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Re: 60 FPS is faster also on traction

In the extensive tests made by Gillon he didn't find any traction improvement from lowering FPS, just more traction stability. The major differences of low FPS is how much you can cut corners and how little curbs impact the car, conversely however lower FPS has a negative impact on suspensions and force feedback, hence you feel much more bumps on the road and there's more latency involved when using a wheel.

Overall higher FPS gives a much smoother feel on the driving, but lower FPS has the huge benefit of being able to cut corners and going over kerbs without being jumped around. In traction there can be some difference but it is mostly inconsequential.


18 Replies

  • @Amioram Yes, traction stability, traction improvement, whatever. This small stability improvements are huge thing since we are chasing 0,01 in every lap. I am playing at high level, my times are in top 50 in time trial list so It changes everything... I hope they also fix this not only kerb effect.
  • @Maegnys I guess it depends what the root cause of the bug, was there just some part of physics related to kerbs that was tied to fps and not running the thread that where most of the physics are vs. everything related to physics were linked to fps, in which case they wouldn't be able to fix just kerbs unless it's some hack.

    I wish CM/devs would actually explain the root cause and the fix on some level and be open about it. Would be super interesting to hear and in best case scenario, it would ease doubts whether there is other similar unlaying issues remaining. Without that, there is always some more doubt, did they fix this properly, or is it just some hack fix etc.

    btw. Unless we have a robot/automation running the game and doing the tests with lower fps and higher fps with exact same inputs on every test run, I don't really trust claims that traction is more stable or less stable without hard facts from tests done like that.

    Gillion had some really clear findings though, which seem to be obvious and leave less doubt. But this traction part wasn't one of them... that could be just placebo effect and reason could be just in tiny variation in inputs (fps will most likely affect input lag as it usually always does, so it would create variation in itself)
  • @Ileleee I agree, but I am racing in a league where all drivers are chasing top 50 in time trials. And the common idea is that traction is better with 60 FPS. Yes, FFB is not smooth (it is stronger btw), yes the smoothness of the game is very bad but still if it gives you even extra 0.05 second per lap, then we have to play with 60 FPS without doubt.
  • @MaegnysWhen they will fix the 60 fps issue with the kerbs they will also almost surely fix all the other issues tied with lowering/rising the fps on the physics' model, since they are all likely correlated. There are clearly some parts of the physics' model (as suspensions) that are still tied to fps instead than running at a constant hz (as the other parts are); they are much probably old remnants of code for when all the physics model ran on fps.

    IMO the new patch is taking longer just because they are fixing this issue (along some others) in preparation of the esports championship.

  • @MaegnysI hope too, since this issue has ampler ramifications than it may seem, since it also, for example, impacts the VR experience because the less refresh rate a headset has and the less fps you will have and the less fps you have the more latency and shaking you will experience given this issue.

    One has only to try to run a G2 at 60hz instead of 90hz to notice how huge the impact of fps has on how smooth the experience feels just because of the impact on physics. At 60hz there's so much latency and shaking to make you disoriented in just a couple of minutes; it's almost impossible to play at 60fps in VR because the impact of low fps on physics is even more evident there.

    So this issue of part of the physics being tied to fps has ramifications in a lot of things, many of which we probably don't even know and yet they impact the driving experience.

  • thiago_ssj's avatar
    thiago_ssj
    Seasoned Scout
    3 years ago

    oh my god, that´s is true? i´m always played on 120hz, and have a little difficulties with traction (traction off on mine g27)

  • Ileleee's avatar
    Ileleee
    3 years ago
    @thiago_ssj If there is effect to traction, it's not very obvious or signifcant, unless you are talking really small margins where it would matter (if it's not placebo or explained by something else).

    I played for few evening using 60fps and then changed back to 200fps+ and frankly, I didn't notice any change with the traction. I'm not top-100 TT player though. Higher fps should give you less input lag, which is always a plus in most games.

    With kerbs though, it's is quite clear that there has been an issue.

    @Amioram if it's some old code remnant, it would probably happen on F1 2021 as well. I still don't know has anybody tested it with that game. Gillon suggested in his video about possibility for it be related to performance and having to make the game run on PS4/Xbox one level hardware... so that's one theory




  • @Ileleee wrote:

    I played for few evening using 60fps and then changed back to 200fps+ and frankly, I didn't notice any change with the traction. I'm not top-100 TT player though. 


