I don't know why, but over the past several days, where I have mostly been on plant teams during Turf take over, the plants can't seem to win. Not just losing the game, but rarely even making it past the first base. I can't tell you the last time I've even seen the end stage of Lunar base because whether I'm plants or zombies the game almost never gets that far. Again, it's usually halted on the very first map. The problems the zombies had with the winter map (not being able to get past the first base) seems to have shifted to the plants now.It got so bad, I even tried playing Turf take over on Zombie University map solo just to see if plants could take the first base when all players were "equal", that is no special abilities. To try and approximate human players I played 4 matches on craaazzzy and all 4 times the plants couldn't get past the first base. Then I played as Zombies on craaazy figuring defense should be equally as hard. But nope, it was easy as pie to defend the first base and Zombies won every time. I then switched to hard mode on the same map, and again, 3 out of 4 times the plants were stopped dead in their tracks. One of the times we got to the second base, but lost there.Another thing that concerns me is the lack of team rotation. After one round, anyone who stays in the lobby should automatically switch sides, but that's not happening. More often than not, I end up on the same team as before. Which makes no sense. Gameplay wise, why would you expect a different outcome if the players in large part are going to be playing on the same team? You also don't give the losing team the opportunity to see if they can win when the roles are reversed, if you don't reverse the roles. Granted, I do see a couple of people ending up on the opposite side, but I don't know if they are manually switching or the game is doing it. But whatever the case, the game should swap everyone on the next game start.

@tristkissCouldn't agree more, now brace yourself before all the zombie lovers and trolls swarm in and attack you with comments like "you're not playing as a team" and the other * they are saying. Ignore all of it, they're the same noobs that team swap every game or leave.The problem with team changing and reverse issue is, lots of people come on to play one game and then leave. Why is anyone going to stay when things are this bad?Zombie side stomps the plants, and at the end of the game half the zombie team leaves - pay good attention to this, they know they're going to be pushed onto the plants side so they just leave. That causes the game to force itself the balance the teams, randomly, it doesn't prioritise a team switch due to the unfair number of players in each side. From what I've experienced.I have played as zombies on a map, then the game plays the same map and again I'm on zombies doing the same thing...it was never like that in GW1 because zombies always attacked and after every game, the game selected a different map.Many problems, I can't think of a solution.Please look at my balance thread and support some of the changes. Many are needed in order for games to be pushed beyond the first base.

75% of the problem is... and always has been that players don't push on offense. Part of the issue is that now that Plants play on offense, the original classes were given 0 new abilities geared towards offense. That combination right there is a disaster for plants. When you got pansies who don't push the objective, that forces the defense out towards plants spawn... which then leads to the plants being spawn killed. As I've always said, this generation of k/d kids has no concept of team and objective play. I've said since GW1 that they need to gear the incentives towards objectives. On offense, more time spent in objective and kills while in objective gives bigger bonuses. On defense, kills while standing in objective give bigger bonuses. When they see their scores and payouts drop... and are no longer on top of the leaderboards, then maybe they'll start rethinking how they play.

@AWMaxSterlingAdding to your points, zombies are mostly geared toward offence, so even when they should be defending they're all attacking the plants spawn points. Plants, instead of attacking the graveyard and capture points are all stuck defending their spawn point for no reason than lack of class balance.Once the Mechs are out, you can wave goodbye to whatever should be balanced, now you need 2-3 plants per Mech.Give my balance changes some feedback please.

@AWMaxSterling wrote: 75% of the problem is... and always has been that players don't push on offense. Part of the issue is that now that Plants play on offense, the original classes were given 0 new abilities geared towards offense. That combination right there is a disaster for plants. When you got pansies who don't push the objective, that forces the defense out towards plants spawn... which then leads to the plants being spawn killed. As I've always said, this generation of k/d kids has no concept of team and objective play. I've said since GW1 that they need to gear the incentives towards objectives. On offense, more time spent in objective and kills while in objective gives bigger bonuses. On defense, kills while standing in objective give bigger bonuses. When they see their scores and payouts drop... and are no longer on top of the leaderboards, then maybe they'll start rethinking how they play. Last night I was on zombies in Zomburbia against a plant team that could not get out of the spawn. There were a couple of electro brains on roofs hitting them with arc damage while they were in their spawn and some imps rolling in mechs. I almost left the game because I could barely get any vanquishes myself. The teams were even and two of the players are solid players that I know from GW1. I can't speculate the skill for the rest of the plant team, but it was a really lopsided game. Even pre patch Rose would have been fair at this point. That is how bad the game was for the plants.

