Balance: Both teams

Many classes have very poor variants, a lot of which you haven't mentioned. Not every Scientist needs to be throwing out 100 damage per second. Compare Dr. Toxic with Druid Rose, for example. It isn't fair to allow one team to have such burst damage across the board whilst one team doesn't have any.

I understand you have a grudge against Rose, but when you compare her to the Engineer who can throw out 40s each shot, she is an absolute joke. As many others have stated, having CC on a character and next to no damage is a bit pointless. I didn't play Rose, and I don't think I ever will. I have however mastered all but one Engineer, and almost all my Scientists. Due to this knowledge I have I can tell you that classes that have easy killing potential are mostly zombies. Whether that's due to bugs, glitches or server lag, it's a matter of fact.

I would prefer Sunflower to have a Shotgun, double movement speed and more health just to be able to survive a gunfight with someone. Even with this a Scientist would still get the jump on her every time and win. Playing her with a keyboard and mouse makes things easier but using her with a controller compared to a shotgun is well, pretty one sided. If she's healing or reviving someone, and she has to defend herself, or her team mate then what use is a little machine gun with no CC? It would be nice if she had some sort of stun mechanic, shield perhaps, or even a mech. For you to say she needs nothing shows pure lack of experience with this class.

Also, it is cute that everyone is making their own balance thread. I'd rather someone make their own that to try and impost their ideas into mine, but good positive / criticism helps me change my own and understand the opinion of others.

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Gone are the days where you use to be able to drop your heal pot, dance around it and duel the zombies. I have over 50 hours experience with this class, and well imagine if the Scientist could do nothing much heal, and tickle the enemy with a little gun.

Again, this is just my opinion. You don't have to agree with it, or even like it. 🙂

Peashooter: more or less agreed. Some variants need a buff.

Sunflower: Totally against you tooth-and-nail. I want a shotgun for Sunflower. I always see people saying "She's suppose to be support" as a defense for her sticking to her horrible primary. Well a shotgun would give her BETTER support. Picture a Scientist with Porcupine healing an All-Star, he gives no "ranged support" (put that in quotes because the Sunflower "ranged support" is the worst in the game, IMO) but gives close-range support, which is better because you need to be close to heal. Give the Scientist the Sunflowers primary and 10/10 times people will go in on him since it would be an easy kill.

For anyone doing well with Sunflower in the healing category, yeah, I guess it's easy enough to pull off, seeing as she CANNOT do anything else. "But she's suppose to heal." so does the Medic in TF2, but he can hold his own and actually fight back.

Chomper: Takes forever digestion and can be killed in the "eating animation". Sure you can't revive people after they died, but the timer to respawn is shorter if you are chomped. You also only get 1 kill out of Chomping someone, just to end up dying because you are now a huge, slow moving target that needs time to digest.

You mention he's an assassin, I would like to see him more as a Spy from TF2 (again making a comparison seeing as both games are team based shooter.). He's an assassin that can insta-kill back-to-back enemies without having that wait period of killing the last person(Zombie).

Cactus: Yes, she should have a way to get on rooftops as most classes can. I would also add that her recoil gets tweaked as well. IMO, it's easier to land shots as any other class then it is with Cactus.

Citron: I would also like if his shield took more punishment, it feels like it gets taken down FASTER then it takes putting up.

I'm fine with the damage, if the skill is to mimic an EMP, it shouldn't do any damage at all. I would like it if it actually shut-down the mech for much longer.

Don't have electric so can't say.

According to everyone, because I don't have, all Party skins are horrible now.

Corn: Is probably the best the plants have at the moment. If he would get a buff, it should be for his Pop's Corn skin. it does as much damage as his other skins (minus party?) but only shoots in bursts of 2.

Rose: Needs buffs. I did not play her pre-patch, but everyone is saying she was broken OP...wish I was able to see it, seeing as she is now broken unable to do anything.

Foot soldier: Agreed

Scientist: Variants need nerfs. At the moment, Porcupine's Revenge dominates, followed by Marine Biologist. He easily gets in your face with teleport and can place down healing stations for his allies so he can go in while healing.

All-Star: Is alright where he is, IMO. His Imp punt does seem to travel a shorter distance then in the first game though.

Engineer: Also fine where he is. His mines are for protection, mainly for his tele. Stun duration is also fine because, again, it's mainly for protection, not for offense. Big Bolt should be better then Pea Gatling and Sunbeam, it's a freaking turret. My only gripe with engi is that Frosty fan freezes way to soon, like 2- shots and you're frozen.

