Its simple...More people like zombies and those people are typically more *le about playing if they don't feel they have an advantage.How can you balance cactus and pirate? Pirate snipes better than any cactus yet has shotgun for close range and multiple abilities for dmg mitigation to capture objectives and avoid chompers. Even his bird is better lol. If you tried giving cactus moves like this zombie players will say cactus is op and just leave the game EVEN if Pirate remains the better sniper with on par abilities. And why would the devs design them like that in the first place? Pretty much every zombie character in game has a larger hit box than any plant character. Just easier to use do damage and kill with.The typical player in this forum will write that a specific zombie can do this or that and that makes him better than its counterpart on the plant side, but then In the next post say they don't want anything to really change.They will tell you straight up that, ya Allstars bomb is better, or ya, Superbrainz is kinda op with ranged and close abilities and kill instantly plus 200HP, Ya... AC engineer can freeze in 1 or 2 hits of his 17 magazine, and ya his defense turret is better than roses, and ya the electro brainz is insanely stupid strong and sure lil drake is stupid op, and ya too many mechs means instant capture for multiplayer and sure a Allstar tackle takes 80% of a plants life and sure scientist is a support class but he can kill 5 plants in 5 seconds.... BUT!!!! game is pretty balanced right now so they should only give rose 25HP and lower the arc dmg on electo brainz or the game will be unbalanced to Plants.You notice that they will NEVER say HOW this will make it unbalanced, just that it will in some magical way.

@Unfadeable777 Zombies were originally designed to be the aggressor and Plants were designed to be more defensive in GW1, because that was their intended roles for Garden and Graveyards.So when I first heard about the Plants being more on the attack, the first thing that came to my mind was finally the Plants may get some new offensive abilities this time around. boy was I wrong.GW2 is a different kind of beast and it now pays to be the agressor in this game. However since Plants were never intended to be play that role you are now seeing the flaws in their original design. This can ofc be rectified with new abilities and such, so fingers crossed we will get something like that in this new update.One thing that puzzles me still is why when knowing that the Plants were weak offensive did they choose to add another intended support class to the Plant's side as a new character. What the Plants needed was a high burst damage DPS character class which could go to toe with the Scientist in damage and versatility.For the love of god give me Ghost Pepper in GW2 so that she can show you exactly how it should be done.

So wheres the plant that has low health, has high damage, has a mech, has a gravity bomb, double jumps, ability with 100% accuracy. The imp has all those and is abused ever since its health was boosted to 75 lives. Zombies that need nerfing are the imp and pirate also the electro brainz.

With Rose nerfed zombies have quicly risen once again to being the overpowered side.Why they upped imp to 75 health was beyond me he was already an OP class great speed, snipe and damage, and impediment with gravity ball followed by the most tank high damaging mechs. Being low on health and vulnerable was his trade off for the mech not that his speed doesn't counter.Drake Imps mech should reduce his health. Zombies already have All-Star and Super Brains on 200 health as a tank now a mech 300-450 HP whilst plants have only the Citron with 200 health and the Chompers just behind on an average 175 that is 2-3 1/2 vs 1 3/4 tanks.Top 2 classes that need a nerfSharkbite far too great of a range and too high damage that supersedes any cacti, and Electro brains 15 damage to all surrounding targets on a continuous beam are you mental the kinetic is ridiculous 2 seconds and it equals death to any group of plants, the damage should be direct damage to the target and low kinetic to surrounding targets like any other electric class and the kinetic to not be as continuous as the beam no other electric has this its single shot kinetic damage.Next 2 on the list Stenchy that fast fire rate enough to easily contend with prenerfed rose with toxic not to miss splash is a hard combo to beat. Zoologist is very overpowered in close to medium range but if you are on your toes can kill him early and avoid. Whilst we are at it Scooba soldier is pretty OP too.BBQ Corn and Drake are annoying as hell its not so much the class as it is the fire damage rate as fire has been an overpowered class since PVGW1 the Fire Chomper is still the very powerful. Toxic Pea is still as fearsome as number 1.One class that puzzles me Chomp Thing I don't get his 50 health reduction from the rest of the Chompers he doesn't have any additional damaging benefits if not less... there is a few across class character balances that still don't make sense.The cacti drone is * in comparison to the parrot which has 20 health and is highly manoeuvrable compared to garlic with its 5. Also another complaint Eggsplosion is instant as Corn Strike is delayed. Then think about Rose a "support" now nerfed in comparison to an engineer for teleporter the engineer has high damage splash, turret and stun mines to help him build and defend a TP the Rose has none of that you can maybe slow them for a few seconds and goat them which they can just charge you anyway to stop TP being built.

