Are people pretending to not see a real problem in the PVP arena?

"Kyno;c-1536100" wrote:

"gordonjones;c-1536082" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1536032" wrote:

"gordonjones;c-1535715" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1473520" wrote:

"Actionhunk;c-1473371" wrote:
Well the Arena shard I am in has 10 players in my po and they organize on attacking before p.o.
If am am rank1 30 minutes before p.o. I will be attacked non-stop and not be able to attack even if I spend all my time the last 30 minutes resfreshing and hitting enter.


If I can I'll post a video (not sure if I can record that much on my phone but I will try)

All players in the shard chat coordinate on keeping out of top 20. This specific shard chat has 28+ members.

This is organized to a degree that makes the game rather lame. What is the purpose of an arena if it serves to simply give the same crystal mafia a high crystal reward so they can retain a favorable position and not spend too much money in the game.

Make it equal for all. rotate/shuffle shards every 3 months.

The dev team has stated from a technical standpoint they cannot shuffle shards.

Changing that Shard ID value in the database is super duper hard.

Balancing out shards to not overload PO hours, balance player base on a factor that is similar to date started but not (since thats how its done right now) and not devalue the investments of people who have payed, just to name a few factors, are probably more difficult and would need to be considered when talking about a shard shuffle. the tools to examine this and make educated decisions on the entire player base would also be the tools needed to shuffle shards. its not just about moving people.

Those aren’t technical challenges, those are all design challenges. CG has great technical talent, they could easily solve any technical challenge related to shuffling or balancing arena shards.

The “tools to examine” this already exist. Like Tableau or R.

The tools necessary to do this are technical challenges, but anyway, those are their words not mine. I'm just trying to make sure people have the information out there.

The “technical challenges” answer from CG without more details makes me doubt the truthfulness of that answer. I wish CG would just say “Arena is such an important game component to our highest spenders that we’re hesitant to make any changes.”

It’s a shame as PvP Arena is such a stale feature of the game that has hardly changed.

I wish they would create an semi-regular event that was essentially PvP arena wher they could try out new Arena features (faction bonuses, mixing shards, alternative payout schemes, etc.).

An Arena-like special event like this would allow for testing and feedback of new features for Arena without risking upsetting the playerbase. If you found a feature that was universally loved by playerbase and CG alike, you could incorporate it into main arena.

Your pretty much referring to tournaments and they did not work out well

"Darthpedro;c-1536670" wrote:
Your pretty much referring to tournaments and they did not work out well

Tournaments were a major fail, but it’s a shame that instead of learning and trying new things they stopped innovating. I know that there has been a lot of excitement around Arena, but with rotating bonuses for factions or characters.

"gordonjones;c-1536632" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1536100" wrote:

"gordonjones;c-1536082" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1536032" wrote:

"gordonjones;c-1535715" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1473520" wrote:

"Actionhunk;c-1473371" wrote:
Well the Arena shard I am in has 10 players in my po and they organize on attacking before p.o.
If am am rank1 30 minutes before p.o. I will be attacked non-stop and not be able to attack even if I spend all my time the last 30 minutes resfreshing and hitting enter.


If I can I'll post a video (not sure if I can record that much on my phone but I will try)

All players in the shard chat coordinate on keeping out of top 20. This specific shard chat has 28+ members.

This is organized to a degree that makes the game rather lame. What is the purpose of an arena if it serves to simply give the same crystal mafia a high crystal reward so they can retain a favorable position and not spend too much money in the game.

Make it equal for all. rotate/shuffle shards every 3 months.

The dev team has stated from a technical standpoint they cannot shuffle shards.

Changing that Shard ID value in the database is super duper hard.

Balancing out shards to not overload PO hours, balance player base on a factor that is similar to date started but not (since thats how its done right now) and not devalue the investments of people who have payed, just to name a few factors, are probably more difficult and would need to be considered when talking about a shard shuffle. the tools to examine this and make educated decisions on the entire player base would also be the tools needed to shuffle shards. its not just about moving people.

Those aren’t technical challenges, those are all design challenges. CG has great technical talent, they could easily solve any technical challenge related to shuffling or balancing arena shards.

The “tools to examine” this already exist. Like Tableau or R.

The tools necessary to do this are technical challenges, but anyway, those are their words not mine. I'm just trying to make sure people have the information out there.

The “technical challenges” answer from CG without more details makes me doubt the truthfulness of that answer. I wish CG would just say “Arena is such an important game component to our highest spenders that we’re hesitant to make any changes.”

