Re: Tanks are too Weak

@Karen0202the spotter seat could use a soflam.

But the main issue with tanks is generally how being aggressive is discouraged too much

C5 is the reason I avoid tanks, as it is so easy to air drop completely out of tank sighting range within 5 feet of a tank, and then "insta-kill" it and yet somehow survive just a few feet away.

If Dice thinks imaginary super C5 is a good idea in BF 2042, at least make the player who pushes a single button die if not at least 50 feet away.  As nobody would survive even 100 feet away in real life, and then the tank driver would then have a chance to stop the one-button-insta-kill" of their tank as the enemy would have to run away at least 50 feet.

Another idea is make C5 take a few seconds to actually "prime" versus have it tossed like some magical sticky grenade from Halo.  

The fantasy nature of "C5" takes away from the realism that BF legacy has attempted over the years.  And the ground vehicles suffer, no different that the ground infantry suffering from imaginary Apex Pathfinder Mackay "grapple" that creates impossible ground movements and positions.  This creates the WTH moments that I believe ultimately make the game boring to many players...

 The fantasy "gadgets" are really difficult to balance, so my "hope" is the "class system update" will help remove the number of these fantasy weapons in play as if everyone runs around tossing C5 constantly for one button insta-kills of EVERYTHING, what is the point of the game???

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@DeepSixxxx wrote:

C5 is the reason I avoid tanks, as it is so easy to air drop completely out of tank sighting range within 5 feet of a tank, and then "insta-kill" it and yet somehow survive just a few feet away.

If Dice thinks imaginary super C5 is a good idea in BF 2042, at least make the player who pushes a single button die if not at least 50 feet away.  As nobody would survive even 100 feet away in real life, and then the tank driver would then have a chance to stop the one-button-insta-kill" of their tank as the enemy would have to run away at least 50 feet.

Another idea is make C5 take a few seconds to actually "prime" versus have it tossed like some magical sticky grenade from Halo.  

The fantasy nature of "C5" takes away from the realism that BF legacy has attempted over the years.  And the ground vehicles suffer, no different that the ground infantry suffering from imaginary Apex Pathfinder Mackay "grapple" that creates impossible ground movements and positions.  This creates the WTH moments that I believe ultimately make the game boring to many players...

 The fantasy "gadgets" are really difficult to balance, so my "hope" is the "class system update" will help remove the number of these fantasy weapons in play as if everyone runs around tossing C5 constantly for one button insta-kills of EVERYTHING, what is the point of the game???

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I totally agree with you on C5 being an issue.

Between how slow it takes the tank to accelerate, getting stuck on everything, turn radius, turret speed, and limited vertical turret range, C5 feels really unbalanced. You can’t stop in tank for a second because everyone is running C5. You can’t out run a person on foot if you’re stopped, you can’t aim downward enough to hit them with the main cannon. It takes them all of two seconds to toss three things of C5 and run a few feet away and live.

Then there’s the other problem you mentioned, how easy it is for enemies to get near you in a tank like Sundance, enemies spawning right next to you after clearing that exact spot only a moment ago, and it being relatively easy for anyone to parachute and drop basically right on a tank if the tank isn’t completely hauling it.

Air vehicles have been more tanky then the actual tanks in BF2042. 

I didnt necro post this one WOO HOOO

Im currently trying to T1 C5.  I have 35 kills to go and frankly, you all make it seem easier then it is.

Air Drop:  Shot on the way down by the tank, aircraft, or others before you can drop 3 and detonate

Squirrel Drop:  Increases chance of success, but not a slam dunk, either the tank or others shoot you before you can drop 3 and detonate

Grappling Hook:  either the tank or others shoot you before you can drop 3 and detonate

Without Mackay and sundance it is a one in 10 success rate.  Youre only experiencing the 1.  You just consider the other 9 kills like any other.  Mackay or Sundance improve the odds to about 3 in 10. 

Additionally, where the C5 is placed matters.   I have dropped 3 many times and the vehicle is not destroyed.   And yes, we do die.   Frankly, the chance of living while running from a tank far enough before the tank or others shoot you is slim.   Once the 3rd is dropped I blow the tank up and usually myself.  It is my suicide bomber loadout. 

Frankly a 10% chance of success isnt an issue. 

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@DeepSixxxx wrote:

C5 is the reason I avoid tanks, as it is so easy to air drop completely out of tank sighting range within 5 feet of a tank, and then "insta-kill" it and yet somehow survive just a few feet away.

