Scoring

"I do understand the need for a better defensive"

Yes, I think as a community most NHL players lean more offensively and have more talent in scoring goals.. that being said I think the game tends to lean more offensively (although I have found this game does a much better job at allowing defensive players to pick off passes and I feel more involved on defense, poke checking is mostly in a good place, i think net battling feels a bit clunky at times) I think icon passing and perfect puck handling just gives the game more of an offensive lean, and then there is the issue of builds. The defense is always at the mercy of the offense. If they have "wheels" at the wing with 99 speed and then a powerforward with a really good reverse hit/ net front capabilities at center, you gotta make a build fast enough to control wheels but defensively sound enough and durable enough to withstand any physical play of the center. If the defenseman underestimates either in what they can do the problem then falls on the goalie. I personally think wheels was just a bad idea altogether but that's a different issue.

I REALLY like the high danger shot percentage idea. Maybe even a shots saved above expected metric. I'm unsure how well the video game could correctly identify these metrics though (not trying to shame the devs on that, I'm not even sure how analytical people get all of their numbers sometimes)

"Passing: I have seen passes that are so fast due to being able to skate around with the R2 button held the entire time"

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the passing speed tops out, I also think the pass seems to cancel out if held too long. That being said, I personally dislike the icon passing. In the real NHL passes are missed a lot, I thought things seemed better when players were forced to aim their passes (that's a different argument though) I just think for icon vs manual passes there should be a tradeoff. (No chance of saucer with icon)

"Covers"

I agree with everything you wrote here! This is the kind of stuff I made this post for. This is why I believe goalies need the most attention in the game right now. Some of the animations just seem too wild, misplaced, or unrelable.

4 ability goalie I could get behind. I think humans could use a boost whether in stats or abilities to close the gap with cpu goalies. There was a time I felt the answer was to make cpu goalies worse to incentivize more humans.. I think the real move is to find more ways to improve humans. I think giving them a bit more attribute points or another ability would be cool. 

I think another thing EA should REALLY consider bringing back (and adding onto) is that training camp mode. In fact I would have a whole practice mode built into EASHL where different drills can be custom built, players could play on offense or defense, etc. I would also include a goalie training course. Have a real life goalie and perhaps a couple of the best EASHL goalies give tips/ suggestions as to how to play the position. After the game have the coach report card and have it suggest diff drills to improve their game. They give up multiple 1T then have it suggest a drill in defending that or what attributes/ abilities may help balance out their game better. I've said it before and I'll say it again, this game is SO much better with human goalies. Let's do everything we can to incentivize people to play that position and for clubs to actually seek them out. 

I never play goalie so I'm not really sure how much of an impact a 4th ability would have. Personally, I'd rather just see the existing issues with goalies get resolved. As long as a 4th ability wouldn't make goalies OP somehow, it seems like it could be a good addition. This is pure speculation though. The best I can do is pass on your feedback.

EA_Aljoany thoughts on this^ would love to hear your opinion

EA_Aljo wrote:

It was intentional this was removed. Unfortunately, I don't have any other details. While there have been a few requests for it since it was removed, there hasn't been a lot of talk about it. I'll pass on the feedback for you.

I too miss this mechanic especially since the R1/RT button is just a duplication of the dive. But if it were removed because it caused an issue with something else I understand.

I have to be honest, I do think with the implementation of abilities weve gone from having to watch 1 or 2 xfactor players to watching all five and with that goalies have not been able to keep up. Its like facing 5 mcdavids, or 3 mcdavid forwards and 2 makars on defense. I do understand the need for a better defensive game by most players but I still feel as if goalies are fighting a losing battle, and at the end of the day if the majority of the community isnt expert defense players, goalies just arent gonna have a fighting chance. From a video game perspective it would be nice if a goalie could make up for this if he were to be a great goalie.

FourZeroVI wrote:

Was thinking about this some more as well, because of the attention given to defense and goalie, it would be nice to add an additional statistic to the intermission screen such as High Danger Chance %. Basically if there are 10 shots and 8 of them are within the High Danger Chance area, this statistic would be 80%, similar to the faceoff and pass % statistic. This will at least give some information and attention that could be brought to whether or not the defense is doing an adequate job of protecting the center of the ice.

I'd also like to requote this idea as I think it is not only important for the gameplay and evaluation of gameplay but to help alleviate and share some of the toxic blame that comes naturally  with a competitive game. I truly believe that the reason you may see less and less human goalies is because of how much blame a goalie takes on and no matter what you try to say, its always going to be 5v1.

Screens: As shown in a few clips Ive seen, as well as utilizing gold x-ray, screens are happening almost every play and on every shot, even breakaways, I think the only solution to this is to limit the effects these screens have. Again with all of the boosts given shooters, yes goalies are given boosts as well but youre taking them away in the very same sentence with things like screens.

