Forum Discussion

NitroXIII's avatar
NitroXIII
Rising Novice
9 days ago

Some "good" X-Factors do literally nothing. (Proof)

Ankle Breaker and Puck On a String animation comparisons.

Linked above is a quick short I made comparing two animations that you would expect to work with the respective abilities, based on the ability descriptions. A loose puck deke with and without Ankle Breaker, and a Toe Drag with and without Puck on a String.

For the comparisons, both builds have 90 deking, the clip on the top screen has no deking Superstar or Zone abilities, and the bottom screen has the Zone ability. I then overlay them as best as I could to show that the animations start and stop at the same time.

This isn't the only test I've done, it's just the only easy to consume comparison I've created, but I went through and counted frames for multiple different animations with multiple different deking attribute breakpoints and it was consistent that the only thing that seemed to affect animation speeds was the deking attribute itself, and not the X-Factors. With Puck on a String I tested just simply moving the puck from backhand to forehand, same frame values regardless of X-Factors.

My assumption for a while now about Ankle Breaker is that if it does have an affect, it only has an affect on CPU Players, but I'm not really sure how to test that. If that is the case, it being included in World of Chel is pointless for like 99% of scenarios. As for Puck on a String, I have no idea if this does anything online or offline, in both the online Free Skate and the offline Team Practice I saw zero difference in deking speeds with or without the abilities, this seems like it's probably a bug.

One more thing I noticed about another ability some people think is really good, Shutdown, is that it doesn't seem to behave how you'd expect based on the World of Chel Description. The World of Chel Description says it helps in 1-on-1 situations. However, if you go into the Create-a-Player it says it helps defend rush chances. I tested in Free Skate and in the Pro Am (I haven't tested this in actual online games yet), but it seems how it works is that Shutdown will pretty much always activate if the puck is NOT in your Defensive Zone. Once the puck is carried into your Defensive Zone, it will continue to activate for a few seconds, regardless of how many players are near you or in your own zone, but after that few seconds pass, it doesn't seem to activate again until the puck is cleared. This leads me to think it was designed with the Create-a-player description in mind, to defend rush chances. If that's the case, a simple update of the description in World of Chel would at least fix any confusion.

Anyway, hope this helps shed some light on some things that I think might be bugs that could have gone under the radar and can lead to some tweaks and confirmation that abilities are at least helping in some way/doing something akin to what their description says.

  • hiperay's avatar
    hiperay
    Rising Rookie

    I feel a big problem is that the dekes are “forced animations”. By this I mean that when we start a deke, there is a set path for the puck and skater based off of the factors of their speed and direction. This means that there is no way to alternate the aggressiveness of those dekes. You can’t one touch further up or shorter down on the right stick to modify the skaters deke angle and therefore, their final location. So a deke like the between the legs, would require you to be at a moderate speed in 24, or it would fail as the puck would miss their stick. The way to change this would be to have multiple endpoints based on where we aim our right stick when the deke is performed as mentioned above.

     The next problem than becomes that if a skater is in ANY part of its path, there is no logic for them to account for this while performing the deke and so the puck bounces off a skaters stick thats mid hip check or something similar. This aspect however, MAY BE FIXED  with the new reactive actions! Now we might have that logic when performing dekes so the skater adjusts their pathing based on the state of the defenders stick and skates. If this does happen, deking can get a massive buff to it and I am all for seeing dekes be more successful again.

    A third problem to dekes is regarding the state a player is in when performing the deke. Dekes that separate the puck from the carrier (like a one touch, windmill etc) cause the skater to go in a “non possession” state. During this short window of time, they don’t have “control of the puck” and therefore, are immune to tripping calls (except for animations like dive and shot block). So when you go to perform the one touch and your skate incidentally comes in contact with another’s skate or stick, it causes the deke to fail when really they should be getting tripping calls. If you can get body checked when the skater is in this state, why can’t the skater draw a trip?

    NitroXIIII am glad I’m not the only one labbing all this stuff like a mad man in practice mode. Keep doing what you’re doing! 

    • NeonSkyline21's avatar
      NeonSkyline21
      Seasoned Rookie

      LOVE that someone else is thinking as deeply about the gameplay systems as I am lol. MORE NUANCE would be GREAT for this game. Especially things that add nuance while keeping the same level of accessibility, like what you mentioned. 

  • NitroXIIII just want to say people like you are great. Really love that you're digging into this stuff to give us more information. 

    IMO, "Ankle Breaker" is pretty much useless for in-game situations and should be retooled to work like a "Crosby badge." What I mean by this is that it should improve a player's ability to hard-cut 180 degrees in the opposite direction (a la Crosby famously breaking MacKinnon and others' ankles in the corners) while carrying the puck. It should allow a player to do this a few times in a row. 

    The following would require some work and alterations to the skating engine but might be interesting to read: you could make it so that these 180-degree cuts are an actual skill that players have an attribute for. With the existence of a stat like this, you could then have attribute thresholds where if a player has a low enough stat, repeated cuts back and forth would result in the player losing balance and stumbling (getting their ankles "broken"). The final result would be a player with the ankle breaker badge doing what the badge's name means: excellent cuts that cause the opposing player to stumble if they try to keep up.

    I hope at least someone takes the time to read this!

    • KlariskraysNHL's avatar
      KlariskraysNHL
      Hero

      There was a release back on the  PS360 version where you could wipe out.  It was not liked very much because people felt they lost edges on places they shouldn't and it punished defense mostly for defenders  And it was never brought back again.  So I'd assume that is why it never returned again.