That's one of my biggest complaints. How freaking annoying is it to be killed by an OP electro brainz/fire imp, etc. by a player who's had him mastered for the last 2 months. I don't think I've ever been killed by a mastered sunflower or cactus. I wonder why that is? The people that are advocates of the OP zombies are the same ones who switch sides as soon as they can to play on their, already mastered, OP zombies. I'm just hoping this update comes sooner rather than later. Adding DLC to a game that's still not quite right is like polishing a *, it might be shiny, but it's still a *.

@xxSe4l-MLG420xx wrote:@TallerGoblin@TallerGoblin wrote:@xxSe4l-MLG420xx wrote:@TallerGoblin wrote:@xxSe4l-MLG420xx wrote:@TallerGoblinSharkbite needs four shots to kill a Cacti and deals more damage than the majority, but most Cacti can even out due to their higher rate of fire. The Camo Cactus i perticuar wastly outclasses him, or at least, I do. The Potato mine is still as lethal as ever and can rack up tons of kills. The Cannon is mediocre at best. It only deals a reliable amount of damage if you continously score direct hits, which is unlikley (provided that youe opponent has a brain) and the splash damage is laughaball. As for th Barrel Blast, amost every Plant has a counter. The Chomper can goop the barrel and place a Spike Weed right under it and eat the Captain. The Peashooter can harass Deadbeard from a roof, making him unhitable by the barrel, and the Gatling is very good at countering it when you are on the ground level. Citron can jump on the roofs and is to mobile to be caught by the explosion. The Sunflower has the Sunbeam and can build up enough distance when the barrel is not lit, so she can escape. Rose can just Goatfy the Captain, dening his damage reduction or use her Arcane enigma. The Kernel just doesn't care and busts the barrel with a Husk Hop. The Cactus can place a Tallnut to block the Barrel and escape in the meantime, of course while laying Potato mines around corners to catch the persuing Deadbeard off guard. (And a lot of players forget about the Potato Mines when chasing a seemingly vunerable Cactus). Speeking about Tallnuts, they can still be used to mount in top of roofs, which is something the Captain can't do as easily, serve as an emergency block Imp Punts, Super Ultra Balls and ZPGs and hide some Potato mines when blocking a narrow pathway. Last but not least, the overpowering Zombies. Scientist and Super Brainz fall in the same category: the class designed to counter you, provided they get close. Counters: Potato mines placed around corners to bait them in, or just not letting them get close. And sometimes you just get lucky hipfiring. I hae to agree about the Imps, but it is only because of their Health, because you can usually hit them once or twice, but never three times in a row.I agree on some points but you you've made a lot of blanket statements. (e.g. one potato mine won't kill a superbrains. You have to admit that it is by no means as simple as you've put it playing online. I'm talking about making the classes even (cactus vs pirate/ sunflower vs scientist) in an attempt to even the playing field. As far as I'm concerned if I'm a cactus versing a pirate, the abilities, health and power should be equal. I shouldn't have to go and play another separate character to kill what is supposed to be my equal.@TallerGoblinYou make a mistake that plenty of people on this forum have made already. You assume that the Plants and Zombie classes should be mirrors, but they just fill the same roles. Let's compare the Chomper to the Super Brainz. The Chomper is a sneaky assasin that is centered around defending a point. To accomplish his job, he's equipped with a stun, an insta-kill move that also renders him invulnerable and can be used as a movement tool and a trap that can disable any damage reducing ability and turns the Zombie into a free kill. Super Brainz is a close range brawler with a fairly powerfull damage ability and a range attack to soften up targets to make up for the lack of an instant kill, a movement ability that also deals damage (altough not a lot) and an ability that was supposed to be a defensive move that allows him to finish of an opponent he was on low HP, but after complains that it was too weak, it turned into an offensive ability that allows to deal considerable amount of damage to groups of Plants while being hard to kill. The only thing that they have in common is that they are best at close range. The Cactus and Deadbeard are different as well. While Deadbeard is somewhat more versitile with his abilities