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sPoiLeD's avatar
sPoiLeD
6 years ago

AI Feedback Thread

I think there is no doubt that there is something not quite right with the skirmish AI in Tiberium Dawn. Just saying "its realy bad" would not be constructive in any way though, so i took some time to observe and test a bit and tried to put together some basic Information what the AI does and doesnt do in an attempt to help with fixing it. Feel free to add to this post if you have any usefull Information.

difficulty: Medium and Hard

Faction used for testing: GDI

Tech Level: Max

Superweapons: enabled

Gamespeed: normal


Buildings:

does build:
- 2x Barracks
- 2x War Factory
- 2x Helipad
- 2x Power Plant
- 2x Advanced Power Plant
- 3x Tiberium Refinery
- 1x Radar

does NOT build:
-Silos
-Service Depot
-Advanced Comms
-Guard Towers
-Advanced Guard Towers

Upon building an Advanced Power Plant, the AI will sell a normal Power Plant, which means there is a maximum Power of 400, which with the buildings in play is sufficient to not result in low Power. Three Tiberium Refineries means a maximum of 3000 Credits at all times (1000 per Refinery), since no Silos will be built. Buildings will be repaired if they enter the red zone. Lost buildings will be replaced if possible. Upon losing all production capabilities, the AI will sell all buildings.


Units:

does build:
-Minigunner
-Grenadier
-Engineer
-Rocket Soldier
-Scout
-APC
-Harvester
-Tank

does not build:
-Orcas
-Transport Helicopters
-Mammoth Tanks (Not possible due to tech tree conditions not met)
-Artillery like Rocket launchers (Not possible due to tech tree conditions not met)
-Commando (Not possible due to tech tree conditions not met)

Overall, the AI uses only Infantry if there is a choice(usually 10-15 Infantry at maximum) and it will replace lost Infantry Units immediately. If destroyed, Harvesters are replaced until there are three again. Lost Orca units are not replaced. If both the Construction Yard and all Barracks are destroyed, the AI will build Vehicles in a very limited capacity (2 at all times). It will mostly build Scouts and APCs, rarely a Tank.This may be due to being short on credits. Attacking Harvesters with ground Units triggers a defensive response, however doing so with Air Units does not, even if anti-air is available in the form of rocket soldiers.

On lower tech levels, this behaviour persists, with a curious exception: In a tech level 3 game the AI built way more Tanks than it did on hard, but still needs to be "forced" to do so due to lack of alternatives (all baracks and construction yard destroyed).

I know the source code is available, but I'm not a programmer so i cant comment on that front. There are a bunch of people who do though and a bunch of pull requests have already been made if I recall correctly, so that may be worth for the Team working on the game to check out.

From what i was able to observe myself aka what is written above, the AI seems to be having a kind of priority list it checks (like number of buildings, units, harvesters, etc.), but i have a feeling it gets stuck somewhere down the line? Difficultys with programming it could also have to do with the fact the "legacy" version of Tiberium Dawn didnt have AI skirmish with bases?

Anyway i hope this helps in some way resolve some of the Issues with the skirmish AI.

Cheers!

EDIT1 29.06.2020

After the initial round of testing i switched to NOD to look for differences, there are a few, but overall the result is still the same:

difficulty: Hard

Faction used for testing: NOD

Tech Level: Max

Superweapons: enabled

Gamespeed: normal

Buildings:

does build:
- 2x Hand of Nod
- 4x Airstrip
- Tiberium Refinery
- Power Plant
- Advanced Power Plant
- 1x Radar
- 4x Helipad
- Turret
- Obelisk of Light
- Sam Site

does not build:
- Temple of Nod
- Service Depot
- Silos

The Nod AI does not seem to have the same limitations when it comes to buildings, as it builds way more of everything, including static defense. On the flipside of things, i would say it builds too much static defense, to the point where it blocks parts of its own base with it, resulting in stuck Harvesters/Units and having low Power (visble by building healthbars appearing as buildings take 1 damage when running out of power). Nod-AI builds more Refineries, which means a bigger maximum amount of credits, but its also not building Silos. Behaviour for repairing/selling damaged buildings is the same.

Units:

does build:
- Minigunner
- Engineer
- Rocket Soldier
- Flame Trooper
- Light Tank
- APC
- Buggy
- Harvester
- Flame Tank
- Attack Bike
- Stealth Tank
- Attack Helicopter

does not build:
- Transport Helicopters
- Artillery
- Rocket launchers (Not possible due to tech tree conditions not met)
- Commando (Not possible due to tech tree conditions not met)
- Chem Soldiers (Not possible due to tech tree conditions not met)

Lost Harvesters are replaced until they match the Refinery count. Lost Attack Helicopters are replaced if possible. AI relies on only Infantry for its Attack force (10-ish max). Behaviour for defending Harvesters is also the same, ground Units are Attacked, Air-Units are not even if Anti-Air Units are available. You can force the building of Vehicles by destroying all Hands of Nod and the construction Yard, but the AI will only build 2 to 3 just like GDI. Air Units are used for base defense only, never to attack yours.

