I have made a personal assessment to see which specialists are the most or least efficient in each map (only maps of 2042). I considered the efficiency and overall impact of a specialist in a specific map and only in conquest mode, regardless of achievable kill count (I believe kill count is mostly depend to player skill). I don’t mention the considered parameters to keep this read as short as possible but below is the results, definitely developer team has access to gameplay data and those data may be different with this personal investigation.- Mackey is the only specialist who stands in top three for all maps- Lis and Rao are the only specialist who ranked as “least efficient” in 3 maps (Stranded, Discarded & Manifest)- Support class (Falk, Angel and Crawford) is the only class that all of its specialist are in an acceptable level in all mapsFrom my point of view some adjustment is required to make these specialist more balanced.Mackey: does he really need to attach the grappling to everything? Maybe it’s better to define some limited objects for attaching to his hook or change his ability to a more “team oriented” skillLis and Rao: I think Lis ability in seeing damaged vehicles to be transferred to Rao and a new ability be assigned to Lis which make her more powerful in defending a point (similar to other engineers such as Irish and Boris)

The gameplay has become stupid gimmicks and unpredictable action because of the specialists. You have turrets, scatter-grenades, adad-spammers, flying people, grappling hooks etc etc which all make the game a total mess of stupid gameplay.In earlier titles things were much more predictable, now it is just a mess of people running around everywhere on the map all the time. This game has more than ever just become one big TDM-game instead of objective play.The specialists have totally ruined the feeling of this being a BF-game.And the core gameplay (spawning, weapon balance, vehicle balance, sound, a ton of unsolved issues/bugs etc etc) are still in a very bad shape, which makes the time Dice have wasted on making the specialists even worse.

@cso7777 it's the same problem with vehicles now that seats 2, 3 and now 4 in the new light tank all increase firepower for the vehicle.They've basically made it impossible to balance vehicles with this design approach.Vehicle secondary spots should be MG only like every other battlefield game.Would've helped to cut down on the complaints about ground vehicles being so annoying to infantry with the spammy secondary weapons with their splash damage properties.

And this is why imo separating them into classes wont change anything. The hero like abilities they have is what broke BF. I hate them and I surrley wont like them even after they separate them into classes.

Mackay and Sundance also take some of the luster away from the classic maps. There were places on the map that players couldn't get to, so it created natural ground pathing. If you were at a certain point, you knew that ground troops and vehicles could only attack via A, B, and C. That is out the window with Mackay and Sundance. That takes away from any type of strategy, which is what made Battlefield great. I think about a map like Argonne Forest, there are places throughout the map that were inaccessible to players, even if they are mapped as out of bounds, that won't stop players from utilizing them as avenues of attack. That would completely change that map.So if you apply that concept to all the current maps, it is a literal sheetshow. There is no way to balance that access with the map design.

@Tank2042Man Dice has kept on making the worst decisions possible on almost any aspect of the game.And now we are in the 'nerf' everything into the ground phase of things, which is very sad.Dice will not scrap the existing vehicles or make meaningful adjustments, but instead keep on nerfing them more and more.The specialists are a problem. MacKay are so overpowered on many maps (like Stranded). They can remove his ADAD-spamming, but how do they nerf his grappling hook without making it obsolete? They have just cornered themselves with the specialists.

Specialists vs Maps | EA Forums

15 Replies

cso7777
Seasoned Ace
3 years ago
The gameplay has become stupid gimmicks and unpredictable action because of the specialists. You have turrets, scatter-grenades, adad-spammers, flying people, grappling hooks etc etc which all make the game a total mess of stupid gameplay.
In earlier titles things were much more predictable, now it is just a mess of people running around everywhere on the map all the time. This game has more than ever just become one big TDM-game instead of objective play.
The specialists have totally ruined the feeling of this being a BF-game.
And the core gameplay (spawning, weapon balance, vehicle balance, sound, a ton of unsolved issues/bugs etc etc) are still in a very bad shape, which makes the time Dice have wasted on making the specialists even worse.
Tank2042Man
3 years ago
@cso7777 it's the same problem with vehicles now that seats 2, 3 and now 4 in the new light tank all increase firepower for the vehicle.

They've basically made it impossible to balance vehicles with this design approach.

Vehicle secondary spots should be MG only like every other battlefield game.

Would've helped to cut down on the complaints about ground vehicles being so annoying to infantry with the spammy secondary weapons with their splash damage properties.
cso7777
Seasoned Ace
3 years ago
@Tank2042Man Dice has kept on making the worst decisions possible on almost any aspect of the game.

And now we are in the 'nerf' everything into the ground phase of things, which is very sad.

Dice will not scrap the existing vehicles or make meaningful adjustments, but instead keep on nerfing them more and more.

