Re: NHL24 Be a Pro AI

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@NeonSkyline21 wrote:
@NeonSkyline21damn no one cares? sad lol

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@NeonSkyline21 

I don’t think no one cares 😉 I do care. I’m just not playing BAP right now. Well at least I haven’t touched BAP in 23, spend the whole year trying to get the most realistic gameplay possible. When I played "BAP" I made my own version playing player lock, but that’s for another topic…

That being said, lot’s of AI behaviour can be tweaked with sliders and also player edits. I have a couple guys over at Operation Sports that are playing BAP with my setup and they are having a really good time… Here’s a quote from one of them:

"I've just realised something that's missing from your gameplay ...

That stupid situation where, when pressured, the AI retreats all the way back. I haven't seen it in the BaP games I've played nor in the videos you've posted. 😎😀

Wow! That's amazing. It was one of the main problems that put me off this game.

The big question is why. What have you changed that stops the AI retreating all the way back to their own net?

I doubt it is sliders, I'm guessing it's one of your player edits but could be the combination of both.

Again, WOW!!"

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So if you wanna give my setup a try go ahead and maybe you will love what you see from the AI 😉 I also never called for a pass when BAP or locked, it makes it more realistic and if you get in a good spot on the ice, the AI will pass it to you 😀

pernellkarl076-nhl23-ultra-realistic-gameplay-setup 

Also, me and the boys are about to deliver another bomb 💣 in the gameplay department that we will deliver sometime next week 😀

Have fun !

Peace ✌️

@NeonSkyline21 

Thanks for trying my sliders 👍😀

That being said, just one question for you, did you also played with the updated roster ? 

The AI is very customizable when you edit players a certain way, trust me. We’ve changed so many things in this game that was downright frustrating…

In our extensive testing and stuff under the hood, nothing is left untouched.., For example this is a screenshot of things used to monitor new DMEN and Goalies edits…

At a different time in the testing, we looked and focused at our DMEN, where they actually made a bonehead play in our zone or anywhere on the ice. Should they have made a pass here ? Did they see the winger near the board for a breakout pass ? Did they have that deer caught in the headlights on that play ? Should they have made a shot here instead of passing and playing ping pong for nothing ?

So yeah, so much stuff gameplay wise that can be adjusted in the finest details, but it takes lots of patience, lots of craziness also 😉😆

We will be delivering our FINAL update pretty soon and in my books it will be a game changer for years to come 😀

The fact that you say that so much can be fine tuned to play like a hockey game and proper AI except it takes lots of time and patience is absolutely pathetic for this company and developers. You have probably poured loads of hours into testing and tweaking and that says more about how bad the AI is than any kind of fix.

The AI is awful in this game, plain and simple. They should at the very least be able to play positional. I can't say how many times I've tried to play be a pro and the AI is absolutely lost on the ice. I've had 2 on 1s with an AI team mate and he just literally skates away from the play without going to a line change, he littlerally just skates away.

I've tried your sliders and I think you've done a great job on them and happy they work for people but there is far too many bobbled easy passes that should never bappen so I've given up on those. NhL 23 is a dead game anyways and we will see what 24 brings but if anyone is expecting the AI to play like hockey players then ypu will be fooling yourselves. 

I think what it comes down to is people have either adapted, found settings to tamper with, or play online. I think if you want the best experience in the game it's gonna be found in EASHL. Is it perfect? Nope. You will also have lots of people play out of position and stuff but it feels more genuine and you typically feel less cheated as there are less and less CPU players. Offline modes are always gonna take a backseat to the online modes. I agree they should be updated but at this point I think most people are coming to terms with the fact its just not a big emphasis for them and online is what they're interested in.

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@rsandersr47 wrote:

I think what it comes down to is people have either adapted, found settings to tamper with, or play online. I think if you want the best experience in the game it's gonna be found in EASHL. Is it perfect? Nope. You will also have lots of people play out of position and stuff but it feels more genuine and you typically feel less cheated as there are less and less CPU players. Offline modes are always gonna take a backseat to the online modes. I agree they should be updated but at this point I think most people are coming to terms with the fact its just not a big emphasis for them and online is what they're interested in.