If Dice thinks imaginary super C5 is a good idea in BF 2042, at least make the player who pushes a single button die if not at least 50 feet away.  As nobody would survive even 100 feet away in real life, and then the tank driver would then have a chance to stop the one-button-insta-kill" of their tank as the enemy would have to run away at least 50 feet.

Another idea is make C5 take a few seconds to actually "prime" versus have it tossed like some magical sticky grenade from Halo.  

The fantasy nature of "C5" takes away from the realism that BF legacy has attempted over the years.  And the ground vehicles suffer, no different that the ground infantry suffering from imaginary Apex Pathfinder Mackay "grapple" that creates impossible ground movements and positions.  This creates the WTH moments that I believe ultimately make the game boring to many players...

 The fantasy "gadgets" are really difficult to balance, so my "hope" is the "class system update" will help remove the number of these fantasy weapons in play as if everyone runs around tossing C5 constantly for one button insta-kills of EVERYTHING, what is the point of the game???

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There's little chance Dice removes C5 from sassy batgirl or spider Mackay, the 2 main tank destroyers in the game.

The fallout would be massive.

Even without these 2 specialists with the transport chopper meta you will still have players parachuting behind you or above you dropping C5.

As to them dying, no infantry players cares if they die after destroying a heavy armoured vehicle.

They just respawn with a fresh load of C5 10 seconds or so later.

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@ATFGunr wrote:
Nobody seems to mention that a hand grenade does 20 damage, the same as an M5 rocket. That’s totally insane. So that’s a tweak, should not be 20,10 at best.

Turret speed needs a buff. Since day 1 it’s been slow, perhaps too “real”.

Tanks need to be slow, ok ok with the speeds and boost, however we’re talking about a 60 ton vehicle (M1 actual weight). It goes over obstacles like it’s an ATV. It should feel and drive like a 60 ton behemoth. Small rocks should not flip it over.

An APS system for the spotter should be added as others suggested. Short duration, would finally make that seat useful.

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BF3 and BF4 tanks handled absolutely awfully on uneven surfaces. Apart from the mobility issues I get a very satisfying feeling of weight with 2042 tanks. 

As long as you stick to the flat surfaces they handle very well but an increase to their top speed would be welcome.

As far as everything else it's been said numerous times already what needs to be done to improve tanks which don't require much work to implement but Dice haven't touched tanks apart from some very minor tweaks months ago.

Infantry squeak the most and therefore get the attention of Dice's oil.

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@Padding_Ur_Stats wrote:

Im currently trying to T1 C5.  I have 35 kills to go and frankly, you all make it seem easier then it is.

Air Drop:  Shot on the way down by the tank, aircraft, or others before you can drop 3 and detonate

Squirrel Drop:  Increases chance of success, but not a slam dunk, either the tank or others shoot you before you can drop 3 and detonate

Grappling Hook:  either the tank or others shoot you before you can drop 3 and detonate

Without Mackay and sundance it is a one in 10 success rate.  Youre only experiencing the 1.  You just consider the other 9 kills like any other.  Mackay or Sundance improve the odds to about 3 in 10. 

Additionally, where the C5 is placed matters.   I have dropped 3 many times and the vehicle is not destroyed.   And yes, we do die.   Frankly, the chance of living while running from a tank far enough before the tank or others shoot you is slim.   Once the 3rd is dropped I blow the tank up and usually myself.  It is my suicide bomber loadout. 

Frankly a 10% chance of success isnt an issue. 

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Using the stats you gave of 10% per soldier. If there’s 6-10 people running C5, then there’s a pretty good chance one of them will get through. Vehicle spawns are much longer, infantry can just keep re-spawning on point.

I don’t think you realize just how difficult it is to drive the tank. Everything is so slow about it. Dice sure love their geometry and give you infinite opportunities to get stuck. There’s so many challenges to protecting yourself from enemies that are very close to you, and nearly impossible to keep distance with how the maps are designed, Sundance, spawns, etc. 

There’s 64 players per team. That’s a lot of opportunity for rockets, being hacked, C5, and then there’s aircraft you can’t do anything about. You’re kinda right, it’s not a given or the easiest thing to just run up and C5 every vehicle with 100% success rate. If the team has bit of coordination you get punished instantly in a tank if you slightly overextend. I’m talking like 20 yards or being on the wrong side of a point being fought over while on the move. 

The problem I have when it comes to the balancing between ground and air is that air vehicles can disengage a lot easier, they’re far harder to hit in 3d space, you have to be specially equipped to deal with them, and they won’t get stuck on anything. Aircraft can carry all the weight in the world without any penalty and move freely. I usually don’t care about realism, but the Condor is just ridiculous in every way. It breaks all the laws of physics lol. I’m glad they’re finally balancing air vehicles, but it took a while. 