The specialists are a problem. MacKay are so overpowered on many maps (like Stranded). They can remove his ADAD-spamming, but how do they nerf his grappling hook without making it obsolete? They have just cornered themselves with the specialists.
OzzLink
3 years ago
And this is why imo separating them into classes wont change anything. The hero like abilities they have is what broke BF. I hate them and I surrley wont like them even after they separate them into classes.
IzEagle
3 years ago
@cso7777 @OzzLink
It’s good to see veteran BF4 players are still active in this forum, it shows they are not disappointed yet. Although this discussion is not related to my starting topic but I like to share it with community. As I see most of BF4 players love to see a remaster of BF4 i.e. the same game but with enhanced graphic and some new maps. But I see 2042 as a totally new game which is just inspired by BF4 and will be enjoyable if a large community play it (which is not the case now).

I believe the main issue with this game is not specialists’ abilities (although it definitely need change or adjustment) because most of specialist abilities are actually the gadgets which are already available in BF4 but they are limited to a specific character now. For example MAV was a recon gadget in BF4 and could be used by any of recon characters but now it’s changed to a drone and is limited to Casper. Another example is Sentinel of Irish which was MP-APS in BF4 (for support class). I see no problem in limiting a gadget to a specific character in that class. Therefore except some new abilities (such as grappling hook) the rest are not new and they should not remove the joy of gameplay.

From my point of view these are the reasons that old BF players don’t enjoy this new game as a battlefield game:

- In all previous titles we were divided into two factions with different faces and clothes. It gives the spirit of fighting for specific nation or group and make the battle more epic or dramatic. In BF V EA starts to sell skins and many players buy those skins. Some of them were nation dependent and some were the same in all nations. It was the start point for destroying the factions for selling more skins. I understand that younger players enjoy to have nice cosmetics while playing but it could be implemented in a way that keep the factions too. In 2042 we all are Nopads and homeless so US and RU don’t care what we have wear while killing each other LOL.

- Despite all other FPS gams, BF was a game which reward you for team play. It was the reason of class definition, to force people to play as team and be rewarded by xp when they have more impact on the team performance. It’s better to categorize this discussion into two parts:

1. Rewarding the player for team play: Now the scoreboard is mostly depends on kill count not gained “xp points” so players see no reason to help the team, you just like to kill more to stand on top of this scoreboard. In addition to scoreboard they can add some other mechanism that reward the team play (similar to weakly events) for example defensing a flag as a squad for 90sec, spending 30% of battle time within 20m of your squad mates, etc.

2. Classes: returning the class system to the game is a good move and with respect to all discussions which have made in the “core feedback” I am very hopeful to see good changes in that part.

At the end I believe the best game is the game that most majority of the community enjoy it, whether it’s similar to old BF games or not. I hope to see much much players on game instead of several tries to find a robot filled match.
Adamonic
Legend
3 years ago
Mackay and Sundance also take some of the luster away from the classic maps. There were places on the map that players couldn't get to, so it created natural ground pathing. If you were at a certain point, you knew that ground troops and vehicles could only attack via A, B, and C. That is out the window with Mackay and Sundance. That takes away from any type of strategy, which is what made Battlefield great. I think about a map like Argonne Forest, there are places throughout the map that were inaccessible to players, even if they are mapped as out of bounds, that won't stop players from utilizing them as avenues of attack. That would completely change that map.
So if you apply that concept to all the current maps, it is a literal sheetshow. There is no way to balance that access with the map design.
IzEagle
3 years ago
I just tested the new Renewal map which is one of the best maps for Lis but she is still not one of best 3 specialist in this map. I personally believe that Lis to be a recon and have an idea which may make her more useful from this view. She can see damaged vehicles so she could have an option to fire at it with G-84 TGM or share the location of that vehicle with the team. This recon ability will activate the cool down of G-84 TGM.
IzEagle
3 years ago
@Adamonic I 100% agree with you about Mackay, this ability will ruin all concepts of map design. About sundance the situation is better. wing suit is something which exist in real life (despite of mackay hook) and for using of it you should first reach to a high point. Also it's replaced with parachute and you will loose some functionality of para such as aimed shooting in air or exact dropping to a nearby location. I actually like to see more specialist with wingsuit in the game lol.
Echo6Echo
3 years ago
You need to change the title of this. Yet another "Mackay is OP" thread...Angel, Paik, Falk, Crawford and Casper are all equally effective regardless of the map. If you all are getting killed by Mackay too much, slow down, stop running around in the open without checking and pay attention to your surroundings. If you're with a group, (which you should be) you'll see people dying. If you don't see who's killing them, look around a bit. If you're running around alone, well...there you go. People getting into weird spots has been a thing as long as there has been aircraft in BF. Get past it already. There are spots that you can't get to with Mackay unless you jump in, so we nerfing the hell out of parachutes too?
IzEagle
3 years ago
@Echo6Echo Thanks for advising lol... enjoy your game mackay lover