Ultimate Personal Game Discussion Topic (suggestion, changes)12/05

This is my personal thread i speak about every detail in the game with an explanation.

Actual Plant problem

Lacks of survivability options for some plants

Most of the plants lacks survavibility options. Cactus and Sunflowers especially. Sunflowers have to rely a lot on his allies to be protected, Cactuses is extremely weak at low range, and the only way to protect himself from major threats are potato mines, anyway, the range of activations seems not too effective to protect them enough.
Chompers have a huge digestion time, and need someone to cover them when eating. Citron is mostly clunky and need someone to cooperate to works properly and Rose after nerf changes is forced to stay in the backline and avoid as much as possible skirmishes. The only plants in this context that are safe and forgiving to play are Corns and PeaShooters. Peashooters and Corn have enough damage and survivability options thanks to Hype and Husk Hop.

Zombie comparation

Instead zombie have more survability options. Foot Soldier can rocket leap two consecutive times, Scientists same, two warps, S.Brainz has huge armor reduction and a powerful dash (and 200 hp), all star have dummy and a instant dash to make him safe, and 200 hp,  Engineer has jackhammer to escape, Imps can use the gravity grenade to stop threats and his extremely mobile and hard to hit, and pirate has armor reduction and a shotgun. Conclusion: zombies not only are at the moment stronger, but also more easier and more accessible for new players, since they have incredible powerful skills that makes them forgiving to play

Plants Herbaul Assault Problem

Plants aren't designed for herbal assault. Anyway these are all the useless abilities that doesn't allow plant to rush objectives:

- Cactus mines and wallnut

- Chompers spikeweed

- PeaShooter gaitling fun

- Sunflower Sunbeam
Those abilities should be replaced with something else taking at example Zombies kit full of dashes, teleports, blinks and so on.

Support characters controversy, they are not much forviging for new players, instead they works pratically only in a veteran's hand.

Both Supports characters in the plant team, Roses and Sunflowers are both weak and hard to play to take profit, maybe the two most hard characters in the game, and this is controversy. Usually supports character should be easier for new players in a way you help your friends to win the match, instead both of them at the moment are mostly played by expert people who, in order to play them "decently" have just to be expert at those characters. And this is pretty bad because their efforts is not rewarded enough in my opinion. Rose lacks projectile speed and homing has a specific range of activation, arcane enigma has a huge delay of vulnerability and after time snare got nerfed at the moment Rose requires an extreme decision making to take profit of his kit.

Sunflowers lacks impact and an effective role

Since now every character can heal himself alone, healing has become less important mechanic, not to mention HP regen got buff last patch and HP delay and HP regen upgrades. Sunflowers are the moment hard to play because they requires a good positioning, awareness, knowledge and at the same time have not a huge impact in the game, the fact this class is played for the most by sunflowers expert and at the same time they don't succeded a big reward is a proof this class doesn't works anymore

Chompers Upgrades

Chompers to fully works need x2 Digestion Upgrades and Movespeed. Those two are staples for many reasons. The actual upgrade system doesn't allow them to afford anything else, and this is EXTREMELY horrible in my opinion.

Cactus Camping not anymore a reliable strategy with new map design

The main difference with Cactus and Captain Deadbeard is, Captain is more versatile class. The new map game desing doesn't allow much more camping and this at the moment is favoring versatile class rather than classic camper sniper

Corn controversy. Spammed and abused. Opinion, solutions and discussion

One of the most problem for the plant (and not for the zombie) is the Corn being spammed non-stop, overall on console, this is a huge problem, overall because this character is not even close on being OP, but most people think this because they compare him to a better version of foot soldier with 25hp.
Wrong. This character is completely worthless in a casual player hand and is role is completely different from Foot Soldier.
Foot soldier is for many reasons much more safe and easy to play and affordable for new players.

Also Kernel Corn skills force him to stay as much as possibile in the frontline, while Foot Soldier can stay safe with his Rocket Leaps and/or on the roofs to deal damage. This make Kernel Corn is the worst position possibile to do damage (the frontline) while i don't think this character is underpowered or overpowered , i think the problem is being abused by newbies, and the reason is abused is because is one of the few characters in the plant team that doesn't have really to rely a lot on his allies

Most of the problem why imps and S.Brainz become so oppressive

I don't think these two characters are too overpowered, most of the problem comes to the fact their primary counter (Rose) got overnerfed and THE SAME TIME, they both got buff . Turbo twist huge increased movespeed for a slighly less armor is a HUGE TOXIC buffs, and same for Imps with those 25 health more. That's why they both becomes so oppressive.

 Discussion new classes.  Roses, Citron and Corns.

Suggestion for Balance and Class discussion

PeaShooter.
Very strong and balanced class overall.
Hyper Jump is rarely used, because offers less survivability. Little less reduction will eventually make the game have more variety.

- reduce Cooldown for Hyper Jump

Electro PeaShooter

Electro PeaShooter is a little bit underperforming at long range and he take a useless upgrade.