Passing: I have seen passes that are so fast due to being able to skate around with the R2 button held the entire time that no human goalie can react to it so goalies are forced to try and cheat the play or preemptively move as the pass begins (basically making an educated guess that the pass is gonna happen) in order to even have a chance at a save.

Covers: I'm not sure what the issue is with covers but what I can tell you is that whatever causes goalies to attempt a cover, miss, and sometimes throw it into their own net needs to be addressed. This includes post play, which im sure everyone has seen, where a goalie is attempting to cover the puck that is just outside the post and instead looks like he's playing the game hungry hungry hippos instead.

At the end of the day I understand the balance of wanting a simulation hockey game as well as a fun to play game. A potential balance to having 5 skaters with 3 abilities a piece to worry about would be to give goalies a 4th ability. Not sure how that would go over but I think when you add something like 5 players on the ice all with x-factors, you need to make the goalies a little more powerful especially in WOC because youre seeing more fire power on the ice in front of you than a typical nhl game.

Again, I’ll ask.  Can you honest say you’ve never seen your club human goalie let up a goal that wasn’t their fault and wasn’t the result of an unnecessary animation?

Of course. I've said this many times, the game isn't perfect. Goalies are probably the hardest position to make 100% accurate. They're limited by the animations available to them. Obviously, a real goalie isn't doesn't have a such a limited set of moves. As with the game in general, it continues to expand over time as we adapt to new technology. 

In regards to “paddle down”.  It’s been removed completely starting with last years game.  It’s impossible to not notice it missing.  There are only so many buttons on a controller.  It’s obviously not on the goalie controls screen.  So where the F did it go and why?  Actually I just checked the goalie controls screen.  Desperation Dives (hold) is mapped to R1 AND Square.  Pad stack is O.  So wtf?  Why is DD’s mapped to two buttons?  

It was intentional this was removed. Unfortunately, I don't have any other details. While there have been a few requests for it since it was removed, there hasn't been a lot of talk about it. I'll pass on the feedback for you.

Or, send me a temporary friends request and play a couple of drop ins and/or clubs with me.  Then you can see for yourself that at least one of those animation goals (with no fault of mine) will happen within a game or few.  They’re just so inconsistent and that’s the problem.

I know this wasn't directed at me, but I'd run some games with you. Just let me know.

I don't think anyone is saying goalies in our game never make mistakes. I've had many frustrating moments where they let in something super weak or flop around unnecessarily. While there are times games are won and lost because of this, in general, in my experience, the majority of games are being won by the deserving team. That doesn't mean they had more ToA and shots. Any shot on net has the potential to score. You see this in the real world as well. Something people don't mention here is that the majority of goals are scored on good shots. However, the ones against us are typically the ones we remember the most.

thebrazenhead75 wrote:

I don’t post clips when certain aspects/problems should be obvious to those that play.

This is just a copout. An excuse for not wanting to put any effort into actually getting to the root of whatever problem you may have.

thebrazenhead75 wrote:

Can you honestly say you’ve never seen a goalie make an unnecessary animation that resulted in a goal?  I definitely can’t.  

Brother - I've never once said "goalies don't make unnecessary animations".  What you're failing to grasp is that when animations are selected, there's a logic behind them. Posting a clip would go a LONG way in helping the developers determine the logic that went into the wrong animation selection.

Continuing to refuse to provide these clips, which is incredibly easy, is confusing for me. If you actually wanted things to be fixed, you should be providing examples.

thebrazenhead75 wrote:

I’m obviously not a developer and don’t know how things work or don’t but what I know is that these animations shouldn’t be happening as frequently and as inconsistently as they do.

As I said above, providing clips gives decs insight into the game logic in the specific scenarios you lay out. I don't understand why this is so hard to grasp. 

Copping out by saying "certain aspects/problems should be obvious to those that play" is so frustrating. It's like you just want people to agree with you rather than actually work towards a solution.

thebrazenhead75 wrote:

 I just want a solution.  

Then do what's being asked of you to play YOUR part in that solution. Notice how nobody is disputing your claims but rather we're almost begging you to simply provide a single clip? You're the one arguing with everyone about what you're experiencing and we're just asking for a clip to actually see it and you're just refusing and insisting everyone should just know what you're talking about. 

thebrazenhead75 wrote:

Again, I’ll ask.  Can you honest say you’ve never seen your club human goalie let up a goal that wasn’t their fault and wasn’t the result of an unnecessary animation?

I've literally never said that.

thebrazenhead75 wrote:

It is so obvious there has been a decline in the amount of human goalies this year and that’s including clubs. 