It’s a shame as PvP Arena is such a stale feature of the game that has hardly changed.

I wish they would create an semi-regular event that was essentially PvP arena wher they could try out new Arena features (faction bonuses, mixing shards, alternative payout schemes, etc.).

An Arena-like special event like this would allow for testing and feedback of new features for Arena without risking upsetting the playerbase. If you found a feature that was universally loved by playerbase and CG alike, you could incorporate it into main arena.

The lack of technical knowledge of what they are doing makes me sceptical of your doubts.

The grouping of shards is a very accurate and balanced way to group people in a freemium game. Because $$=time. It allows committed player and $$ players to have an advantage in any guild/full player base content. Preserving this is very important to the health of the game. Solving problems in that system are import too, but it cant have a drastic effect on the over all base of the game like switching shards would.

*skeptical

(love you @Kyno ;))

"Kyno;c-1536720" wrote:

"gordonjones;c-1536632" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1536100" wrote:

"gordonjones;c-1536082" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1536032" wrote:

"gordonjones;c-1535715" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1473520" wrote:

"Actionhunk;c-1473371" wrote:
Well the Arena shard I am in has 10 players in my po and they organize on attacking before p.o.
If am am rank1 30 minutes before p.o. I will be attacked non-stop and not be able to attack even if I spend all my time the last 30 minutes resfreshing and hitting enter.


If I can I'll post a video (not sure if I can record that much on my phone but I will try)

All players in the shard chat coordinate on keeping out of top 20. This specific shard chat has 28+ members.

This is organized to a degree that makes the game rather lame. What is the purpose of an arena if it serves to simply give the same crystal mafia a high crystal reward so they can retain a favorable position and not spend too much money in the game.

Make it equal for all. rotate/shuffle shards every 3 months.

The dev team has stated from a technical standpoint they cannot shuffle shards.

Changing that Shard ID value in the database is super duper hard.

Balancing out shards to not overload PO hours, balance player base on a factor that is similar to date started but not (since thats how its done right now) and not devalue the investments of people who have payed, just to name a few factors, are probably more difficult and would need to be considered when talking about a shard shuffle. the tools to examine this and make educated decisions on the entire player base would also be the tools needed to shuffle shards. its not just about moving people.

Those aren’t technical challenges, those are all design challenges. CG has great technical talent, they could easily solve any technical challenge related to shuffling or balancing arena shards.

The “tools to examine” this already exist. Like Tableau or R.

The tools necessary to do this are technical challenges, but anyway, those are their words not mine. I'm just trying to make sure people have the information out there.

The “technical challenges” answer from CG without more details makes me doubt the truthfulness of that answer. I wish CG would just say “Arena is such an important game component to our highest spenders that we’re hesitant to make any changes.”

It’s a shame as PvP Arena is such a stale feature of the game that has hardly changed.

I wish they would create an semi-regular event that was essentially PvP arena wher they could try out new Arena features (faction bonuses, mixing shards, alternative payout schemes, etc.).

An Arena-like special event like this would allow for testing and feedback of new features for Arena without risking upsetting the playerbase. If you found a feature that was universally loved by playerbase and CG alike, you could incorporate it into main arena.

The lack of technical knowledge of what they are doing makes me sceptical of your doubts.

The grouping of shards is a very accurate and balanced way to group people in a freemium game. Because $$=time. It allows committed player and $$ players to have an advantage in any guild/full player base content. Preserving this is very important to the health of the game. Solving problems in that system are import too, but it cant have a drastic effect on the over all base of the game like switching shards would.

I’ll keep this going because I think it’s an interesting and important discussion, and I think we’re bringing up good counterpoints to each other.

For example, I agree that the time you start playing the game is a metric to match players against. One big issue in the shard I’m in is that our shard, for whatever reason, is stacked with active US Eastern and US Central players. We have about 50 players all trying to move up to top spots within the same 2 hour timeframe. Fast forward 6-9 hours later and we have abour five players in random timezones that have *literally* no competition. They take the number one spot in their timezone everyday, and they never get knocked back. Because they have such an advantage when it comes to crystals, they generally hold rank very well, and can quickly gear up to respond to meta changes. This is not “fair”, as I am competing against 30-40 different people during my payout hous, and some “off timezone” players literally don’t have any competition.

Now, I fully acknowledge that designing a fix for this is difficult (but from a design perspective, not a technical perspective).