- replacing Reload Upgrade at Elite V with Damage Upgrade (he doesn't need x2 reload upgrades) (+3 damage direct hit +2 damage exposion)

- slighly increasing projectile speed after the bullet reaches 25 metres (not before. Otherwise he will be too oppressive in close-range fights)

Agent PeaShooter

-no screen shaking at each shot. How can i manage to headshots with this bad video effect?

Commando PeaShooter

- Increase +2 Base Damage

- Increased +1 Damage at mid/high range. 

Sunflower

This class at the moment is totally surclassed by Scientists both  as a Healer (thanks to Scientists Heal Beam) and has a damage dealer since some important changes in the game.
First all the character can regenerates full health and maps favored Scientists. Plants doesn't have anymore a toptier healer that allows them to enjoy the battlefield more compare to Zombies and healers have become less important in this game. While Scientists can still have a huge impact as an assassin, Sunflower can't really shiny as well.
She requires incredible skills and at the same time has not that impact in the game, she lacks surivability option. This class is mostly used by Veterans and one trick ponies to help their team, and is extremely low rewarding too. As a support, this class should be more affordable to any new player and more forgiven to play.
First, you have to make a difference between HealBeam and Raibow one. Give her more Hp Regen to let her enjoy the battlefield more often, and give her Survivability Option when healing in the middle of the fight.

 Suggestion Buffs

-Decreased Cooldown for Heal Pot

-Decrease Cooldown for Dark Flower Pot

-New Heal Aura: Sunflower constant heal herself about 1hp per second, even when fighting.

-Increased Health Regen per second by 1 when out of fights

So we have two Heal Beam. The first you need to get close your allies, but you can enjoy the battlefield more, the second a little bit safe but less rewarding.

-Raibow Heal
Slighly increased Heal Regeneration by 1.5 per second. When healing injured allies Sunflower heal herself about 1.5 hp per second

-Raibow Heal Beam

Slighly increased Heal Range

Alien Flower suggested by @cmh05171

Give her some love.
Some Suggest:

- Make those Spore a good CC (disorientating effect like Hypno mushrooms)
OR
- Some Fire Ratio (I suggest +25% Fire Ratio)

Mystic Flower

- Buff: No movespeed penalty when charging. Suggested by @xxSe4l-MLG420xx

Cactus

The problem with Cactus is not about his variations, but in his kit. His skillsket is too reliable on camping, and is not more a working strategy for this new game with the new map designs.

Pietrified Cactus: Increased projectile speed after bullet reach 25 metres (not before!! Otherwise he will be too oppressive in close-range fights)

Cool Idea: Shooting at his own potato trap after an X amount of seconds activate them, have a slighly more range but do less damage. This will eventually expand Cactus gameplay with more strategic options rather than stay backline and hope your allies will protect you.
Edited: i added after an X amount of seconds to give enemies time to react

New abilities suggested by @Shogunbear

Spud Launcher: option to replace regular potatoe mines. Give it massive drop-off so you have to arc your shots then they would land and act just like a potatoe mine. Maybe limit to 2 mines instead of 3 so there would still be a reason to use regular ability.

And instead of tallnuts some kind of mitigation ability maybe identical dmg reduction to roses arcane enigma and attackers take a certain amount of thorns damage on hit, so mindless spray or splash damage would hurt the attackers

Zen Cactus Fake Ammo Count.

Zen Cactus has some controversial about his ammo slots, because mostly player will just waste the first two hits and have constatly his ammo counter with 3 ammos.
Also i think the nerf touched  her too much. Gives player rewarding for taking multiple hits consecutively.

Zen Cactus change
-Increased Fire Ratio for only the second shot of the Ammo Count.

What does mean? After you shoot the first shoot you can shoot your second faster, and after you can shoot your powerful shoots like you always do.
This eventually will benefit players with good aim and make Zen Cactus experience both less dramatic for both the Zen Cactus player when trying to kill a Zombie with huge amount of health poin and both for the opponent which receives in first place a little less burst damage to react Zen Cactus shoots.

Chomper

Increased Chomper Upgrades to 5, since the two Digest and Movespeed Upgrades are too important staples he can't afford nothing else. Give him more freedom!

Citron

-Reduced slighly less time when changing his form, from Ball Mode to Battle Mode . Not viceversa

Electro Citron

-Slighly buff for uncharged shots at close range only (+1/2)

Iron Citron

-Make the Bar Upgrade worth to be used in all game modes besides Turf Takeover.

Rose

-Fix the delay of vulnerability of Arcane Enigma. Arcane Enigma gives you quickly invincibility. OR Health buff +25

-Regular Rose Damage up +1

-Druid Rose Ammo Slot buff

-Fire Rose should have less penalty when charging.

-Ice Rose should move and jump with no penalty when charging.
Ice Rose freeze faster and the Ice Charged attack should turn back to instafreeze at the cost of further less damage OR apply more freeze stacks and freeze the target with a couple of more hits.

Rose Discussion

We have two problem with the actual Rose.
The first problem is, as a support character is extremely hard to play for new players, and this shouldn't be happen cause support characters are meant to be user friendly. And the second problem is, even after those nerfs his kit is still quite powerful in a veteran's hand.
I also think is still clearly underpowered because the nerf touched her too much.
So, while i agree with the most of the nerfs i think she is still underperforming.