Tanks need a turret speed buff, nothing crazy, but literally any increase would be great. Turn radius could be improved, I have to brake, then give it gas, and feather it through turns. It’s pretty obnoxious it takes that much work to make just regular turns. Even standing still and trying to rotate seems slower than what a tank could do in real life. 

Alright, that got a little lengthy. Sorry.

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@RaginSam wrote:

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Using the stats you gave of 10% per soldier. If there’s 6-10 people running C5, then there’s a pretty good chance one of them will get through. Vehicle spawns are much longer, infantry can just keep re-spawning on point.

So youre basically saying nerf teamwork?  That is what is supposed to happen.  You kill 5-6.  That is like saying, if 3 guys shoot at me, I have no chance.  Only allow one person to fire at me at a time.   That is war my friend.

I don’t think you realize just how difficult it is to drive the tank. Everything is so slow about it. Dice sure love their geometry and give you infinite opportunities to get stuck. There’s so many challenges to protecting yourself from enemies that are very close to you, and nearly impossible to keep distance with how the maps are designed, Sundance, spawns, etc. 

I have driven tanks.   It takes them time to get to speed.  But then, that is as it should be.  When at speed, infantry cannot catch them.  So.... hmmmm how do you adjust.... let me see.... Oh, remain mobile!  Yeah that's it.  Yes Sundance and Mackay still have opportunity, but even then, it is a 3/10 chance.  Most tanks issues reside in the start up moving.  That means youre standing still.  That is the mistake.

There’s 64 players per team. That’s a lot of opportunity for rockets, being hacked, C5, and then there’s aircraft you can’t do anything about. You’re kinda right, it’s not a given or the easiest thing to just run up and C5 every vehicle with 100% success rate. If the team has bit of coordination you get punished instantly in a tank if you slightly overextend. I’m talking like 20 yards or being on the wrong side of a point being fought over while on the move. 

Again, youre nerfing teamwork, which is the basis of game design.   I have seen tanks with a squad on the tank protecting it.  They are nigh invincible.  They shoot any Sundance and Mackay, C5.  Tanks using teamwork to survive..... Hmmmm

The problem I have when it comes to the balancing between ground and air is that air vehicles can disengage a lot easier, they’re far harder to hit in 3d space, you have to be specially equipped to deal with them, and they won’t get stuck on anything. Aircraft can carry all the weight in the world without any penalty and move freely. I usually don’t care about realism, but the Condor is just ridiculous in every way. It breaks all the laws of physics lol. I’m glad they’re finally balancing air vehicles, but it took a while. 

You do realize there are planes that hover, right?  Condor is the easiest to down.  That being said, Air>Armor>Infantry.    The irony is there is an Air thread complaining about the same as this thread.    IMHO, the only thing needed is to remove the borg regen from the game.  This will cycle vehicles faster, give more pilots opportunity to drive.   Even with your issues, all I see is armor parked on flags.   If youre one of those, you deserve to die.  I can throw my C5 on you.   I get most my kills that way.  

Tanks need a turret speed buff, nothing crazy, but literally any increase would be great. Turn radius could be improved, I have to brake, then give it gas, and feather it through turns. It’s pretty obnoxious it takes that much work to make just regular turns. Even standing still and trying to rotate seems slower than what a tank could do in real life. 

Or exit and shoot those approaching like most tanks do today.

Alright, that got a little lengthy. Sorry.

Not at all, being thorough allows learning through discussion.  

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@Padding_Ur_Stats wrote:

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@RaginSam wrote:

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Using the stats you gave of 10% per soldier. If there’s 6-10 people running C5, then there’s a pretty good chance one of them will get through. Vehicle spawns are much longer, infantry can just keep re-spawning on point.

So youre basically saying nerf teamwork?  That is what is supposed to happen.  You kill 5-6.  That is like saying, if 3 guys shoot at me, I have no chance.  Only allow one person to fire at me at a time.   That is war my friend.

I don’t think you realize just how difficult it is to drive the tank. Everything is so slow about it. Dice sure love their geometry and give you infinite opportunities to get stuck. There’s so many challenges to protecting yourself from enemies that are very close to you, and nearly impossible to keep distance with how the maps are designed, Sundance, spawns, etc. 

I have driven tanks.   It takes them time to get to speed.  But then, that is as it should be.  When at speed, infantry cannot catch them.  So.... hmmmm how do you adjust.... let me see.... Oh, remain mobile!  Yeah that's it.  Yes Sundance and Mackay still have opportunity, but even then, it is a 3/10 chance.  Most tanks issues reside in the start up moving.  That means youre standing still.  That is the mistake.