and the Shotgun, the Cactus is the better sniper, because she has needs less shots to kill and has a faster rate of fire. I could go on and on, but I need to get back to work right nowIt's no mistake and it's crippling the game. There's a reason why people are leaving this game in truckloads. All I want is the same enjoyable play style as in GW1, not this hot mess. Is it fair that Superbrains should get tens and tens of kills and that the peashooter shouldn't? By the way Superbrains has no flaws (hell, his laser has further reach than the camo cactus)It's funny that you should run straight to the chomper considering he's the only plant that can hold his own with any zombie. Suggestions for the sunflower???Any clown with half a brain can see that the plants are severely under powered. Nobody gets to the end of maps anymore when the zombies are defending.I feel like we are going to have to agree to disagree.When is Super Brainz able to rack up tons of kills? Usually, most Super Brainz won't go on insane killing sprees because they still perform best at close range, which is also where you die the fastest. Unless we take Electro Brainz into consideration, because that guy is completly broken. His laser does not have any over the top ranged capabilities. It deals only a moderate amount of damage and has some unpleasant recoil to compensate. And everywhere where you can hit somebody with the laser, you can also hit with the Camo Cactus because both are hitscan weapons with unlimited range and pinpoint accuracy. And Super Brainz has the fatale flaw to rely on his movement abilities to be any kind of menace, which leaves him vunerable to the Chomper, Citron and his nemesis Rose which have two CC abilities to stop him.The Chomper definetivly isn't the only Plant that stands a chance. Any Citron works fine, and the default, Druid and Fire Rose are still very effective with the homing upgrade and even without, their abilities help to shut down Super Brainz, Deadbeard, the Scientist and the Imp. The Kernel and Pea are also quite decent altough he requires map knowlage and awarness of Scientist ambushes. The Cacti lacks some sort of direct pushing ability, but the Corn Strike can help to clear out a contested point and in my opinion, she is still the better sniper in comparison to Deadbeard because Sharkbite is the only one able to go toe to toe with most variants, still feels inferior to the Camo Cactus, or at least, is inferior to me as the Camo Cactus. I should also add that every other Sharkbite is inferior to his Cacti counterpart due to damage, ammo and rate of fire.As far as the Sunflower goes the only Plant class that feels weak in this game, I suggested to give her the unique ability to overheal, which would indirectly buff the entire Plant team, because their is no justification for the Scientist to be just as good at supporting as the Sunflower. While some Zombies are broken in the way that they completly outclass the default variant (which is supposed to be the most versatile and reliable variant) or render some other classes useless (Super Brainz makes the Alll-Star jealous) I feel that the Plants still stand a chance, if they play smart enough. And every so often, when I get a team not only composed of Corns but some Roses, Cacti, Peashooter and somebody else playing Citron, we can win. But that is just my opinion"When is superbrains able to rack up tons of kills?" - Have you been living under a rock these last two months???? I'm mean seriously that is gold!He is the most over powered character out there regardless of the variant:- Can jump super high as much as he wants (peashooters super jump is now obsolete)- Has a laser with more range and accuracy than any cactus- Has crippling short range attacks and once he starts punching you its lights out- has a super kick that can be used either to damage or very quickly get in range of you. He can either run away super quick combining it with the super jump or get right next to you in a matter of seconds.- Has way too much health (that was the all star's thing). Something's definitely wrong if 4 plants are trying to take down one superbrains and all the plants die in the attempt.- Has a tornado ability that he can spawn while practically taking no damage, killing large groups of plants and slows down and takes away plants ability (even chompers burrow which is the only plant that can stop him in that mode)Your ignorance its indicative of you being a zombie supporter and that you like the disadvantage the plants are at. I'm promoting balance for both teams so its not just a one sided blow out.