Wouldn’t it be great from CG’s perspective to be able to test and see what happens if you reassigned shards so that it was only one timezone per shard? See how the players react. Do they like the change or do they hate it? How does that affect crystal payouts on a macro level? How does that affect players in timezones where the playerbase is small? My suggestion is to create an event they could use to test this. A weeklong event, almost exactly the same as arena (once a day payout for crystals) where they can effectively do A/B testing for new arena features, like mixing up shards.

Now, back to my point. The difficulty in switching up of shards isn’t a technical issue (its probably literally just updating a handful of values for each player in the database, simming Galatic War probably updates more fields in the database). It’s a design and balance issue.

I’m calling the “technical challenges” answer from CG as bogus. This is an important distinction because “technical challenges” could imply “we care about this, but can’t do it even if we wanted to.” A more truthful answer I’d appreciate is something like “We could do this, but are prioritizing our efforts in other areas.”

I admit, my agenda in discussing this topic is to draw more attention to much needed QOL changes to the game dealing with arena (not being able to change timezones after starting the game, figuring out a way to balance whatever CG’s undisclosed interests are in putting payout hours right during dinner time against players real life work-family-life balance, moving out of shards controlled by “mafias” of players).

If players realize this is something that CG would actually address if players voiced their concerns, as opposed to an impossiblility imposed on CG because of technology, we might see some of these changes happen. Multi-sim of daily challenges and Galactic War are good examples of QOL changes driven by players voicing their concerns and pressing CG until they addressed the issues.

I realized the importance of changing my timezone within a week of playing this game and created another account to take advantage of it accordingly. It helps in not just PVP payout, but also when bonus energy and shop refreshes trigger. There are also guides on this very forum that advise doing so and have been here for like 2 years or so. This is also the number 1 tip I give to newbies. For you to start complaining about it now, after 2 years, is pretty much a joke.

"gordonjones;c-1536753" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1536720" wrote:

"gordonjones;c-1536632" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1536100" wrote:

"gordonjones;c-1536082" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1536032" wrote:

"gordonjones;c-1535715" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1473520" wrote:

"Actionhunk;c-1473371" wrote:
Well the Arena shard I am in has 10 players in my po and they organize on attacking before p.o.
If am am rank1 30 minutes before p.o. I will be attacked non-stop and not be able to attack even if I spend all my time the last 30 minutes resfreshing and hitting enter.


If I can I'll post a video (not sure if I can record that much on my phone but I will try)

All players in the shard chat coordinate on keeping out of top 20. This specific shard chat has 28+ members.

This is organized to a degree that makes the game rather lame. What is the purpose of an arena if it serves to simply give the same crystal mafia a high crystal reward so they can retain a favorable position and not spend too much money in the game.

Make it equal for all. rotate/shuffle shards every 3 months.

The dev team has stated from a technical standpoint they cannot shuffle shards.

Changing that Shard ID value in the database is super duper hard.

Balancing out shards to not overload PO hours, balance player base on a factor that is similar to date started but not (since thats how its done right now) and not devalue the investments of people who have payed, just to name a few factors, are probably more difficult and would need to be considered when talking about a shard shuffle. the tools to examine this and make educated decisions on the entire player base would also be the tools needed to shuffle shards. its not just about moving people.

Those aren’t technical challenges, those are all design challenges. CG has great technical talent, they could easily solve any technical challenge related to shuffling or balancing arena shards.

The “tools to examine” this already exist. Like Tableau or R.

The tools necessary to do this are technical challenges, but anyway, those are their words not mine. I'm just trying to make sure people have the information out there.

The “technical challenges” answer from CG without more details makes me doubt the truthfulness of that answer. I wish CG would just say “Arena is such an important game component to our highest spenders that we’re hesitant to make any changes.”

It’s a shame as PvP Arena is such a stale feature of the game that has hardly changed.

I wish they would create an semi-regular event that was essentially PvP arena wher they could try out new Arena features (faction bonuses, mixing shards, alternative payout schemes, etc.).

An Arena-like special event like this would allow for testing and feedback of new features for Arena without risking upsetting the playerbase. If you found a feature that was universally loved by playerbase and CG alike, you could incorporate it into main arena.

The lack of technical knowledge of what they are doing makes me sceptical of your doubts.

The grouping of shards is a very accurate and balanced way to group people in a freemium game. Because $$=time. It allows committed player and $$ players to have an advantage in any guild/full player base content. Preserving this is very important to the health of the game. Solving problems in that system are import too, but it cant have a drastic effect on the over all base of the game like switching shards would.

I’ll keep this going because I think it’s an interesting and important discussion, and I think we’re bringing up good counterpoints to each other.