The Homing nerf was to don't make too oppressive as a damage dealer.
The HP was to make her less oppressive as a frontliner

The Time Snare Duration was in order to give more counterplay.
I agree with most of these things. But the Hp nerf now doesn't allow her to activate Arcane Enigma in time to save herself. Fix the delay of vulnerability of this skill and give her instant incincibility could solve this problem, instead of giving her back +25HP which will mean Rose being spammed again.

Both Ice and Fire Rose now are underperforming. Consider now you have less health points i think being completely immobile when charging is too much risky.
Fire Rose at least is not that bad as her Ice variant, so i think doesn't need much of buff. 
Maybe giving her back the ability to move and jump regularly is too much, but consider Fire Rose to have a small buff to his movespeed when charging.

Same for Ice Rose, but she is too weak compared to his counterparts, so i think instead she should move and jump with no penalty at all.

Corn

Barbeque Corn decreased ammo slot by 5

Babeque Corn decreased damage at long range by 1

OR

Babeque Corn decreased damage by 1

Kernel Corn slighly reduce recoil while moving and shooting regularly without aiming
Less bullet dispersion  when continuing shooting while moving.

(It's a frontline class, need to shoot and running costantly)

PopCorn less ranged damage drop-off at long range.

Deleted, after Damage Upgrade, those classes can stand a chance 

S.Zombies
S.Zombie with Rose time snare nerf has become too oppressive. Some minor changes will make him balanced. Also i think that most of balance should be addressed to Electro Brainz.
The regular has some recoil on his beam and hasn't AoE Electri damage, so is not even as effective as the Electro One.  His presence alone can checkmate a group of defending plants in garden and graveyard

-Turbo Twist Movespeed changes Revert + Armor - Movespeed

Electro Brainz

- Health Nerf 175
- Reduce Beam Damage by 1

- Arc Electric Damage reduce to 4 per tick

-Captain Deadbard

Sharkbite Primary Ranged Weapon Damage Decreased by 10

Sharkbite Secondary Shotgun Damage increased by 3

-Parrot health nerfed to 5

-Parrot Bombs don't explode instantly but have a delay of activations

-Barrel armor reduced from 75 to 66%

-Captain Cannon increased projectile speed of bullet after 15 metres

Imp
This guy HP buff changed the meta all around his-self. While i think in the current state just nerfing his life at 50 will be unfair, overall because in the next patch we'll see more Citron and Rose and his life will be extremely hard, but i think is also option to consider. At the current state his life at 60 could be perfect. but 50 could be good with some minor damage buffs. At the moment is extremely hard to manage bulky enemies like Citrons, Chomper and Corn with the hp buff. Impkata is still useless move and is rarely usen, could see a slighly buff that doesn't imply damage. I suggested some cool things.
If eventually his HP will get reduced to 50 again, i think he should deserve a damage buff to compensate his "high risk high reward" character.

 

-Health Nerf to 50
-Regular Imp Increased damage by 2

-Shrimp Base Damage increased by 1

-Reduce ranged damage dropoff for Z7 Imp

-Make Impkata a move that reward you if you manage to live after you use it. This skill seems a panic button useful only when you go out of ammo. Don't buff his damage, just make the move gives you some kinda of slighly reward when you live after its use, i rarely use this skill in entire matches.

Some suggest for Impkata:
- After scoring a kill you gain a buff for some seconds (attack damage, fire ratio, reload time)

- decreasing the cooldown of your skills

All Star

This guy has been completely replaced by S.Zombie. He need to turn back. Some help on Tackle will solve this.
-Sprint and Super Sprint Tackle cooldown reduced by 10 seconds

Tennis Star: health nerf to 175. Overheats drastically more faster
OR  Health nerf to 150.

Scientists

Same kit, but less impact as an assassin and more as a healer. Increase the cooldown on Warps will make Chemist, Zoologist and Marine less impactful and the decrease cooldown for heals will make them useful anyway. Its pointless to nerf these classes damage since they have no range weapon and will be no reason to play them instead of Paleo.

Archeologist damage buff

-New: You can't warp consecutively before 7 seconds
-Warp Stacking Cooldown increased

-Both Heal Stations cooldown decrease
-Mega Heal Ball slighly decreased cooldown

Foot Soldier

Less Cooldown for Rocket Jump since there is no match with Rocket Leap.
Rocket Leap make his extremely safe in every situation and also can be used consecutively.
Also some buff to Smoke Greande to not suffer too much his Corn's counterpart

-Smoke Grenade slighly damage increased

-Rocket Jump decreased cooldown

Park Ranger slightly nerf  by 1 to his direct shots

Scuba Soldier Direct Hits nerf from 55 to 45.

Centurion slighly less ranged damage drop off at high range (buff)

Tank Commander Health buff +25 (he is clearly underpowered and the fact Scuba completely replaced him, while being not that much Op is a thing to consider.. also he is a "tank" commander, give him more health could sound interesting

Engineer

Increased Stun Grenade duration about 0.25-0.5 seconds

Ac Perry direct hits necessary to freeze: 5