3v3 territory war?

"Skylicus;c-1850881" wrote:

"Kokie;c-1850874" wrote:
For those highly competitive tw guilds complaining of 3v3 and a wall of DR malak teams well guess what? Your opponent has the exact same problem. This 3v3 simply makes it even more competitive which is exactly what I though you wanted. Besides I thought everyone said JKA simply destroys DR/malak so it should be easy :p

So I should be happy that my opponent as well as I can't clear the first two walls? That isn't competition, that is a broken game mode.

If it can be beaten by mirrors can’t you just save your own DRs for offense and avoid the problem?

"Skylicus;c-1850881" wrote:

"Kokie;c-1850874" wrote:
For those highly competitive tw guilds complaining of 3v3 and a wall of DR malak teams well guess what? Your opponent has the exact same problem. This 3v3 simply makes it even more competitive which is exactly what I though you wanted. Besides I thought everyone said JKA simply destroys DR/malak so it should be easy :p

So I should be happy that my opponent as well as I can't clear the first two walls? That isn't competition, that is a broken game mode.

I agree, that's not competition. Competition implies you were able to out plan or motivate your guild better than your opponent. by smashing your face against DR/Malak walls, you will lose participation and motivation quickly

"Liath;c-1850895" wrote:

"Skylicus;c-1850881" wrote:

"Kokie;c-1850874" wrote:
For those highly competitive tw guilds complaining of 3v3 and a wall of DR malak teams well guess what? Your opponent has the exact same problem. This 3v3 simply makes it even more competitive which is exactly what I though you wanted. Besides I thought everyone said JKA simply destroys DR/malak so it should be easy :p

So I should be happy that my opponent as well as I can't clear the first two walls? That isn't competition, that is a broken game mode.

If it can be beaten by mirrors can’t you just save your own DRs for offense and avoid the problem?

Mirrors are mod dependent and even then can be unreliable. It would be strategically bad to count on them as then you are at the whim of RNG rather than your opponent. Similar the the droid shenanigans this last month.

"Liath;c-1850895" wrote:

"Skylicus;c-1850881" wrote:

"Kokie;c-1850874" wrote:
For those highly competitive tw guilds complaining of 3v3 and a wall of DR malak teams well guess what? Your opponent has the exact same problem. This 3v3 simply makes it even more competitive which is exactly what I though you wanted. Besides I thought everyone said JKA simply destroys DR/malak so it should be easy :p

So I should be happy that my opponent as well as I can't clear the first two walls? That isn't competition, that is a broken game mode.

If it can be beaten by mirrors can’t you just save your own DRs for offense and avoid the problem?

No. It's basically the same as the current unfortunate GA. You have a choice:

1. Set DR on defense. If you do this and your opponent does the same, you both probably don't clear that territory. You then plan on being able to beat everything else more efficiently and win on points. If you both set DR and he can clear it and you can't, you lose. If he saves DR for offense, there is still a significant RNG component in winning a DR vs DR fight.

2. Hold DR for offense. If you do this and your opponent does the same, you both have total overkill and it comes down to points. If you do this and your opponent put his on defense, then you still have a significant RNG component in winning, while your opponent doesn't.

Mods pay a big role in mitigating the RNG, so further decisionmaking goes as follows: if you have a slower DR, you should never hold it for attack, because even if your opponent put his DR on defense, you have an uphill RNG fight to win. So a slower DR should always go on defense. However, knowing this, a faster DR has two choices: hold his for offense, and face the slight RNG chance battle, or set his on defense as well, especially given that people don't play perfectly and you might just outright win by his slower DR being on offense and getting messed up by RNG. So you should also set your DR on defense.

In other words, game theory says set DR on defense and then bet on clearing the rest more efficiently. Worst case: you both face a complete gamble on trying to beat DR without your own. Best case: you don't have to worry about DR and he does.

So, no, you cannot just keep DR for offense and call it a day. In TW, you *could* keep some magic percentage of your DRs for offense, and that is exactly where all that preparation that TW leaders do: look at how well modded your opponents DR+malaks are. Look at how many other counters you can "waste" throwing them at a possible full DR wall, etc. etc. And all of this is completely new for 3v3 and has nowhere to be tested, making it a hell of a lot of work. If it's hard to do for GA, imagine trying to do that for a 50v50 guild battle.

"Ikky2win;c-1850876" wrote:

"Kokie;c-1850874" wrote:
For those highly competitive tw guilds complaining of 3v3 and a wall of DR malak teams well guess what? Your opponent has the exact same problem. This 3v3 simply makes it even more competitive which is exactly what I though you wanted. Besides I thought everyone said JKA simply destroys DR/malak so it should be easy :p

Apparently someone hasn’t read the nerf to JKA that was posted yesterday.

Apparently someone hasn’t seen Padme in action yet. We have no idea how Padme/JKA interaction in a 3v3 environment is going to affect DR/Malak teams. Could be a non-issue by the time we get there.

Separate note on the DR/Malak wall - as has been noted by others, why not just only put 25 of yours on defense split across the front if it can only be beaten by mirror and then try to blast through one of your opponents walls? There are options...everyone’s just whining about something new.

I am looking *very* forward to this war. I love 3v3.

"Firebrigade;c-1850930" wrote:

"Ikky2win;c-1850876" wrote:

"Kokie;c-1850874" wrote:
For those highly competitive tw guilds complaining of 3v3 and a wall of DR malak teams well guess what? Your opponent has the exact same problem. This 3v3 simply makes it even more competitive which is exactly what I though you wanted. Besides I thought everyone said JKA simply destroys DR/malak so it should be easy :p

Apparently someone hasn’t read the nerf to JKA that was posted yesterday.