Deadbeard: Fine as is, except for Shark Lazer which does need a nerf in damage.

Super Brainz: Electric beam nerf, yes please. Also reduce the range of all his beam in general or make them do less damage. He's meant to be an up-close fighter not an up-close fighter AND ranged ADC.

Imps: I only play Gardens and Graveyards, so I would say that only 1 or 2 mechs should be able to cap.

Grav nade need less AoE.

Nerf health to 60. He's already a hard enough target to hit.

Z7, don't have, much want.

Thank you for attempting to respond to me in such a kindly manner however I do believe that the statement that you 'disagree with me in general' was not needed and can come off as a bit rude. But I will forgive you for it only this once and if it continues I will simply block you to avoid further conflict..  Allow me to touch on a few things that I would like to place my opinion on.

I did not say that the Toxic needs to dish out 100 plus damage per shot, simply that it needs a damage upgrade as in comparison to the ones that can do such it is quite underwhelming. Druid Rose has her very fast fire rate. 

I do not have a grudge against Rose, I did however not enjoy the time where she could destroy and home in on any zombie map wide. I would like you to take note that I offered what I believe to be a solution to the engineer and have touched note on the zombies having mainly damaging classes. I do not compare the two as their only similarities are building teleporters. 

I actually stated that I had little experience with the class. I normally only play as Sun Pharaoh or Metal Petal. When I do very well on them with the Sunflower objective. I keep my team alive and help them damage zombies. She has a very fast fire rate, extremely accurate, and is already quite fast. Everyone opinion is different but I think that the Sunflower was designed mainly for support, not damage. We need to look at the game as a team game. It is not about a Sunflower be able to solo anything she wants but about her to keep her team alive and them repay her by keeping her alive. 

I do not understand why you say it is 'cute' that others are making balance threads as they have been around far before mine, or even yours for that matter. I am not trying to balance classes I have no experience but pitching general ideas that I believe could help. If you re read what I put then you will see I mentioned that these are my opinions from playing the game as many classes. My experience with the original classes goes back to the first game in which I played as them all. 

Yes, I play as a Chomper a majority of the time because I love it and find it extremely fun and very rewarding. However, that does not mean that I do not play as other classes, simply they are played less. Seeing as how on days off I love to play this game for a long amount of time, my time as other classes is not so little when you view it in a wider scope. I am not a player who wishes an easy time as I am unsure where you get that from in this post. I ask that you do not throw around assumptions. 

Thank for you for your constructive criticism and Happy Easter to you if you celebrate it. 

Sunflower- Part of my main reasoning for the no shotgun is to try and keep the classes different on each side. I think a way for everyone to be somewhat happy is to create a Sunflower variant that has a shotgun attack. It could also be a trial and error so if PopCap considered it, this will be a trial and error to see how people like the variants attack. I thought of an ability similar to the Uber charge in Team Fortress. Instead of a heal, it links to a plant allowing no healing, but added health, protection and damage. Nothing to severe but something noticeable. 

Chomper- I have seen instances in which the chomper seems immune very temportarily during the eating animation. I am uncertain if this is a glitch. Something I forgot to add was Chomper should stop Twister and Impkata when starting the chomp animation. Makes no sense why they remain spinning. Digestion upgrades for me have helped a bunch as chomper and there resides a lot of obstacles to hide behind. The Spy would be amazing to have but if it were instant kill, then I feel he might be too OP. Goop a group then destroy them all in seconds. The chewing is also a nod to the original PvZ tower defense game. 

Cactus- The recoil is very true, even deadbeard has little to no recoil allowing for constant shots. 

Citron- I like your idea more of no damage but stunning longer. When they were telling everyone of it, they called it the bane of Mechs which is outright a lie now. 

Corn- I thought he did 3 burst shots? Maybe I am just bad at the corn lol.

Rose- Be thankful you weren't there. Her homing on moonbase could basically hit the zombies who were sniping far in the back and would curve builds. Teams consited of 8 roses and zombies could not leave their spawns.

Scientist- Agreed.

Super Brainz- I was hoping instead of a damaging ability he wold like pull someone towards him like a 4th move but have a hidden cooldown. But a Super Brainz beam wide weakening sounds good. Except toxic lol, his is bad. 

Engineer- For Engineer, I just felt like he should have been more support this game as too accommodate for the plants having two support and zombies having basically all attackers.

Imp- Z7 is amazing, I think you can upgrade to deluxe for like 10 dollars and still get it. 

