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Pheesley's avatar
Pheesley
6 years ago

Hard Target upgrade and the general TTK

First, I want to talk about the Hard Target upgrade and how it is too overpowered. The speed support classes gain from the Hard Target upgrade makes them too difficult to kill, and allows supports to sprint away too easily.

I would also like to add that the speed from Hard Target stacks with Engineer's double time. (Correct me if I am wrong)

I think giving a speed boost simply for taking damage is too rewarding with very little effort on the supports side. I would suggest making Hard Target behave like the Fallback upgrade.

A major thing that makes Hard Target so good is the overall high TTK. Most classes cannot deal damage fast enough to stop a speedy Hard Target support from escaping. The TTK is still too low; so low in fact that attack classes struggle to kill supports. This has been said before, but adding damage dropoff would be a safe way to allow classes to deal more damage without making the wrong classes too strong at range. I find the PVP almost unplayable because of how low the TTK is for most classes.

NOTE: GW1 and 2 still have a lower TTK than BFN, and those games didn't have sprinting.

9 Replies

  • Fork_x_Spoon's avatar
    Fork_x_Spoon
    6 years ago
    I never used Hard Target until now because I use upgrades that aid in support play. After using it, I can now see how Sunflowers Usain Bolt themselves to the other side of the map when I breathe on them.
    I feel like they made fire rates faster (might not be true) to compensate for low TTK. That would be fine if there was damage drop-off because now Nightcap gets deleted by Foot Soldier even when she's a light year away from him. Doing your idea can fix this by forcing them to play where they're best fitted so we don't have these unfair advantages because someone can shoot fast.
  • Shadowphinx101's avatar
    Shadowphinx101
    6 years ago
    @Pheesley Again, this is why we need damage dropoff, because preventing ppl from doing high amounts of dmg from range makes them specialised at a certain range, so their weapon can have a higher ttk at one range than another..
  • Lybry_Book's avatar
    Lybry_Book
    6 years ago

    The ttk also generally impacts  the fun I have with a character.
    If I two characters that have a high dps play against each other it tends

    to feel alot better than playing against each other

    with two characters that basically use a water gun.
    (Example: Citron vs SB tends to be more fun than base imp vs sunflower)

    So yea I totally agree that falloff and some dps buffs for certain chars are necessary

    to reduce sprinting efficiency in combat, make pocketing less annoying to go

    against and overall make the game a bit more fun.

  • TheSprinter85's avatar
    TheSprinter85
    Hero
    6 years ago

    Double Time and Hard Target for the Engineer do stack, but Quick Egress and Hard Target do not stack for the Sunflower (anymore). 

    Hard Target is a great upgrade for Supports because they can get out of situations that they do not want to be in much more easily than many other characters. There is something that can partially counter players using this upgrade: instant vanquish attacks and abilities, because being instantly vanquished means you do not have a chance to use Hard Target to get away, however if you are taking damage from rapid fire it is very easy to escape. 

    I believe that Hard Target was designed so that you can get to your team easily if you are taking damage and they can protect you. But because it can easily be misused, perhaps Hard Target should cost more upgrade points than it does now or reduce the amount of speed boost gained by the upgrade (or its duration).

  • Lybry_Book's avatar
    Lybry_Book
    6 years ago

    The issue is that it allows supports to overextend way too much due to it being a easy way to get out of bad situations.

  • Pheesley's avatar
    Pheesley
    6 years ago

    @Fork_x_Spooni think the fire rate for foot soldier, corn, and imp, is just about the same as they were in GW2. I recently went back to playing GW2 and those classes still seem to consume at about the same rate. In my opinion, BFN Corn and Soldier's damage feels terrible without dps boosts, or if I'm not keeping my distance, which is a wierd thing to do as an attack class that clearly isn't a sniper.

  • Pheesley's avatar
    Pheesley
    6 years ago

    @TheSprinter85I think getting a speed boost for simply taking damage is too rewarding. There is a imblance of effort between the Hard Target support running away, and the enemy player who has to lead their shots a lot in order to vanquish them.

    Hard Target is not balanced to me because the speed is too easy to get, and supports already have good survivability tools. I think the way Hard Target works might need to be changed, but this is also a TTK problem.

  • mikepal19's avatar
    mikepal19
    6 years ago

    I'm personally fine with hard target. 

    I don't like how they decided to get rid of the speed stackability of sunflower and not engineer. 

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