Game is unfixable because of player AND dev Bias

62 Replies

ShavedThronel0
10 years ago
So wheres the plant that has low health, has high damage, has a mech, has a gravity bomb, double jumps, ability with 100% accuracy. The imp has all those and is abused ever since its health was boosted to 75 lives. Zombies that need nerfing are the imp and pirate also the electro brainz.
KnowsNoLimit
10 years ago
@Unfadeable777 Zombies were originally designed to be the aggressor and Plants were designed to be more defensive in GW1, because that was their intended roles for Garden and Graveyards.
So when I first heard about the Plants being more on the attack, the first thing that came to my mind was finally the Plants may get some new offensive abilities this time around. boy was I wrong.
GW2 is a different kind of beast and it now pays to be the agressor in this game. However since Plants were never intended to be play that role you are now seeing the flaws in their original design. This can ofc be rectified with new abilities and such, so fingers crossed we will get something like that in this new update.
One thing that puzzles me still is why when knowing that the Plants were weak offensive did they choose to add another intended support class to the Plant's side as a new character. What the Plants needed was a high burst damage DPS character class which could go to toe with the Scientist in damage and versatility.
For the love of god give me Ghost Pepper in GW2 so that she can show you exactly how it should be done.
Anonymous
10 years ago
@KnowsNoLimit wrote:
@Unfadeable777 Zombies were originally designed to be the aggressor and Plants were designed to be more defensive in GW1, because that was their intended roles for Garden and Graveyards.
So when I first heard about the Plants being more on the attack, the first thing that came to my mind was finally the Plants may get some new offensive abilities this time around. boy was I wrong.
GW2 is a different kind of beast and it now pays to be the agressor in this game. However since Plants were never intended to be play that role you are now seeing the flaws in their original design. This can ofc be rectified with new abilities and such, so fingers crossed we will get something like that in this new update.
One thing that puzzles me still is why when knowing that the Plants were weak offensive did they choose to add another intended support class to the Plant's side as a new character. What the Plants needed was a high burst damage DPS character class which could go to toe with the Scientist in damage and versatility.
For the love of god give me Ghost Pepper in GW2 so that she can show you exactly how it should be done.
I'm curious, how would a ghost pepper work in GW2, by that I mean what would its abilities be, I know how he works in PvZ2
KnowsNoLimit
10 years ago
@Spyr0471Ghost Pepper's a female.
I would picture her being a high burst damage dps character, a proper shotgun type for the plants. It's exactly what she did in PvsZ2, by having Ghosts attacking multiple directions.
Ability wise I could see her having a vanishing move where she sets off a small explosion and teleports just before she vanishes similar to how she was in PvsZ2. I could also see her getting some kind of range attack as an ability. You could also have an option of possessing a Zombie and you getting control of them and being able to use them against their team mates.
She has so many possibilities.
If anyone doesn't know who GP is, just look at my avatar. Bad * plant in both power and looks.
She's my favourite Plant in the series for a reason.
DoctorMashOnEA
10 years ago
@KnowsNoLimit wrote:

@Unfadeable777 Zombies were originally designed to be the aggressor and Plants were designed to be more defensive in GW1, because that was their intended roles for Garden and Graveyards.

So when I first heard about the Plants being more on the attack, the first thing that came to my mind was finally the Plants may get some new offensive abilities this time around. boy was I wrong.

GW2 is a different kind of beast and it now pays to be the agressor in this game. However since Plants were never intended to be play that role you are now seeing the flaws in their original design. This can ofc be rectified with new abilities and such, so fingers crossed we will get something like that in this new update.