Chomper: Takes forever digestion and can be killed in the "eating animation". Sure you can't revive people after they died, but the timer to respawn is shorter if you are chomped. You also only get 1 kill out of Chomping someone, just to end up dying because you are now a huge, slow moving target that needs time to digest.

You mention he's an assassin, I would like to see him more as a Spy from TF2 (again making a comparison seeing as both games are team based shooter.). He's an assassin that can insta-kill back-to-back enemies without having that wait period of killing the last person(Zombie).

you obviously dont know how to play the chomper lol i rarely die in defence why? cause i use STEALTH  to my advantage i dont go into hordes of zombies killing one and going hey guys shoot me free kill! no thats * stupid and youre a * idiot for doing that the only time i go into a group of zombies is to kill off the bigger target 9 times out of 10 is either the imp or scientist otherwise i stick to my base where i belong and kill anyone who enters like YOU should be doing in defence

on the attack however why the hell would you use the chomper unless its to tank damage or guard objectives

@JarlAdalbert

Going to edit my post, you're absolutely right.

And going to take it easy on the forums now, tired of saying the same thing over and over again, would be nice to see all the bugs and glitches fixed and see how that plays out before giving proper balance changes. Chances are, there will be another set of bugs that come with whatever they do next.

By the way, my comment about more threads was sort of aimed at you. I mean you've made two similar ones, sort of...

http://answers.ea.com/t5/General-Discussion/Lets-talk-balance/m-p/5248109#U5248109

http://answers.ea.com/t5/General-Discussion/Leave-the-Chomper-alone/m-p/5246491#U5246491

But if you wanted to start fresh, then don't mind me.

I'll repost what I had up on a similar thread as it covers this too. Apologies and have a happy Easter.

QoL fixes:

- Add a/move the respawn barrier for Zombies on Herbal Assault maps (Moon Base Z, Zomburbia) on the first point so the Zombies cannot literally Spawn Camp

-Reduce effectiveness of Husk Hop on barreled Deadbeards (Seriously, why does that ignore the damage resist? He's firing bullets, not busting a bunker)

-Chomp IMMEDIATELY stops Turbo Twister or Impkata

-Fix the Burrow camera as well as its general usability

-Fix the wonky hitbox on the "Parrot Drone"

-Add new, varied animations for Cosmic Brainz's melee attacks. He REALLY shouldn't just have ONE animation for each stage of charge makes his attacks feel stale and static.

Peashooter:

Mostly fine. A few tweaks for a few Variants though.

-Buff the Commando pea's RoF or Damage. (see THIS thread for more in depth ideas)

-Buff the projectile speed for the Electro Pea so he's usable.

Sunflower:

-Slight hp buff?

-Buff the Alien Flower's damage, possibly the damage the spore clouds do.

Chomper:

-Increase burrow time slightly?

-Slight Damage resist when chewing.

-Burrow hides Chomper's icon from his enemies during and a few seconds after exiting.

-Make the Toxic Chomper usable! Buff his DPS at the very least. (or his damage aura)

-Chomp Thing could use some love in the DPS department for his Health.

-Give a light heal per bite for Chompula?

Cactus:

She doesn't need a bloody shotgun people! (Besides, you pretty much got that with the Petrified Cactus)

-Drastically increase needle damage to enemies at close ranges

-Lower the scope-in speed slightly (More dramatically so for the Camo Cactus)

-Increased needle travel speed so less Target leading

-Add a light damage resist ability under the tallnut slot for offensive purposes?

-Increase clip size for Camo Cactus or decrease her reload speed.

Kernel Corn:

-Increase move speed slightly.

-Reduce the damage or fire rate of the BBQ Corn - it should be a SIDEGRADE, not a straight upgrade from Stock.

-Increase functionality of the Mob Cob's penetrating shots. Make the Kernels explode in a light cone behind maybe?

Citron:

-Increase Peel Shield's effectiveness slightly

-Slight duration increase in the Orange/Frosty beams?

-Buff the damage of the Electro Citron's uncharged shots (Four damage is NOT okay)

Rose:

-Buff hp by 25 again

-Slightly increase homing at close ranges (Not necessary if she gets her HP back)

Scientist:

He's actually fine for the most part. He just seems terrifying because he wasn't used much in GW1 - and the current Superhero heavy meta lets him slip by because of all the confusion.