    Alex Gillon is though and as noted above he didn't notice a difference either.

  • Nuvolarix's avatar
    Nuvolarix
    Seasoned Ace
    3 years ago

    This is the law of retaliation for me, I've played at 60 fps for years, as soon as I switched to a better monitor here we are! 🥳

    I didn't try a full comparison on my side (playing on PS5 at 120 fps currently), I must admin I 'felt' something 'easier' at 60 fps but I immediately started to 'suffer' the lower refresh, my eyes no longer accepted it (incredible to say because when I went to 120 I didn't feel such a difference improving), so I gave up, even if honestly half a tenth in Time Trial maybe it makes me enter the Top 100 on some tracks, so I hope it will be fix soon.

    Regards,
    Nuv

    P.S.: should the leaderboard be wiped after the fix, for example in Monza?

  • @Ileleee Yes, I'm pretty positive it happened also in F1 21 (and even earlier) but it can be that other factors made such behavior less prominent and hence nobody noticed. It can be that with the physics model of the cars this year the problematic becomes much more noticeable than before.

    I sincerely doubt they created some new code in 2021 that tied physics to fps, as it wouldn't make any sense.
  • thiago_ssj's avatar
    thiago_ssj
    Seasoned Scout
    3 years ago
    @Ileleee whats difference on brakes? i feel the brakes are so weak in f1 22, i need brake sooner

    in time trial i don´t see problems, the car are more stable than in another methods because don´t have tyre wear and track and tyre temperatures is fixed on perfect target all the time
  • ScarDuck14's avatar
    ScarDuck14
    Legend
    3 years ago
    @Ultrasonic_77 Has he only just discovered he’s in the top 1% cause he seems to be shoehorning the fact at every opportunity. But the OSD amount off time and effort and detail he puts in his videos. I expect his he’s tried and tested it every game car and sim rig setting and setup to perfection
  • Ultrasonic_77's avatar
    Ultrasonic_77
    Hero
    3 years ago

    @ScarDuck14 wrote:
    @Ultrasonic_77Has he only just discovered he’s in the top 1% cause he seems to be shoehorning the fact at every opportunity. But the OSD amount off time and effort and detail he puts in his videos. I expect his he’s tried and tested it every game car and sim rig setting and setup to perfection

    I was just thinking of the video where Ben Daley was driving on Alex's rig and the TT leaderboard positions they achieved popped up. I've not watched all of Alex's video though so I may have not come across the 'shoehorning' 🙂.

  • mariohomoh's avatar
    mariohomoh
    Hero (Retired)
    3 years ago

    @ScarDuck14I don't actively follow Alex but he is certainly one of the better youtubers in F1 games out there. If I'm not mistaken, he generally favors offline single player modes. There was even a panel on Overtake channel with him and Kiefer way back in June this year and they commented on their preferences.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gku9Vevlwco

  • ScarDuck14's avatar
    ScarDuck14
    Legend
    3 years ago
    @mariohomoh Thanks for putting that video up BFF. Really good video. Esp as both off them reinforce a lot off my thoughts 😀
  • Ileleee's avatar
    Ileleee
    3 years ago
    @thiago_ssj This is getting a bit out of subject, as I haven't heard anyting about braking being affected by the FPS problem.

    Anyway...

    I don't find the brakes clearly "worse" compared to 2021 myself, maybe a bit more challenging, but it does vary a lot depending are you playing a mode with upgrades and what upgrades you got (without ABS at least). I have had car where braking felt impossible to do well in my team mode..

    I think the game is not giving good indication when you are locking up you tires during braking (at least when using wheel). So not slowing down enough could be because of that, you just haven't realized it. It's a been a while since 2021, but I definitely have harder time finding the right way to brake in every situation and avoiding those lock ups, but when I do, the braking distance doesn't feel shorter, on the contrary.

    Remember to downshift as well when you start braking to get some engine braking help as well (you want to run higher gears in general in this game, so it's not that huge help though).

  • ScarDuck14's avatar
    ScarDuck14
    Legend
    3 years ago
    @Ileleee Think some or more when braking press and hold Pedal/trigger at 100% for to long. I use pad and find optimal brake pressure is around 60-80% even when using abs.. Along with not modulating the way deal/trigger or trail braking.

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