@Zaheen1337 wrote: @AWMaxSterling wrote: Keep ruining the game, scrub... Lollipops. I haven't done or ruined anything, I only started using the forums post patch, the same time I started playing online. Why you so mad? Is it because my forum XP is catching yours? Must be the competition, some players can't handle it. Evidentially you can't handle class balance either. Forum XP? I can just contridict you and gain a lot if it was that important. If I can't handle class balance, then why was I one of the first to speak up about the patches to Rose... and was right both times... before the patches were even pushed? Why did EA give me a free copy of the game, if not for my feedback on the game? Most of you scrubs sit here and whine and whine and whine about classes that kill you and immediately want them nerfed because you have problems against them. Instead of learning to adapt to play against them, you cry to have them nerfed and screw up the balance even further. You need to learn to play before you can make balance suggestions.

The Plant Struggle Is Real | EA Forums

46 Replies

AWMaxSterling
10 years ago
@B0RiS_THE_FR0G wrote:

@AWMaxSterling wrote:

Your posts aren't worth replies or attention. You're the type of person that they listen to... and end up screwing the game up even further.

With all due respects I could also say that your replies don't warrant any attention because you're attitude towards others creates an air of self-importance, giving the impression that your opinions - and your opinions only - are the only ones that matter within these forums. I could further add that you've gotten quite good at climbing atop your pedestal by pulling the above quote in order to assert your supposed superior authority over us minions and low life's... But I won't because, unlike you, i'm not the judgemental type.

Look, the important thing to remember is that everyone on this forum has purchased this game and although it most definitely doesn't give them the definitive right to demand actions that suit their needs, it DOES give them the right to pass comment about how they feel about GW2 and offer feedback as to how they think the game would improve for the benefit of everyone concerned. Just because a person doesn't agree with a suggestion (or it doesn't factor in with their own ideals) it most definitely doesn't give them the god given right to dispel said idea as total garbage. Not here, not anywhere.

I'm assuming that PopCap take on board all feedback (positive and negative) so like it or not, ALL comments count. Good, bad, trivial, pointless, inspirational or just plain stupid. It's really doesn't matter so long as somewhere along the lines PopCap can collate enough data and act accordingly. Perhaps you need to recognise that fact, AWM.

I honestly don't care what people think of my replies. If they're an idiot and posting like an idiot... I'll call them an idiot.

As for providing feedback, sure everyone has the right, but not everyone should give an opinion or provide feedback... or post without thinking. Which is what happens on these forums. If people can't handle getting negative feedback on their post, then they probably shouldn't be posting on forums, anyways. I always post expecting someone to disagree and always look forward to a heated exchange. If they can't defend their stance on something, then they obviously haven't thought it out enough.

In the end, I'm not on the forums to make friends. I'm here to make sure we get the game we deserve. Could care less if I have to ruffle some feathers along the way...
Anonymous
10 years ago
I agree. I mostly play on turf takeover and it looks like plants become the underdog after rose nerf.
To me, plants are lacking the way to breakthrough zombies'' defense line. Compare to zombie's marksman role (shark laser pirate) which can do 35 dmg on hit on any range with a decent fire speed, cactus is only able to make 25 on hit with a slower fire speed. This greatly limit plants' ability to eliminate enemies in distant range. While in close range, chomper is not as effective as scientists, who can take down 2 to 3 plants with only one magazine. And the tank role, fulfilled by citron, is also lack of power. Citron usually lose to a 1 on 1 fight in close range, where a tank should stay.
tristkiss
10 years ago

I always post expecting someone to disagree and always look forward to a heated exchange.

There's a difference in expecting it, and attempting to instigate it. It is as much how you say something as what you say. You can offer up points for a debate without wording it in such a way as to insight people to anger. Civility should be maintained. Which means not calling people names. You can say you disagree, or I think you're wrong because XYZ....but leave the name calling out of it.

In the end, I'm not on the forums to make friends. I'm here to make sure we get the game we deserve.

Well, that's too bad, why not make friends with fellow GW fans? That's not a bad thing

So are we, which is why we're pointing out issues we believe the game has. as well as bugs we can confirm the game has. And where we can, suggesting ways to correct them.

It's good we're ALL doing what we can to improve this game. 😇
Anonymous
10 years ago
That's because defending is way easier than attacking, no matter which side you're playing.

Granted, zomburbia and lunar base are much easier to defend than time park and great white north but Defending as plants is still pretty easy if you know the maps.

If you can't defend time park on the last stage as plants, it's purely because you and your team are very inexperienced. It is so easy to stop the team from pushing the boot.