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@rsandersr47 

This is your opinion and that’s fine. But I know lots and lots of people that wouldn’t touch online with a 10 foot-pole…

And could you show me a video of EASHL of 5 vs 5 that looks like real hockey ? I would be seriously interested to watch that. Thanks !

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@rabid55wolverine wrote:

The fact that you say that so much can be fine tuned to play like a hockey game and proper AI except it takes lots of time and patience is absolutely pathetic for this company and developers. You have probably poured loads of hours into testing and tweaking and that says more about how bad the AI is than any kind of fix.

The AI is awful in this game, plain and simple. They should at the very least be able to play positional. I can't say how many times I've tried to play be a pro and the AI is absolutely lost on the ice. I've had 2 on 1s with an AI team mate and he just literally skates away from the play without going to a line change, he littlerally just skates away.

I've tried your sliders and I think you've done a great job on them and happy they work for people but there is far too many bobbled easy passes that should never bappen so I've given up on those. NhL 23 is a dead game anyways and we will see what 24 brings but if anyone is expecting the AI to play like hockey players then ypu will be fooling yourselves. 

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@rabid55wolverine 

Can’t speak for BAP, but I do play Position Lock 95% of the time and saying that the AI doesn’t play their positions properly is not accurate at all.. Most of the time, it’s the user that controls the said player that is out of HIS position, that’s what's gonna mess with the AI, cause it’s gonna try and cover for the player that left his spot on the ice… And I’ve never seen a player just skate away in all my time with the game.

Thanks for trying out my sliders 👍 That being said it’s a combo of many things including the very important roster… I see bobbled pass maybe at a 10% rate and most of the time it called for that like in real hockey. The player on the receiving end is sometimes not in an ideal spot and disposition to receive the puck cleanly and that plays a big part, like it should.

When you say that NHL23 is a dead game anyway, I couldn’t disagree more, cause for a bunch of us, it has never been more alive 😀

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@PernellKarl027 wrote:

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@rabid55wolverine wrote:

The fact that you say that so much can be fine tuned to play like a hockey game and proper AI except it takes lots of time and patience is absolutely pathetic for this company and developers. You have probably poured loads of hours into testing and tweaking and that says more about how bad the AI is than any kind of fix.

The AI is awful in this game, plain and simple. They should at the very least be able to play positional. I can't say how many times I've tried to play be a pro and the AI is absolutely lost on the ice. I've had 2 on 1s with an AI team mate and he just literally skates away from the play without going to a line change, he littlerally just skates away.

I've tried your sliders and I think you've done a great job on them and happy they work for people but there is far too many bobbled easy passes that should never bappen so I've given up on those. NhL 23 is a dead game anyways and we will see what 24 brings but if anyone is expecting the AI to play like hockey players then ypu will be fooling yourselves. 

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@rabid55wolverine 

Can’t speak for BAP, but I do play Position Lock 95% of the time and saying that the AI doesn’t play their positions properly is not accurate at all.. Most of the time, it’s the user that controls the said player that is out of HIS position, that’s what's gonna mess with the AI, cause it’s gonna try and cover for the player that left his spot on the ice… And I’ve never seen a player just skate away in all my time with the game.

Thanks for trying out my sliders 👍 That being said it’s a combo of many things including the very important roster… I see bobbled pass maybe at a 10% rate and most of the time it called for that like in real hockey. The player on the receiving end is sometimes not in an ideal spot and disposition to receive the puck cleanly and that plays a big part, like it should.

When you say that NHL23 is a dead game anyway, I couldn’t disagree more, cause for a bunch of us, it has never been more alive 😀

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It's usually the player that plays out of position that causes the AI to be out of position. This is such an EA statement. I have asked this numerous times and get ignored on almost every single time but I play RD almost exclusively unless I'm goofing around. I've played BAP and locked in games as RD and EVERY single game, im on the boards with the puck on the right corner and yet the LD is almost standing in my skates. This is constant.

Another scenario, on the breakout. I'm backing up, controlling my side and the LD yet again goes from. The left side over to the right for no reason what so ever and causes a double team and the puck goes to the middle and a breakaway. This happens quite a bit. Every mode, every game.