      • NeonSkyline21's avatar
        NeonSkyline21
        Seasoned Rookie

        I vaguely remember that! Was it NHL13? They did a NUMBER on the skating that year in general... it was pretty bad. Do you remember exactly what caused it and what the wipe-outs looked like? I've somehow completely erased memories of this feature from my old brain lol. 

        I feel like there could be a better way to implement it, though. Especially with the modern skating engine and animations. NBA2k does "ankle breakers" somewhat similarly except the badge itself causes the opposing defender to fall if they try to track your movements and you pull off a good enough dribble move. 

        EDIT: Yeah it WAS NHL13! I just scoured the annals of YouTube for footage of it and found this clip (good old Rammer on the sticks lol): NHL13 Losing an edge

        After watching that clip, idk man... I feel like it would have been a good feature if tuned right. A player trying to cut backward after going max-speed and without doing a full-on hockey-stop cut (which I referred to previously in the Crosby example) SHOULD lose their edge if they're not an elite skater. This obviously would need to be tuned so that it ONLY happens during ridiculous top-speed turn attempts. A completely player-controlled situation. 

        That aside, what I was suggesting wasn't that. I was talking more about repeated cuts back and forth and back and forth. 

  • EA_Aljo's avatar
    EA_Aljo
    Icon for Community Manager rankCommunity Manager

    Hi there. Thanks for going through all the testing. For Puck on a String, there's a 7% boost for the Superstar ability and a 10% boost for the XF. We are looking into this though thanks to the clip you provided. I'll update when I have some news.

    For your Ankle Breaker test, did you test this at top speed?

    In regards to the Shutdown description, it's actually on rush chances. The WoC description is incorrect.

    • NitroXIII's avatar
      NitroXIII
      Rising Novice

      Wow, I appreciate the openness/feedback. I did not test Ankle Breaker at full speed, I should have considering that's what the description says, that's on me, I'll have a look tonight. Not sure if you can answer this, but do you know if you're supposed to be hustling at full speed for it to activate, or if it can activate as long as you're at or above your maximum skating speed without hustling? That might be too much info for you to reveal though, and if it does in fact work, I should be able to figure that out with my testing.

      Also, that 7%/10% info is really valuable, I wonder if that wasn't supposed to be shared, but it kind of opens up some questions for me to review some testing I did on the shooting traits. I came to the conclusion that they boosted power by about 5 and 10 points respectively, but a percentage makes sense too, I'll have to look at my data and see if that also fits.

      Oh, also, just in case, all of my videos were taken in Free Skate (from the chel loadouts menu), however I did pull off that same Toe Drag animation in a Drop-in with the same 90 deking and Gold Puck on a String and, from my perspective anyway, it counted out to the same Frame count for the animation, however, it's possible I'm not measuring the animation properly maybe it starts/ends earlier or later than I think, but at least the parts of the animation I'm measuring from/to should be consistent.

      I'll stop nerding out for now. Thanks again.

      • EA_Aljo's avatar
        EA_Aljo
        Icon for Community Manager rankCommunity Manager

        Ankle Breaker should active at full speed without hustle.

        I made sure I could share that 7% and 10% detail before I did so that's not a problem.

        Appreciate all the details. Feel free to report back how your tests turn out. The videos really help so if you feel like it's not working as it should, get another and I'll run it by the team. Thanks!

    • hiperay's avatar
      hiperay
      Rising Rookie

      If you are able to give it here, then this should be available online or in game as public knowledge what each perk does. While that description did sound vague as well as a "7% boost" means what exactly? The deking stat? the success of the deke? Either way, I'll take these numbers and work with it over the vague words like "greatly increased".  

  • Been asking for clearer, more definitive, "explain it to me like I'm 5", explanations for all skills/traits for years now - Didn't even think to compare cpu and human only aspects of them.

    Lol people already min/max their builds so I don't see why they want to bottleneck us just for the sake of it

    • NitroXIII's avatar
      NitroXIII
      Rising Novice

      Yeah, it's pretty easy for good players to eventually settle on what obviously works well and what doesn't, there's a reason leagues ban things. But sometimes there can be a placebo effect, like I'm wondering if Puck on a String has been placebo for a while now for the people who use it.

  • Thanks for your comparison and review!

    I too think it would be good for EA to make an official guide to skills and abilities. That is, how to use them correctly and in what cases. Because at the moment our experience of use is only based on the description of these skills.

    • NitroXIII's avatar
      NitroXIII
      Rising Novice

      I think I've heard them say they don't plan on doing that as it will just lead to people micro-optimizing their builds, which I guess is fine, that's their choice, but in the end, good players will figure out what's strongest either way.

      At the bare minimum though, it would be nice if there was a way to get a bit more information about how some of the situational ones like Shutdown activate. Would also be cool if they could prove they all worked lol. It would also be nice if there are ones that only work against CPU Players for some reason that that was specified and they were potentially removed from EASHL, but I don't know if any of them work like that, that's pure speculation on my part.

      • KidShowtime1867's avatar
        KidShowtime1867
        Hero

        I think I've heard them say they don't plan on doing that as it will just lead to people micro-optimizing their builds

        You'd think maximizing user engagement would be a goal. 

        The lack of clear, concise and simple explanations about all X-Factors leads me and many others to simply not care about them. I apply the ones I think will do something to better my playstyle in WoC, but I never really notice them. 

        Same with OVP - I try to recognize who has what XFactor, but I hardly factor them into my gameplay because I'm just not sure what most of them do, how to activate them, etc.