I played zomburbia recently as zombies and it was the first time the plants managed to get to the last stage, they lost at the end though. You know how they did it? they coordinated 5-6 people at a time diving in to cap points.
That's what the game is supposed to be about, teamwork and coordination, but the player base just doesn't seem to want to do any of that. Some things I noticed ...

-people are terrified of dying for some odd reason they rather lose a cap than die defending it.

-wayyyyyyy too many people are sniping. Nothing more frustrating than watching your citrons and corns sitting back and trying to pick people off instead of doing their job as front line characters.

-due to the nature of the game, you have many many people are very young and don't know how to play a team based game or simply don't care about winning as much as the more mature players.

-voice chat is sometimes difficult to use because when you're trying to coordinate with team members there's usually some elementary school child that talks over you or just talks for no reason

-there's this weird blitzkrieg strategy people have adopted. Where they throw strategy and wherewithal out the window and just rush in guns blazing

Zombies have the advantage and that's mostly due to the nature of their maps. Some characters are out of line, like electro brainz and deadbeard but mostly it's the map imbalance that hurts the plants most.

I hope popcap realizes that catering to a very small playerbase of young children and casual adults is a sure way to kill the longevity of their game. They are new to this whole shooter thing and I hope over time they realize that making a game that is competitive and balanced attracts a much broader audience.
tristkiss
10 years ago
@InC0g Also the teleporters at the start are in such a useless spot. They save you barely any distance and are easily camped.

Too true, another flaw I see in the map designs. On the University map (sorry I'm terrible with remember the names of these things) but anyway, if you use the poter on that map, depending on where you spawn, you often have to back track to reach the base, because you went in the opposite direction just to reach the teleporter pad. How does that make sense? Then the later level of that map, and particularly in Time Park, it takes so much time to reach the teleports because of the size of the maps, so you lose precious seconds that you could be using on actually taking the base. This is of particular annoyance when you walk all the way over to it, only to find out it's not even active, which you couldn't tell from where you spawned because of all the unnecessary obstacles blocking your view. They're not there to provide cover, because the plants spawn is miles away, they're there to make the map look "prettier", but serve to just waste more of your precious time.
Anonymous
10 years ago
Well just played a few games in surb on plants team and had 4 supper brain on the zombies, all I can say is what an absolute P£&@ take of s game super brain controlled the whole game could not even attack that character. And defending a garden well you just have to run away or be killed and killed and killed and killed and killed and killed and killed, my 8 direct shots with the ice pea still left him standing and when I reloaded he took the hit and I'm I over in one hit.
I can not believe now that EA are letting this go on for this time so many fed up users now all saying the same thing and still no one from EA even joins us in these discussions to talk about the problems. F.... Amazing realy. !!!!!!!
Anonymous
10 years ago
@AlexP1980

@AlexP1980 wrote:

@InC0g wrote:

@AlexP1980 wrote:

The point is that if we pick average teams and we make them play 2 games, one with zombies and one with plants vs each other, the zombie team wins easily both games 90% of the time in turf takeover.

No way in hell is that accurate. I'm winning way more than that as plants in that mode. Sure if you got stuck playing zomburbia (and Moon Base Z to a certain extent) all the time i'd agree with that, but on other maps plants can easily win too.

So you are saying that in 2 maps plants don't have a chance and the others (when defending) got 50%? It's 75% winning rate for zombies. If you feel it's ok...

Well I've just taken you from winning 1 in 10 to a comparatively huge 1 in 4 without any effort on your part whatsoever. You can thank me later 🙂

I can improve your odds even further if you take into account that plants tend to win Great White North and Seeds of Time more often than not (in my experience of course). I'd say they win those around 75% of the time.

So now your at a 37.5% chance of winning, or just over 1 in 3.

But wait it gets even better. They don't always lose Zomburbia and Moon Base Z either...

Even if they only won a lowly 1 in 20 of those two you would now have a whopping 40% chance of winning.

I'd say anything hovering around or over 46-7% win rates are getting as close to balanced as possible, as there will always be slight variation. Looking at it like that I don't really feel as if we're that far off it. A few more wins on the bad maps and you'd be there. Of course that is for Turf Takeover / Herbal Assault. Other modes / maps will be different. You have to think that Buffs / Nerfs in one gametype can have larger implications in others.