If you aren't seeing this, you must be playing a completely different game. The AI is at best mediocre and again the fact that you have to pour in hours and hiyrs of testing and tweaking says everything about how the AI plays in this game. Just because you can set sliders to make the game "like real life" to a minor extent means absolutely nothing to be honest and please don't think that is me taking anything away from what you do making sliders that work but EA is the one that needs to put hours and hours into the game to make the AI work properly and not do stupid things over and over.

Just the simple fact that you have to make the rosters different too and change ratings says a lot about where the game is at. 

As far as a dead game goes, yes you might play it a lot offline but the majority has vanished from this game and will be firing up the new one. There might be 10 to 15% still playing 23 but that makes this basically a dead game. 

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@rabid55wolverine wrote:

 

The AI is at best mediocre and again the fact that you have to pour in hours and hiyrs of testing and tweaking says everything about how the AI plays in this game. Just because you can set sliders to make the game "like real life" to a minor extent means absolutely nothing to be honest and please don't think that is me taking anything away from what you do making sliders that work but EA is the one that needs to put hours and hours into the game to make the AI work properly and not do stupid things over and over.

Just the simple fact that you have to make the rosters different too and change ratings says a lot about where the game is at. 

As far as a dead game goes, yes you might play it a lot offline but the majority has vanished from this game and will be firing up the new one. There might be 10 to 15% still playing 23 but that makes this basically a dead game. 

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@rabid55wolverine 

First of all no game's AI is even remotely perfect out of the box. Every game from 2K to EA had flaws in them. But I saw something I really liked about 23 in general and that’s why I spent hours on end coming with these changes. Was it my job to do this ? Of course not. But I first started this journey when I saw that I could really change some AI behaviour when editing specific values for the players. Especially the DMEN… Then it became an obsession, cause the more I found stuff, the more the game played like I always dreamed a hockey game would play 😀

We always have to keep in mind that this game's DNA has always been on the Arcade side, so making it play closer to a SIM is no easy task indeed… I can’t even play the "default" Simulation sliders from EA for more than 5 minutes. That’s why the major edits on players needed to be done, to tame that wild arcade horse that’s under the hood….

I just played a game at LD locked and kept a very close eye on my AI buddy on the right end side, and I never saw what you see ? One time we switched position when he came out the bench first and he covered for me on my side. And after we switched during the play when it was the right time to do so. Like you will see often time in real life.

And I won’t be just saying words, I will shortly post an unedited period of me playing LD locked and we can analyze their play if you want ?

That is why NHL23 will become (has already become) my GO TO Hockey game for years and years down the road 😀

@PernellKarl027 

Just for my own curiosity, what kind of player editing do you do? I’ve seen you mention that you reduce specific attributes for the players, so do you use the same reductions for every player, or do you go through and adjust every player specifically?

Does the overall ratings of your players differ much from EA’s ratings?

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@Beauts90 wrote:

@PernellKarl027 

Just for my own curiosity, what kind of player editing do you do? I’ve seen you mention that you reduce specific attributes for the players, so do you use the same reductions for every player, or do you go through and adjust every player specifically?

Does the overall ratings of your players differ much from EA’s ratings?

 

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@Beauts90 

Well the player edits follow a certain path/formula to equally either go down or up in certain categories… So that the OVR fluctuates at the same rate for every players around the league.

Player Edits goes hand in hand with the game sliders you have no idea. 

The overall ratings differ in a way that the DMEN got a major BUFF compared to EA. The DMEN have been left to dry ever since NHL21 IMO... Maybe something went wrong when the XFACTORS made their appearance ?

The forwards also received a BUFF in the DZONE to help to counter that arcade/offensive DNA like I was talking about earlier…. It is now fun to play Defense and you feel that your teammates got your back also.

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@PernellKarl027 wrote:

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@rabid55wolverine wrote:

 

The AI is at best mediocre and again the fact that you have to pour in hours and hiyrs of testing and tweaking says everything about how the AI plays in this game. Just because you can set sliders to make the game "like real life" to a minor extent means absolutely nothing to be honest and please don't think that is me taking anything away from what you do making sliders that work but EA is the one that needs to put hours and hours into the game to make the AI work properly and not do stupid things over and over.