Show us your metrics being used to come to this conclusion.

thebrazenhead75 wrote:

 It’s impossible to not notice it missing

I play with elite goalies who did not know it was even a thing.

thebrazenhead75 wrote:

I have a couple of clips of NHL goalies using it to help prevent 5 hole goals saved

Nobody is arguing with you about whether Paddle down is a legit goalie action. 

thebrazenhead75 wrote:

send me a temporary friends request and play a couple of drop ins and/or clubs with me.  Then you can see for yourself that at least one of those animation goals (with no fault of mine) will happen within a game or few.  They’re just so inconsistent and that’s the problem.

It would be much easier for you to simply utilize the in-game capture feature of your console and post a link to the capture here. 

thebrazenhead75 wrote:

Actually I’m about to hop on for tonight so I’ll record a couple of games and then post them back here when I have time.  Then you can dissect them all you want but I already know what you’ll probably say.  

I can't wait.

Actually I play both drops and clubs as I’ve stated before.  I play with A LOT of different players.  Some of the best, elites, above average and more.  I’ve played with elite league goalies (when I play D) too and actually there are a lot of Elite league goalies that do play drops.  How do I know this?  Because I’ve played with them and have conversations with them in game.

Again, I’ll ask.  Can you honest say you’ve never seen your club human goalie let up a goal that wasn’t their fault and wasn’t the result of an unnecessary animation?

It is so obvious there has been a decline in the amount of human goalies this year and that’s including clubs.  If there was a way to check the leader boards of total club games played as a human goalie last year at approximately this time compared to this year, I’d bet last year would be a lot more.  

In regards to “paddle down”.  It’s been removed completely starting with last years game.  It’s impossible to not notice it missing.  There are only so many buttons on a controller.  It’s obviously not on the goalie controls screen.  So where the F did it go and why?  Actually I just checked the goalie controls screen.  Desperation Dives (hold) is mapped to R1 AND Square.  Pad stack is O.  So wtf?  Why is DD’s mapped to two buttons?  

I have a couple of clips of NHL goalies using it to help prevent 5 hole goals saved on my FB account.  I’ll see if I can post them here without it being linked to my actual FB account for personal reasons.  

Or, send me a temporary friends request and play a couple of drop ins and/or clubs with me.  Then you can see for yourself that at least one of those animation goals (with no fault of mine) will happen within a game or few.  They’re just so inconsistent and that’s the problem.

Actually I’m about to hop on for tonight so I’ll record a couple of games and then post them back here when I have time.  Then you can dissect them all you want but I already know what you’ll probably say.  

I don’t post clips when certain aspects/problems should be obvious to those that play.  Can you honestly say you’ve never seen a goalie make an unnecessary animation that resulted in a goal?  I definitely can’t.  How anyone didn’t see this while testing and before the release of the game is beyond me.  This wasn’t a problem in previous years so something was changed that is causing it this year.  I initially thought it was caused by goalie fatigue/the pressure system so I boosted the appropriate attributes yet the problem still exists.  I tried changing my style of play for a few games yet the problem still exists.  I’m obviously not a developer and don’t know how things work or don’t but what I know is that these animations shouldn’t be happening as frequently and as inconsistently as they do.

Furthermore, I’ve been playing this game and goalie long enough to know when I make a mistake (human error) or not. I do have my share of bad games but overall I’m a very consistent player.  These animations are very inconsistent though and happen regardless of me playing great, good, average and below.

It’s not like I’m making this crap up because I have no reason to.  I just want a solution.  

thebrazenhead75 wrote:

Anyone that plays this game can easily notice way LESS people playing G.  Drop ins are one example.  It takes me longer now to find games because I’m backing out of lobbies that don’t have a human goalie.  More CLUBS are running games without a goalie.  Anyone that plays this game daily during peak hours will notice and agree.

That doesn't make sense. Lots of people play all modes in this game and aren't tracking the popularity of goalie. You may pay particularly close attention, but again - you are only playing drop-ins. Playing drop-ins is not something elite, league-level goalies are doing. 

How would you know how many clubs are running goalies compared to those without if you're not steeped in club games multiple days a week?

thebrazenhead75 wrote:

Once again with the video clips?  Waste of my time when it’s so obvious to anyone that plays the game consistently who will see all the goals caused by these unnecessary animations.  

Providing a simple video clip of what you deem an "unnecessary animation" would give the developers the exact insight they'd need in order to fix the issue you have. Why keep refusing to do that? 

thebrazenhead75 wrote:

That’s the #1 reason people are complaining about in game and on social media platforms.

The #1 reason why people complain on social media is because they get 'likes', 'retweets' and generally positive affirmations from like-minded, social media addicted users who have disdain for the game. Conflating social media interactions with general consensus is a recipe for being incredibly misinformed. Not just in the context of video games, but as a whole; social media incentivises the cesspool of human emotions. Never use it as a metric for anything.