There’s 64 players per team. That’s a lot of opportunity for rockets, being hacked, C5, and then there’s aircraft you can’t do anything about. You’re kinda right, it’s not a given or the easiest thing to just run up and C5 every vehicle with 100% success rate. If the team has bit of coordination you get punished instantly in a tank if you slightly overextend. I’m talking like 20 yards or being on the wrong side of a point being fought over while on the move. 

Again, youre nerfing teamwork, which is the basis of game design.   I have seen tanks with a squad on the tank protecting it.  They are nigh invincible.  They shoot any Sundance and Mackay, C5.  Tanks using teamwork to survive..... Hmmmm

The problem I have when it comes to the balancing between ground and air is that air vehicles can disengage a lot easier, they’re far harder to hit in 3d space, you have to be specially equipped to deal with them, and they won’t get stuck on anything. Aircraft can carry all the weight in the world without any penalty and move freely. I usually don’t care about realism, but the Condor is just ridiculous in every way. It breaks all the laws of physics lol. I’m glad they’re finally balancing air vehicles, but it took a while. 

You do realize there are planes that hover, right?  Condor is the easiest to down.  That being said, Air>Armor>Infantry.    The irony is there is an Air thread complaining about the same as this thread.    IMHO, the only thing needed is to remove the borg regen from the game.  This will cycle vehicles faster, give more pilots opportunity to drive.   Even with your issues, all I see is armor parked on flags.   If youre one of those, you deserve to die.  I can throw my C5 on you.   I get most my kills that way.  

Tanks need a turret speed buff, nothing crazy, but literally any increase would be great. Turn radius could be improved, I have to brake, then give it gas, and feather it through turns. It’s pretty obnoxious it takes that much work to make just regular turns. Even standing still and trying to rotate seems slower than what a tank could do in real life. 

Or exit and shoot those approaching like most tanks do today.

Alright, that got a little lengthy. Sorry.

Not at all, being thorough allows learning through discussion.  

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First rule of using a tank in any Battlefield game, never get out and always die with your tank. You NEVER give the enemy the opportunity to steal your tank! 

Battlefield is a team game. No, I don’t want “teamwork” nerfed. That’s a bit of a stretch to claim that’s what I’m aiming for. To load up the game and play pretty much any mode requires teamwork, that shouldn’t be the conversation. The conversation is Balancing. 

I pointed out how many players are on the field and the percentage you gave. There’s easily 10 people near every objective. So the first objective you go to with the tank, because you’re trying to cap since it’s a team game, there’s 10 of you all trying to C5. The tank isn’t going to kill all 10 campers lurking 15-20 feet away on the small cap zone. You can’t rock back and forth and keep momentum, your turret is so slow and hopefully you’re pointed in the right direction, and you can’t aim downward enough. Keeping the armor alive versus how easy it is for someone to toss C5 10 feet in two seconds doesn’t feel exactly balanced to me. 

No one uses the 3rd and 4th seat in a tank either. You wanna know why? Because it’s mind numbly boring. Hardly anyone wants to sit in the second seat, and that’s partly due to having to constantly be on the move which means the tank is bouncing around all the time.

Running C5 is low risk, high reward. 

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@RaginSam wrote:

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Running C5 is low risk, high reward. 

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Dying 90% of the time is low risk?   BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

Sorry, but your presumption that everyone has C5 is obtuse.   Ammo boxes, med boxes, AA and recoil are far higher on the common loadout then C5 because of the high risk.

10% is not OP.  

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@RaginSam wrote:
@Padding_Ur_StatsYou’re ignoring all the parts of my argument and focusing in on one part of it and trying to misrepresent my point.

If there’s 10 people on a point, and all of them have a 10% chance of being successful, then it’s pretty much a guaranteed kill? Do the percentages go up linearly or exponentially? The more people rushing a tank at once, then it’ll only take a few people from different angles to have a guaranteed kill. And yes, lots of people are running C5 because it’s useful as a grenade or blowing up vehicles. People switch throughout rounds as well. You start doing well in a tank and all of a sudden everyone is running rockets, C5, Sundance, and Rao.