Just the simple fact that you have to make the rosters different too and change ratings says a lot about where the game is at. 

As far as a dead game goes, yes you might play it a lot offline but the majority has vanished from this game and will be firing up the new one. There might be 10 to 15% still playing 23 but that makes this basically a dead game. 

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@rabid55wolverine 

First of all no game's AI is even remotely perfect out of the box. Every game from 2K to EA had flaws in them. But I saw something I really liked about 23 in general and that’s why I spent hours on end coming with these changes. Was it my job to do this ? Of course not. But I first started this journey when I saw that I could really change some AI behaviour when editing specific values for the players. Especially the DMEN… Then it became an obsession, cause the more I found stuff, the more the game played like I always dreamed a hockey game would play 😀

We always have to keep in mind that this game's DNA has always been on the Arcade side, so making it play closer to a SIM is no easy task indeed… I can’t even play the "default" Simulation sliders from EA for more than 5 minutes. That’s why the major edits on players needed to be done, to tame that wild arcade horse that’s under the hood….

I just played a game at LD locked and kept a very close eye on my AI buddy on the right end side, and I never saw what you see ? One time we switched position when he came out the bench first and he covered for me on my side. And after we switched during the play when it was the right time to do so. Like you will see often time in real life.

And I won’t be just saying words, I will shortly post an unedited period of me playing LD locked and we can analyze their play if you want ?

That is why NHL23 will become (has already become) my GO TO Hockey game for years and years down the road 😀

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Ypu obviously seem to get upset when I'm talking about the game and you miss my point each time so for that, I'm not really going to do anymore back and forth with you. You like 23, good for you, enjoy. I can't enjoy a garbage product that someone needs to work hours and hours to get "right"

As far as you not seeing what I'm seeing, again, good for you. I'm happy for you however this isn't just a me problem and has been reported with video numerous times. They don't care, never will and because of that, this series will never be better than the past games due to game being the same garbage AI year after year.

Now to the first thing said, NBAs AI is 100x better than EA. So is MLB the show. What is the commen thing in both of those games?  Neither is made by EA. I am not asking for perfect AI, im not even asking for great AI I am simply asking for AI that doesn't do stupid things on a daily basis every time you boot the game up. You're fine with that, great again I am happy for you. If you think you've solved the AI nonsense, again good for you. Happy to hear it. 

None of that changes anything to what I have said about the AI being garbage. They want to grow this game and series, AI needs to be better, plain and simple. Has to play like an actual NHL product without editing otherwise it's simply not what they should be doing. As far as arcade goes, I don't care about arcade if the game plays like actual hockey. 

One last time, the AI in this series is and has always been extremely sub par. Good on people for enjoying it but I guess I expect something playable when you pay close to 100 dollars. 

So that said, im done debating anything because you're just getting defensive over your sliders and edits and are missing the point. Enjoy 24!

@rabid55wolverine 

Sorry if you think I missed the point 😕

I get that you and the original poster are saying that the AI in this game needs work. I 100% agree with this. This AI and settings out of the box is SUB PAR. It has been for years and years.

The only point I was trying to make, it’s that with a Taylor made ROSTER and SLIDERS this can play really CLOSE to the real thing. Was just trying to help…

So the biggest gripe I have. Going off of what you are saying … is everything you said is correct. The CPU players being all over your space and not having the smarts to shift positioning with you, even if you’re playing rather conservative. (I usually BAP with a defensive defenseman). So my issue, isn’t JUST that… it’s the fact that we know for certain that EA and NHL creators have the ability to create solid AI gameplay. There’s proof.. and it’s across the ice when you play a CPU team in BAP specially in the playoffs! You ever notice that the puck movement is fluid and smart for the CPU team? On All Star or Superstar, I’ve lost series’ 4-2 or 4-0 many times before because the CPU team waxes my Teamates. It’s actually realistic and I enjoy that aspect. But again… it begs the question, why are CPU teamates so frustratingly bad on BAP and EASHL? I believe it’s EA’s way of suppressing user success. Users are inherently smarter than AI so we will always figure out how to beat them consistently. So they make your players stupid, to level the playing field. How bout just make the goalies better and fix the glitchy dumb stuff that the game allows? Start there.