One thing that puzzles me still is why when knowing that the Plants were weak offensive did they choose to add another intended support class to the Plant's side as a new character. What the Plants needed was a high burst damage DPS character class which could go to toe with the Scientist in damage and versatility.

For the love of god give me Ghost Pepper in GW2 so that she can show you exactly how it should be done.

I don't think the design is bad. The real problem is that they nerfed the GW1 abilities that used to make a difference. Peashooter's chili bomb (even sombrero bomb) is useless unless zombies are standing next to it. I have already complained few times about the spikeweed, which is completely useless now. Also, when was the last time you were blown up by a potato mine? If the devs reset these we can actually see the game balancing itself.
Zaheen1337
10 years ago
@Unfadeable777
They are zombie loving trolls who don't know how to play balanced shooter games. Just ignore them like I do 🙂
Anonymous
10 years ago
Oh, great, are we reviving this Zombie lover nonsense to prevent any arguments that oppose your view?
DawnOfNoob
10 years ago
First off, CBB and SBB didn't get nerfed THAT bad. They're still quite spammable like Imp Punt and just as deadly - you just can't one shot the 125 or less classes with it alone. (100 damage is still quite powerful - not to mention that more than one of these things will basically clear out a point, just like in the first game) Besides, you should have peppered the enemy up with your peas to let it one shot them....

Even if the bomb misses, you're still denying an area to the enemy.

Also, spikeweed isn't useless. Sure, like potato mines, it's hard to get a kill solely off one these days. (But then again, most everyone plants side is playing BBQ corn) But its activation time has no delay now, instantly stops abilities (like twister, impkata, and jackhammer), and is a spammable way to chomp an enemy from any angle.
Zaheen1337
10 years ago
@xxSe4l-MLG420xx
Pretty much.
🙂
Sassbre
10 years ago
With Rose nerfed zombies have quicly risen once again to being the overpowered side.
Why they upped imp to 75 health was beyond me he was already an OP class great speed, snipe and damage, and impediment with gravity ball followed by the most tank high damaging mechs. Being low on health and vulnerable was his trade off for the mech not that his speed doesn't counter.
Drake Imps mech should reduce his health. Zombies already have All-Star and Super Brains on 200 health as a tank now a mech 300-450 HP whilst plants have only the Citron with 200 health and the Chompers just behind on an average 175 that is 2-3 1/2 vs 1 3/4 tanks.

Top 2 classes that need a nerf
Sharkbite far too great of a range and too high damage that supersedes any cacti, and Electro brains 15 damage to all surrounding targets on a continuous beam are you mental the kinetic is ridiculous 2 seconds and it equals death to any group of plants, the damage should be direct damage to the target and low kinetic to surrounding targets like any other electric class and the kinetic to not be as continuous as the beam no other electric has this its single shot kinetic damage.
Next 2 on the list Stenchy that fast fire rate enough to easily contend with prenerfed rose with toxic not to miss splash is a hard combo to beat. Zoologist is very overpowered in close to medium range but if you are on your toes can kill him early and avoid. Whilst we are at it Scooba soldier is pretty OP too.
BBQ Corn and Drake are annoying as hell its not so much the class as it is the fire damage rate as fire has been an overpowered class since PVGW1 the Fire Chomper is still the very powerful. Toxic Pea is still as fearsome as number 1.
One class that puzzles me Chomp Thing I don't get his 50 health reduction from the rest of the Chompers he doesn't have any additional damaging benefits if not less... there is a few across class character balances that still don't make sense.
The cacti drone is * in comparison to the parrot which has 20 health and is highly manoeuvrable compared to garlic with its 5. Also another complaint Eggsplosion is instant as Corn Strike is delayed. Then think about Rose a "support" now nerfed in comparison to an engineer for teleporter the engineer has high damage splash, turret and stun mines to help him build and defend a TP the Rose has none of that you can maybe slow them for a few seconds and goat them which they can just charge you anyway to stop TP being built.