8 Replies

  • KEV6934's avatar
    KEV6934
    6 years ago

    IA doesn't build vehicles, except harvester, in skirmish game in tiberian dawn remastered. Is it possible to change that please? Even when I play in hard mode, IA doesn't build tanks, jeeps etc.

    Congratulations for your great job!

  • k0bra1's avatar
    k0bra1
    6 years ago
    I've complied a list of issues from a few different players. Hopefully they can be reviewed by the appropriate people.

     

    - Game still crashes for no reason. Quick matches freeze for no reason all the time

    - Fix the trucks, they currently ignore any Gems if ore is nearby. (especially bad in arena)

    - Make Allied Countries properly give bonuses (Germany is the only one that works)

    - Make Naval/Sub Pen and Fake Naval Yards not required to be killed in order to win the game. Else make them have to be built closer to shore. I'd prefer the former.

    - Tell players which map they are playing before the game loads up

    - Fix Repair/Sell Hotkey (currently it requires you to hold the key down when it's supposed to be 'toggle')

    - Increase/uncap the maximum map scroll rate

    - Have the game check for draws if players have no money, no facilities, no combative units, and the game hasn't progressed for 3 minutes.

    - Make inputs client sided, not server sided. (IE. If i click on a tank, and after the delay it moved out of the way it should still register as an attack order) This would also fix all that deselecting and inputs not going through.

    - Do whatever you need to do so tanks and units are more responsive, seems to have a delay.

    - Allow Holding Scatter/Stop to repeat that same order to the selected units.

    - Fix bookmarking position. Currently they set the bookmark with an offset of 3 spaces to the right. (so if i have a war factory on the left edge of the map) I will ALWAYS have to move my screen to be able to see that War Factory

    - Selling and repair sounds shouldn't be heard by the enemy.

    - Since they lowered the punishment for losing all powers, they are saying it's ok for them to change the game from the original. I'd like no infantry to pop out of vehicles, and have the CY always give an engineer if sold. Removing luck based elements seems like a good idea imo.

    - Super Tesla - can place a tesla on top of inf making it 2/3 times harder to kill - example: https://www.twitch.tv/docsworld/clip/ProtectiveIcyAsparagusTheRinger

    - Maps; This will be controversial, but removed Path and added Things To Come. Things To Come is so uneven. Wouldn't be too hard to edit the map so each starting location had similar resources

    - Starting locations - changed to only corner vs corner. Traditional 1v1s were always corner vs corner on WestWood online days, currently they are just random.

    Regards,

  • k0bra1's avatar
    k0bra1
    6 years ago

    Hi,

    why has my post been moved in here? 

    Only 1 bullet point refers to AI. 

  • zoolex's avatar
    zoolex
    6 years ago
    @k0bra1
    They sometimes do that, you mention one closely related point (even for a second), you'll find your post travelling. Be glad they took the time to read it and repost it.
  • GENERALZOOL's avatar
    GENERALZOOL
    6 years ago
    @KEV6934
    AI not building Tanks in TD, I did notice that, but there is a condition that causes it to happen.

    IF 'Income' = 'LESS_THAN' 'Value_X' THEN Construct 'Unit_Harvester'

    IF 'Income' = 'GREATER_THAN' 'Value_Y' AND IF 'Human_Player' owns Unit_Type = 'Unit_Tank' THEN Construct 'Unit_Tank'

    This is based upon observations of matches I've played. When the Income is between 'Value_X' and 'Value_Y' then the AI will build its base as normal, but not build Tanks. This wasn't always the case, this is a new thing.
  • GENERALZOOL's avatar
    GENERALZOOL
    5 years ago
    @sPoiLeD
    Something that can be done is Custom Map Coding. While I don't think you can play Custom Maps Online yet (let me if and when this changes), if you're only playing on your own anyway, this isn't going to be too much of an issue.

    There are .ini files that you can find in the original version of the game that you can use as a basis for editing custom maps. I personally take the approach of making Refineries able to hold more, Tiberian worth somewhat more. This generally negates most of the 'low-funds' issues the AI thinks exists. More advanced coding will get better results obviously, but if you just want a bit more heading your way, then editing those two things is a good start.

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