Plus, algorithms keep you locked in echo-chambers. So, if you spend a lot of time discussing the game and how bad it is - the social media gods will ensure you're locked in an environment where that opinion is praised. They want you to keep coming back 

thebrazenhead75 wrote:

 Doese EA need video clips (proof) of sticks going through players, the boards etc?  No.  Why?  Because it’s so obvious to anyone that has been playing the game for years and video clips aren’t needed. 

Providing clips is not just for the development team. Often times, clips can showcase human error which can then be resolved; resulting in a player getting better outcomes in their games because they provided a clip where they were making a mistake.

In the context of sticks through players, boards and subsequent interactions with the puck - the clips posted on the old forums and the developer interaction and explanations led a lot of us to get a much better understanding of the mechanics at play and the logic being used to present those mechanics in a nuanced and balanced way. I use to LOVE those developer interactions.. but I digress...

thebrazenhead75 wrote:

Anyone doesn’t need to know anything about goalie controls to know how idiotic removing one tool while duplicating another is.  I don’t know enough about bathroom renovations but I know how completely IDIOTIC it would be to remove a toilet paper holder with another soap dish.  If I hired someone to renovate my bathroom and they did that then I would immediately fire them.  The only reason I can think of why nobody at EA has responded to this is because they don’t want to admit to such an idiotic mistake.

I don't use the paddle-down mechanic but that likely says more about my goalie skill than anything. That said, are you sure there are two buttons in the goalie controls that do the same desperation save? My understanding is one would be for stacked pad save, the other for blocker/glove desperation save, but I could be wrong.

In any case, regardless of the duplication of the desperation save mechanic and the omission of paddle down - there are a lot of goalies (yourself included) that are having a lot of success playing goalie in NHL 25. As someone who plays on a club who strictly uses a human goalie, we have not noticed at all a decline in human goalies. Looking at leaderboards, there are a lot of very skilled tendies out there.

thebrazenhead75 wrote:

Keep defending EA and its many glaring mistakes and all the other problems with this game.  The majority of the people that play this game know the truth.  

I am not "defending" EA because that implies you are attacking them, which I'm sure you're not meaning to do. 

I would absolutely love to see some examples of the "unnecessary animations". It would really go such a long way in helping identify the issues. I think you'd love to contribute to the betterment of the game, no?

thebrazenhead75 wrote:

I NEVER said I was playing “amazing”.  Don’t use words that I didn’t use!

My apologies for using the term 'amazing'. You're right, you did not use that exact terminology but in my defence, an accurate summarization of your description of yourself goaltending would include the word amazing, but again.. not a direct quote. My bad. 

Once again with the video clips?  Waste of my time when it’s so obvious to anyone that plays the game consistently who will see all the goals caused by these unnecessary animations.

Video clips are the best way to bring about change. This is an incredibly dynamic game. We can't just be told something happened and reproduce it. There are a lot of other details normally and a lot of people aren't going to recognize those. Our developers can watch a clip and have a general idea of what the issue is. That also doesn't mean it's easy to fix though.

Doese EA need video clips (proof) of sticks going through players, the boards etc?  No.  Why?  Because it’s so obvious to anyone that has been playing the game for years and video clips aren’t needed. 

We don't need clips of the stick going through the boards. As has been said many times, that is intended. Unfortunately, we're not at a point where players will perfectly avoid objects with their stick. Currently, we would see more issues if we didn't allow the stick to pass through objects/players at specific times. Again, video helps a ton. This is why it's so heavily requested.

Keep defending EA and its many glaring mistakes and all the other problems with this game.  The majority of the people that play this game know the truth.  

The majority of people playing this game don't post on the forums. It's a very small percentage of the playerbase that does. I'm not saying everyone outside the forums thinks the game is perfect though.

We've never said everything is working as intended. We would love for there to be no issues. It would be amazing if that were the case. The reality is that there are bound to be bugs, glitches, animations that don't always line up or wrong animations playing, etc. Hockey is incredibly complex. It's pretty much impossible to perfectly replicate this sport in a video game. It has it's issues. It also still provides a very competitive and fun game for many of us. People are entitled to defend it just as they are to be negative about it. Especially when we frequently see people blaming the game when it's more about how they're actually playing. Again, the game isn't perfect, but neither are humans. We all make mistakes. This is a hyper-competitive community though and not everyone is going to be accountable for them. Video tells us when an issue is legitimate or if it's human error. We're obviously no strangers to our own mistakes here. I'm not saying there's no fault on our end either and we want to be accountable for those. I have said many times over the years here when something's an issue on our end.