone, or RS6 experience. Battlefield offers a unique game play experience and while changes are possible in a two decades old franchise, those changes must be approached cautiously, logically, and you must listen to your player base when they don’t like the changes regardless of what’s currently popular in the industry. Doubling down will cause you far more trouble in the long term as illustrated by BFV until the Pacific launched and its multiple unwanted TTK changes, as well as everything in 2042 to this point. Any changes to the Battlefield formula should be experimented with in side modes to gauge community reception - the core experience and authenticity (not to be confused with realism) of Battlefield should never be changed especially when the goal of the change is not the betterment of the game but the pursuit of monetization.

Specialists by their very nature destroy the team work that Battlefield is known for with their gadgets. Paik, Boris, Sundance and McKay’s gadgets are selfish lone wolf centric gadgets contributing nothing to the team or squad. Sundance and McKay’s gadgets by their very design take you away from your squad so you aren’t there covering their six, reviving them, throwing ammo or health, or repairing vehicles – this is a big issue in 2042’s smaller 4 man squads. These gadgets also introduce unneeded verticality into the game contributing to the feeling that you are being shot from everywhere simultaneously because they allow snipers to be literally anywhere at any time and completely disrupt the predictable flow of battle since someone using a wing suit or grappling hook can traverse the map in a much shorter time than walking. Having predictable flows of battle and predictable engagement ranges are very important parts of the Battlefield formula that prevent large battles from feeling like the unscripted chaos that we get in Metro or Locker type meat grinder maps. Non-specialist gadgets like the armor plate and medic pen are also lone wolf-centric contributing nothing to the squad or team diluting team play in 2042 and also need to be addressed. Boris’ turret is just unfun to play against since it like the rover is just an automated robot with no skill required, it’s just free kills - fire and forget and is frustrating to die to. Just because those gadgets work for an individual in Hazard zone doesn’t mean they work for the team in Conquest, Rush, or Breakthrough where teamwork and playing the objective is what counts. Side note, if DICE wants to cash in on the Hero Shooter trend of the current gaming industry without alienating the core Battlefield fan base they can make an off-meta odd year franchise entry to experiment with heroes/Apex Legends by resurrecting the old “Battlefield Heroes” title while still servicing your mainline Battlefield fan base with the main Battlefield entries that use the traditional generic soldier separated into classes. Just be clear in your marketing as to what the off meta game is so you don’t anger core Battlefield fans and continue content support for the mainline class based Battlefield entry while the “heroes” entry is launched and serviced simultaneously.

In the military we wear something called a uniform for the express purpose of all looking the same. The reason we wear a uniform is so we can identify friend from foe at a glance which is impossible in 2042 because both sides have the same exact identical Specialists (visually and shared cosmetics,) on both sides. This being the situation we need faction based Specialists (i.e. separating the current pool of Specialists into US or Russian factions usable only in those factions) or mandatory faction based Specialist skin sets pools usable only within those factions with faction voice lines in English or Russian for the Specialist version of AOW. This would require separate US and Russian slots for cosmetics in the current load out screen but the end result for game play would be highly beneficial to the health of the Specialist version of the game.

The current version of the Specialist system is unservicable because having the same exact people on both sides – especially when they look and sound identical is game breaking in practice on the battlefield. I saw two Boris Specialists from opposing teams standing right next to one another on top of a building in Kaleidoscope firing PKPs in the same exact direction completely oblivious that they were standing next to an enemy until I killed one of them. I watched both of them shooting joyfully oblivious for a good 15 seconds before I took the shot killing the enemy. There are so many times that I see a “teammate” run around a corner only to shoot or stab me. Firefights are won or lost in an instant so any delay in identifying friend from foe is unacceptable which is why we need faction looks for Specialists. I raised this issue before and was told the line about the US and Russia engaging in proxy wars using Specialists for plausible deniability. If that was true why are the AI soldiers in direct support roles on each team separated into official US and Russian soldier factions in their own in game name tag and visuals? At this point in 2042 game play must trump lore and background so just separate us into official named uniformed US and Russian factions and call it a day.

Class based weapon and gadget class restrictions are a must because having no restrictions actually results in less weapon and gadget diversity on the battlefield since everyone can use the meta specialist/weapon/gadget combo. It also not only allows for but encourages people to create total lone wolf load outs further diminishing team play instead of having to make trade offs to perform a role, support your squad or team, or use a weapon or gadget type. Historically Battlefield has been at its best when it was based on the rock/paper/scissors balancing concept. The rock/paper/scissors concept is completely absent when everyone can use any Specialist/weapon/gadget at any time.

"Throwables" i.e. grenades should be left open for all classes to use like we had in Battlefield 4 and not separated for use by class.

Q: But Rags, what about monetization?