-Reduce the Zoologist's clip size by two. (Not entirely necessary, but I think he needs a little more added risk)

-Reduce the Marine Biologist's Fire Rate and Ammo Count

Imp:

Slightly increase the cooldown on the mech. (I'm not talking about duration - but the time before he can call one in)

Deadbeard:

-Make his hitbox a little more forgiving when targeting him. (I have no difficulty with shooting him, but some do)

-Nerf Captain Sharkbite's total ammo count, scoping speed, and reload speed. He shouldn't be able to play just as safe as Stock.

-Increase the ammo count of Flameface and Cpt. Cannon - buff the damage on both their hilariously bad close range attack variants. 

-Increase functionality of Flameface's penetrate attack.

-Possibly make Cpt. Cannon feel a little less clunky by buffing his splash radius?

Super Brainz:

He should be a Melee focused character with a weak, supplementary ranged attack. Even Superheroes should have a weakness or two after all!

-Reduce Max HP to 175

-Reduce Damage/Duration of Super and Electro Brainz's beam. (possibly increase melee damage as a result)

-Reduce the Damage of Cosmic Brainz's "blaster" to 9 or 10, (reduced duration as well) increase uncharged fist damage, reduce time for charging fists.

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You provided a lot of interesting points, MrBays. I see a few of them as unnecessary, but I see where you're coming from on some of them.

Toxicologist/Physicist are variants you don't see too much - although I kinda have a soft spot for the Physicist. I think they perform their niches better in this game thanks to the engine, but they don't have much flair to them. Buffing them would probably be overkill, as much as I'd like them to see more use.

The Tennis Star's weakness is that his weapon overheats quickly. Not as much as the Hockey Star, but fairly quick. His arcing can be unusually precise at times and his damage also seems to suffer a bit more from falloff. As he's quicker than his kin, it'd be somewhat fair to see his max hp get reduced to 175, but it's not a necessity.

Personally, I think the new Engine did Imp Punt a lot of good. I seem to get more predictable/consistent results than in the first game - but yes, sometimes bizarre things can still happen.

You're welcome~ and Happy Easter!

Sunflower: Some say that she should have a mech =D I like this idea~ As for the buffing beam, that would be...ok, once the game is balanced, Throwing that in now would probably break something :P Also, someone had an idea of Sunflower having the shotgun when un-zoomed and her "smg" while zoomed, would this work better?

Chomper: I have noticed this, though I feel as if it doesn't apply to me -_-

I don't have any of those upgrades for him because...well he's bad. (IMO)

If he were to duplicate how the Spy insta-kills, yeah, I can see that as OP. If only because of the goop. Otherwise, maybe not. Both have an "invis" of sort and a "back-stab". But then the Spy's ranged game is much better as for the Chompers close-up game bieng much better.

Goop seems bugged atm. I know he chews because of the classic PvZ, just to keep him doing it for so long in a "Warfare" type game instead of a "tower defense" seems a bit off.

Corn: Only played as that variant once, seemed he just shot once per arm :P

Rose: That sounds to good to be true. I WANT to see that happening, especially now with the Zombies dominating.

Engi: Feels like a support to me. Maybe tone down his ranged damage?

Imp: I know I could get it that way, but I'm not to keen on DLC when the game was released not to long ago. If that's the only way to get Z7, then ya dun *** it up Popcap!

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@nightshadow989 wrote:

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Chomper: Takes forever digestion and can be killed in the "eating animation". Sure you can't revive people after they died, but the timer to respawn is shorter if you are chomped. You also only get 1 kill out of Chomping someone, just to end up dying because you are now a huge, slow moving target that needs time to digest.

You mention he's an assassin, I would like to see him more as a Spy from TF2 (again making a comparison seeing as both games are team based shooter.). He's an assassin that can insta-kill back-to-back enemies without having that wait period of killing the last person(Zombie).

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you obviously dont know how to play the chomper lol i rarely die in defence why? cause i use STEALTH  to my advantage i dont go into hordes of zombies killing one and going hey guys shoot me free kill! no thats * stupid and youre a * idiot for doing that the only time i go into a group of zombies is to kill off the bigger target 9 times out of 10 is either the imp or scientist otherwise i stick to my base where i belong and kill anyone who enters like YOU should be doing in defence

on the attack however why the hell would you use the chomper unless its to tank damage or guard objectives

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No I don't, because I don't play him, because he's terrible, IMO.

So I shouldn't run at the Zombies spawn or a group of Zombies as a Chomper? Holy ***, GENIUS! Wish I knew that before I had already done it 50 times and not learned my lesson in GW1!

on attack, why use Chomper ~period~