Apparently someone hasn’t seen Padme in action yet. We have no idea how Padme/JKA interaction in a 3v3 environment is going to affect DR/Malak teams. Could be a non-issue by the time we get there.

Separate note on the DR/Malak wall - as has been noted by others, why not just only put 25 of yours on defense split across the front if it can only be beaten by mirror and then try to blast through one of your opponents walls? There are options...everyone’s just whining about something new.

I am looking *very* forward to this war. I love 3v3.

You didn't read the Q and A CG posted for Padme Kit.

SBC: Where does Padmé fit best in the game?
CGF: Padmé is a leader of the Galactic Republic squad and should be very competitive in PvP. Our goal is for her squad to sit alongside Darth Revan (without Malak) and Jedi Knight Revan squads in terms of power level and competitive viability.

"Firebrigade;c-1850930" wrote:

"Ikky2win;c-1850876" wrote:

"Kokie;c-1850874" wrote:
For those highly competitive tw guilds complaining of 3v3 and a wall of DR malak teams well guess what? Your opponent has the exact same problem. This 3v3 simply makes it even more competitive which is exactly what I though you wanted. Besides I thought everyone said JKA simply destroys DR/malak so it should be easy :p

Apparently someone hasn’t read the nerf to JKA that was posted yesterday.

Apparently someone hasn’t seen Padme in action yet. We have no idea how Padme/JKA interaction in a 3v3 environment is going to affect DR/Malak teams. Could be a non-issue by the time we get there.

Separate note on the DR/Malak wall - as has been noted by others, why not just only put 25 of yours on defense split across the front if it can only be beaten by mirror and then try to blast through one of your opponents walls? There are options...everyone’s just whining about something new.

I am looking *very* forward to this war. I love 3v3.

While you are correct we don't have Padme available to us currently, word from the testers is that Padme doesn't have an easy time against DR (w/malak) in 5's and in 3s she stands no chance. Obviously that's from a relatively small test base but I for one am not holding my breath that Padme will affect this at all.

Separate note to your separate note. Did you read the rest of the thread? I've said at least twice and others have as well that we are not complaining about change. We are complaining about about poorly thought out bad change. Saying change is good just because it is change is just flat wrong.

"Acrofales;c-1850923" wrote:

"Liath;c-1850895" wrote:

"Skylicus;c-1850881" wrote:

"Kokie;c-1850874" wrote:
For those highly competitive tw guilds complaining of 3v3 and a wall of DR malak teams well guess what? Your opponent has the exact same problem. This 3v3 simply makes it even more competitive which is exactly what I though you wanted. Besides I thought everyone said JKA simply destroys DR/malak so it should be easy :p

So I should be happy that my opponent as well as I can't clear the first two walls? That isn't competition, that is a broken game mode.

If it can be beaten by mirrors can’t you just save your own DRs for offense and avoid the problem?

No. It's basically the same as the current unfortunate GA. You have a choice:

1. Set DR on defense. If you do this and your opponent does the same, you both probably don't clear that territory. You then plan on being able to beat everything else more efficiently and win on points. If you both set DR and he can clear it and you can't, you lose. If he saves DR for offense, there is still a significant RNG component in winning a DR vs DR fight.

2. Hold DR for offense. If you do this and your opponent does the same, you both have total overkill and it comes down to points. If you do this and your opponent put his on defense, then you still have a significant RNG component in winning, while your opponent doesn't.

Mods pay a big role in mitigating the RNG, so further decisionmaking goes as follows: if you have a slower DR, you should never hold it for attack, because even if your opponent put his DR on defense, you have an uphill RNG fight to win. So a slower DR should always go on defense. However, knowing this, a faster DR has two choices: hold his for offense, and face the slight RNG chance battle, or set his on defense as well, especially given that people don't play perfectly and you might just outright win by his slower DR being on offense and getting messed up by RNG. So you should also set your DR on defense.

In other words, game theory says set DR on defense and then bet on clearing the rest more efficiently. Worst case: you both face a complete gamble on trying to beat DR without your own. Best case: you don't have to worry about DR and he does.

So, no, you cannot just keep DR for offense and call it a day. In TW, you *could* keep some magic percentage of your DRs for offense, and that is exactly where all that preparation that TW leaders do: look at how well modded your opponents DR+malaks are. Look at how many other counters you can "waste" throwing them at a possible full DR wall, etc. etc. And all of this is completely new for 3v3 and has nowhere to be tested, making it a hell of a lot of work. If it's hard to do for GA, imagine trying to do that for a 50v50 guild battle.

It’s not the same as GA because you have some number of DR/Malak that is higher than 1 (and I would imagine in most cases less than 50 but maybe you all live in the 300m GP guild world that doesn’t really exist to me). So there isn’t a binary choice of set on defense or save for offense, you can do a combination, as you acknowledge.

Plus it will depend on the map. We don’t actually know what the map will look like in 3v3 so it’s not clear that you will be able to block off the entire thing with just Malak Teams. There may be more than 50 teams in front territories which allows you to play for the other squads and zones, much like you can with GA. So it’s a bit early to declare the match a stalemate.

Unless they actually add territories (and nothing CG has ever done would lead me to believe they will) 20-25 malaks in the front two zones does the same thing whether its 25 teams per zone or 100.