A: Well if very few people like the Specialists most won’t buy the monetized skin for them regardless yielding far less money than if you change course and give players what we want. Happy players are far more willing to support a game via in game purchases than estranged and bitter players. DICE used to have some rather talented folks who could make realistic cosmetics and camos, I know they can do this again for classes if they disregard current trends in gaming and look at what their core audience wants and has been very vocal about for years.

Q: But Rags, what about 4 new Specialists in the Battlepass?

A: They can still use the Battlepass plan offering 4 new Specialists because under my plan there would still be a Specialist version of AOW and EA can fulfill its contractual obligation to those who pre-purchased the Battlepass. If DICE would like to also support the class based side of AOW in my plan with Battlepass content they could also offer additional classes in the battlepass because Battlefield 2 had 7 classes so we could use the 4 classes from BF3 as the basis for 2042’s class system and add in additional legacy BF2 classes as part of the Battlepass and give the players the added choice that you touted in 2042’s marketing.

The Cringe – the specialists are the single most cringey thing I’ve ever seen in Battlefield – and I played Hardline for 16 hours constantly hearing ‘woop woop it’s the sound of the police’ on repeat. The Specialist’s look, voice lines, attitudes, and customization are completely at odds with the narrative of 2042 and the legacy of the Battlefield franchise in every way even with the recent voice line changes of June 2022. Remove the end of round screen and only show us the scoreboard, or allow us to disable the end of round screens and only see the scoreboard as I don’t need to see someone’s lore breaking skin and voice line, I only want to see both teams’ performance in addition to my personal performance on the scoreboard at end of round.

Cosmetics – the same part of the community that has a visceral rejection of specialists also loath their cosmetics wanting traditional military cosmetics that fit the theme of a war game and the legacy of the Battlefield franchise. I understand that EA wishes to monetize 2042 as if it was COD Warzone, RS6 Siege, FIFA Ultimate Team, or Overwatch but as stated, this is a 20 year old franchise with grounded expectations of what makes a proper Battlefield title. The newer cosmetics are much more grounded and that is much appreciated but there are still outliers like we see below:

The good news is that you can still move forward with your monetization plans AND please your core player base with a two pronged approach. First create a customization kill switch. Much of the push back to the insane cosmetics that we see in Warzone, RS6, and Battlefield V/2042 from the core player base is because it ruins our immersion when we see someone who looks like they’re at a disco on the battlefield instead of someone that looks like a soldier. There are also players who intentionally created insane unrealistic uniform combinations in Battlefield V to ruin the immersion of players who want a traditional Battlefield experience – they admitted to this on the forums numerous times while I was a forum moderator. If you can make it so we can choose not to see a cosmetic then you can literally run wild with whatever you wish to sell and everyone will be happy; you could literally sell an Easter Bunny skin and nobody will care if we have a customization kill switch. If you also sell realistic solider cosmetics to support both sides of the player base all the better. My personal preference would be a granular kill switch so I can choose to see some cosmetics and not the worst offenders, however if that isn’t possible a global kills witch where everyone looks like the default AI soldiers would be solid second choice.

World of Tanks is a Free2Play game meaning it makes 100% of its profits from microtransactions and it provides such a kill switch under the “Hide non-historical elements” toggle because they know their player base (see below)

Tangential issue of Specialists vs Classes in Portal. Initially when Portal was announced long time Battlefield players took solace in the fact that we didn’t have to play with Specialists, we could make a Portal server, substitute one of the traditional Class structures from previous Battlefield titles for Specialists and play the 2042 maps for a standard Battlefield experience on the new maps. Unfortunately DICE then almost completely removed XP and progression from Portal experiences outside of “official” Portal modes which killed interest in Portal. Portal should for most experiences have full progression, XP, ribbons, and weekly missions enabled. There should be several settings that we can change that do not reduce any XP or progression such as substituting Specialists with Classes, turning on the traditional 3D spotting that we’ve had from BF2142-BF1, and so on so your long time players can still have a proper Battlefield experience regardless of which route you take on the community’s Specialists feedback. I’ve seen a lot of positive movement in this area so I’m optimistic about the future in Portal but honestly, all Portal experiences should just have full XP enabled since DICE hasn’t cracked down on boosting servers since BF4.

In conclusion we are at the make or break point not only for Battlefield 2042, but for the Battlefield franchise as a whole. The good news is that Battlefield can recover if you give the core player base what they want – the ability to play as traditional generic soldiers broken down into classes while at the same time giving those players who like Specialists in 2042 the ability to continue to enjoy Specialists in the mode they like. Simply ram-rodding Specialists into classes will not satisfy the core players because they dislike everything about the Specialists not just the lack of class structure or weapon and gadget restrictions. DICE be the rockstars that you were back in Battlefield 3 and make Battlefield great again; the Community wants to love Battlefield again!