On a final note; If you jump into MP and see Zomburbia and Moon Base Z load don't think "oh we're screwed, I can't be arsed with this", why not think "hey we've got a really good chance of winning if we can get past those couple of awkward cap points". If you go in with a defeatist attitude to start with it's as good as a loss from the outset. Besides it can only improve your gameplay to play something more challenging, whilst the ones having an easier time of it learn nothing at all.
Boolerex
10 years ago
It a shame that one of the two gamemode of the most popular playlist, herbal assault,is the gamemode in which plant team suffer the most, they really didn't seem that bad at any other gamemode, it just that herbal assault really don't play well with plant team strength. Mostly in the fact that chomper and cactus are just horrible to capture point with.

I won't deny that there clearly a imbalance between plant and zombie,but that game-mode just make seem like that plant are UP while the trust is that they're fine and that zombie team is just a tad OP right now.
borjomimaster
10 years ago
@AlexP1980

Are you some sort of stupid? My words means only one thing -- all depends on your personally skill. It's my opinion that I confirm by my personally experience.
Zaheen1337
10 years ago
@AWMaxSterling wrote:
@B0RiS_THE_FR0G wrote:
@AWMaxSterling wrote:
Your posts aren't worth replies or attention. You're the type of person that they listen to... and end up screwing the game up even further.
With all due respects I could also say that your replies don't warrant any attention because you're attitude towards others creates an air of self-importance, giving the impression that your opinions - and your opinions only - are the only ones that matter within these forums. I could further add that you've gotten quite good at climbing atop your pedestal by pulling the above quote in order to assert your supposed superior authority over us minions and low life's... But I won't because, unlike you, i'm not the judgemental type.
Look, the important thing to remember is that everyone on this forum has purchased this game and although it most definitely doesn't give them the definitive right to demand actions that suit their needs, it DOES give them the right to pass comment about how they feel about GW2 and offer feedback as to how they think the game would improve for the benefit of everyone concerned. Just because a person doesn't agree with a suggestion (or it doesn't factor in with their own ideals) it most definitely doesn't give them the god given right to dispel said idea as total garbage. Not here, not anywhere.
I'm assuming that PopCap take on board all feedback (positive and negative) so like it or not, ALL comments count. Good, bad, trivial, pointless, inspirational or just plain stupid. It's really doesn't matter so long as somewhere along the lines PopCap can collate enough data and act accordingly. Perhaps you need to recognise that fact, AWM.
I honestly don't care what people think of my replies. If they're an idiot and posting like an idiot... I'll call them an idiot.
As for providing feedback, sure everyone has the right, but not everyone should give an opinion or provide feedback... or post without thinking. Which is what happens on these forums. If people can't handle getting negative feedback on their post, then they probably shouldn't be posting on forums, anyways. I always post expecting someone to disagree and always look forward to a heated exchange. If they can't defend their stance on something, then they obviously haven't thought it out enough.
In the end, I'm not on the forums to make friends. I'm here to make sure we get the game we deserve. Could care less if I have to ruffle some feathers along the way...
@AWMaxSterling
I believe if EA/PopCap predicted your attitude and behaviour now they wouldn't have given you a free copy of anything.
I have been given free games in the past by balancing and practically making the game too, what difference does that make to my opinion here?
If I wasn't too busy getting Rank 1-313 in the month between beta and release, I would have given some incredible feedback on the forums also, and without a doubt I would have probably been offered a free copy. You won't have been the only one to receive it, they give it to players who report bugs and glitches, make an impact, and spend hours dedicated to helping the game.
Now that you're sat there with your free copy, you're trying to tell everyone else they're not entitled to an opinion in a game which they PAID for? Seriously???
You really are an idiot...and your feedback reflects this.
http://answers.ea.com/t5/General-Discussion/New-ability-suggestions/m-p/5164247#U5164247
Also in regards to Rose, your balance changes or whatever you claim...of course you're going to comment on overpowered plant classes, because you're a bloody zombie loving scrub, who will do and say whatever it takes to make your time on the game enjoyable.
You don't care about balance, because if you did you would be agreeing with me instead of thinking up new abilities for zombies...
I couldn't care less if you try and ruffle my feathers by contradicting me, you can't even spell the word properly...scrub.
@InC0g
You aren't making logical sense. You can't add the chance of winning in one map, and the chance of winning in another map, and then add all the chances of winning together and sum it up to 40, round that up to a fabricated number of 47% and then use that to claim classes are balanced. Stop trying to be smart, it's making you look really dumb.
Even if the zombies team lose it isn't because the plants are balanced, it is probably because zombies were too busy farming kills from the spawn point to even care about the bloody objective! Rendering all your points invalid, sorry.

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The Plant Struggle Is Real

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