No Im not.  Youre point is many people vs the tank.  That literally is the game.  Its called teamwork.  You want tanks boosted to alleviate teamwork.  Hence I said, nerf Teamwork in a previous post.  Do that mean when I, as an infantry, am confronted with 3 enemy infantry, 2 of their guns wont work because hey, 3 on 1 you know!  And yes, people adjust load outs.   That is part of the game as well.   But they're not all pulling C5.   Some are pulling Recoil, and AAs because they dont want the 1 in 10 chances when they can fire from a distance.   Theyre worried about their KD ratios I guess. Me, I die the 9 times for the kill. 

You’re also missing one of the most important part of this argument. The tank is slow in every aspect, and I’ve already mentioned several times at this point in how they’re not designed to fight infantry up close. You can’t even outrun someone on foot while they start charging at you from 30 feet away!

 

Tanks are slow from a stop.  They are faster then a running infantry when they get going, they outrun my sprint all the time and guess what, they kill me!  If this is your problem, we have found your issue. Don't stop.  I see armor constantly moving all the time and hey!  Guess What!  Theyre hard to catch and destroy.   Those that sit still and fire their unlimited ammo, they're meat.

 

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In closing, there is absolutely NO ISSUE with C5.  A 10% success ratio does not need to be nerfed.   Oh and remember, 3 C5 doesnt always destroy the vehicle as it is, so if one gets the 10% there is a chance it still wont work.  Just because you only experience the 90% failures as part of your infantry farming, doesn't mean it shouldn't be considered.

@Tank2042ManMaybe becouse other players didnt have the chance to get a vehicle ?
The majority is forced to play infantry, saying stuff like they squeak or complain the most is somewhat irrational.
If you make the game not fun for infantry then the majority just quits and this reason is also a part of why 2042 sucks so hard.

I do agree that infantry right now have it to easy to destroy ground vehicles becouse everyone can pick c5 and m5 with Sundance or mackay
But when S3 comes with a class system the amount of threats a tank has do deal with reduces significantly.
There are still c5 sundances or mackays but atleast you won’t get surprised by a m5 mackay ontop of some building or container anymore.

Now thats all thats left to take care of is the Lis Problem and how many can actually spawn with her.
Her Rocketlauncher is the most dangerous thing besides c5 becouse it almost completely ignores your positioning, making it a lot harder to survive in the open.

This cannot be countered except you have a dedicated repair monkey in your vehicle (like me, T1 repairtool*cought*)
In my opinion ther should be a limit of max. 3 LIS players per side so ground vehicles have a chance to stay alive longer.

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@Bolvard wrote:

@Tank2042ManMaybe becouse other players didnt have the chance to get a vehicle ?
The majority is forced to play infantry, saying stuff like they squeak or complain the most is somewhat irrational.
If you make the game not fun for infantry then the majority just quits and this reason is also a part of why 2042 sucks so hard.

I do agree that infantry right now have it to easy to destroy ground vehicles becouse everyone can pick c5 and m5 with Sundance or mackay
But when S3 comes with a class system the amount of threats a tank has do deal with reduces significantly.
There are still c5 sundances or mackays but atleast you won’t get surprised by a m5 mackay ontop of some building or container anymore.

Now thats all thats left to take care of is the Lis Problem and how many can actually spawn with her.
Her Rocketlauncher is the most dangerous thing besides c5 becouse it almost completely ignores your positioning, making it a lot harder to survive in the open.

This cannot be countered except you have a dedicated repair monkey in your vehicle (like me, T1 repairtool*cought*)
In my opinion ther should be a limit of max. 3 LIS players per side so ground vehicles have a chance to stay alive longer.

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"The squeaky wheel gets the grease"

It's a famous proverb which is what I was referencing as a FYI.

And it's also true, and it's clearly true with 2042.

"If you make the game not fun for infantry then the majority just quits and this reason is also a part of why 2042 sucks so hard".

Tanks were OP vs infantry in BF4, yet that game had the biggest battlefield playerbase in the franchises history.

Once Dice LA had finished with the CTE that game reached around 400,000 players online across all platforms to the point that Dice were posting on the forums about how amazing this feat was that late in the games lifecycle.

So obviously OP or powerful tanks doesn't turn infantry players off playing.

Tanking a lot of the time in 2042, and I'm not being hyperbolic, reminds me of using tanks in Battlefield Heroes.

Just throw away items that are just one second away from some battlefield superhero flying in and blowing you up.

It's ridiculous and infantile game design and feeds back into my narrative that 2042 has an identity crisis.

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@Bolvard wrote:
@UP_HawxxeyeSince when does a liz missile get destroyed by irish‘ sentinel ?

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Since the introduction of the EBLC-Ram vehicle they updated the sentinel as a side effect to work better than before and stop liz missiles.

At the same time it also became able to stop m5 rockets with perfect success.