For example, I agree that the time you start playing the game is a metric to match players against. One big issue in the shard I’m in is that our shard, for whatever reason, is stacked with active US Eastern and US Central players. We have about 50 players all trying to move up to top spots within the same 2 hour timeframe. Fast forward 6-9 hours later and we have abour five players in random timezones that have *literally* no competition. They take the number one spot in their timezone everyday, and they never get knocked back. Because they have such an advantage when it comes to crystals, they generally hold rank very well, and can quickly gear up to respond to meta changes. This is not “fair”, as I am competing against 30-40 different people during my payout hous, and some “off timezone” players literally don’t have any competition.

Now, I fully acknowledge that designing a fix for this is difficult (but from a design perspective, not a technical perspective).

Wouldn’t it be great from CG’s perspective to be able to test and see what happens if you reassigned shards so that it was only one timezone per shard? See how the players react. Do they like the change or do they hate it? How does that affect crystal payouts on a macro level? How does that affect players in timezones where the playerbase is small? My suggestion is to create an event they could use to test this. A weeklong event, almost exactly the same as arena (once a day payout for crystals) where they can effectively do A/B testing for new arena features, like mixing up shards.

Now, back to my point. The difficulty in switching up of shards isn’t a technical issue (its probably literally just updating a handful of values for each player in the database, simming Galatic War probably updates more fields in the database). It’s a design and balance issue.

I’m calling the “technical challenges” answer from CG as bogus. This is an important distinction because “technical challenges” could imply “we care about this, but can’t do it even if we wanted to.” A more truthful answer I’d appreciate is something like “We could do this, but are prioritizing our efforts in other areas.”

I admit, my agenda in discussing this topic is to draw more attention to much needed QOL changes to the game dealing with arena (not being able to change timezones after starting the game, figuring out a way to balance whatever CG’s undisclosed interests are in putting payout hours right during dinner time against players real life work-family-life balance, moving out of shards controlled by “mafias” of players).

If players realize this is something that CG would actually address if players voiced their concerns, as opposed to an impossiblility imposed on CG because of technology, we might see some of these changes happen. Multi-sim of daily challenges and Galactic War are good examples of QOL changes driven by players voicing their concerns and pressing CG until they addressed the issues.

yes I understand the PO situation and the people that have lighter hours, but when 12 people move up for one hour, then 5 the next, and a few others throughout the day. the people with no one in their PO, will still have to be able to beat those teams. its not like they get a hand out, but yes they do have it a little easier.

I am told by a programmer i work with that anything is possible. If i walk into his office and say i need a system that will sort X,Y, and Z based on parameters A,B,and C. I'm sure he could do it, but it is easy for me to design this on paper, building the tools and algorithms that do it (the technical side) is no that simple. The actual coded system that would be able to dynamically reassign the shards, could be technically "impossible" or also could take 6 months of a teams time to get it to where they want, and destroy the content timeline. (thats bad for the health of the game too). To be able to make this happen the algorithm could be "technically impossible" and just because you think a certain answer is "the answer" doesn't make it true.

They have already stated they are looking at the PO hour adjustment, so no worries. but we have no idea what the end result will be. Also it will not involve getting away from your shard.

"Huatimus;c-1536892" wrote:
I realized the importance of changing my timezone within a week of playing this game and created another account to take advantage of it accordingly. It helps in not just PVP payout, but also when bonus energy and shop refreshes trigger. There are also guides on this very forum that advise doing so and have been here for like 2 years or so. This is also the number 1 tip I give to newbies. For you to start complaining about it now, after 2 years, is pretty much a joke.

Still, many people often find a need to change their timezone after starting the game, like if they move to a new city in a different timezone or experience a change in their work/school schedules.

Yep, arena is the main stress factor of the game. That is because it is the most important area of the game, since this is where your crystal comes from. Although it seems the developers ignore all the issues related to arena. The payout time is stupid. The fact that people can talk to each other, even if not in the same guild, they can find each other and cooperate and rule the high ranks is a serious issue. I also suggested to remove the payout and be rewarded in some other way. Getting only 10 fights/day and give a reward based on the win/loss ratio of the 10 fights would be a lot better, and no more ranks. You won 10/10 get highest reward you won 0/10 get lowest reward. There would be no more cooperation and exploit. This could be done, but it will never be. Because people who are in top don`t need to buy crystals for money (low number) only those who are lower in ranks(high number). So basically if you rework the system, and make it reward you based on 10 fights win/loss ratio and no more ranking that would probably be better for those who cannot make it to the top 20 but would make CG lose money, since you won`t buy that many crystals anymore.